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Author Topic: Zephyr Derails
yukon11
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I just heard on the radio (9AM news, PDT, 8/26) that the California Zephyr derailed in Nebraska. Apparently, no injuries. No details, yet.

(Update). I just heard there were some minor injuries with a few people taken to the hospital. They still say no serious injuries.

Richard

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Gilbert B Norman
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This coverage by the Omaha ABC News outlet appears the most extensive available at this time:

http://www.ketv.com/r/28986405/detail.html

The train involved was Eastbound #6(24) and obviously was "way late" already. "Murphy's Law" lest we forget.

The linked ABC News report states the collision was with "some equipment on the tracks to which all I can say regarding that is "oh, oh".

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notelvis
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I wonder on how many days so far in 2011 that at least one Amtrak train somewhere has failed to reach it's final destination (or even originate) due to an accident, a flood, or the threat of an earthquake bearing down as is the case this weekend for most everything south of Washington, DC?

I would bet that the number would be significantly higher than normal.

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David Pressley

Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!

Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes.

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ehbowen
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quote:
Originally posted by notelvis:

I would bet that the number would be significantly higher than normal.

That number is classified cosmic; I could tell you but then I'd have to shoot you [Big Grin] .

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--------Eric H. Bowen

Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past!

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Gilbert B Norman
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Staff coverage by the Omaha World Herald has established that the object with which the train collided was a contractor's boom crane that was demolishing a grain elevator and extended over the tracks:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110826/NEWS01/110829736/1007

The apparent explanation from the contractor: "we didn't know a train was coming".

Oh well, another "blown" insurance policy; at least there's that as had the collision been with a piece of BNSF track machinery (as I acknowledge I incorrectly thought earlier), absent the high-standard of "gross negligence", self-indemnification ("no-fault") would have governed.

Of interest from the website, it appears that #5(26) is annulled; so no apparent chance of a detour via the Overland Route.

Finally, For NRHS Members here, the photo appearing on Page 19 of Summer Bulletin certainly has relevance to this discussion.

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George Harris
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Even when they were not fouling the main track, I would suspect that they were working within the right of way and were doing it without permission. If done with permission of BNSF, surely they were supposed to have had a flagman. There should have been a bulletin for the train crews as well. These guys probably broke almost every safety rule in the book. Probably did know there even was a book.

The first thing I leared about railroad safety ran something like this: "Expect a train at any time on any track moving at or in excess of the maximum allowable speed." If you keep this in mind many of the rest concerning safety around track take care of themselves.

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smitty195
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This train got a very late start out of the gate (Emeryville). I heard that it came in around 5:30 that morning (which is 12+ hours late). Not a good trip to be an AmPassenger on.
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Railroad Bob
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That's right, George- taken straight from the GCOR (mid '80s) the Rule K wording was: "Employes must expect the movement of trains, engines, cars or other movable equipment at any time, on any track, in either direction."

Another catch-all Rule (that could protect both Management and employes) was #108:

SAFE COURSE: In case of doubt or uncertainty, the safe course must be taken.

The current GCOR may have assigned different numbers; I'm sure they're still in there. My old Rules Instructor used to say these Rules were "written in blood."

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HopefulRailUser
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Just watched a program on local PBS about the Zephyr, the original one, the Silver Thread Through the West. Great show, interesting discussion of the politics involved in the dissolution too.

I now know what Henry was talking about when he asked "did anyone ever date a Zephyrette?" And I think I need to read Henry's book.

They mentioned that one of the dome cars was called the Silver Lariat. Is this the same private car that runs around the west coast here? And did I ride in any of those domes when I took the Canadian across Canada a few years ago?

--------------------
Vicki in usually sunny Southern California

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smitty195
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Yes regarding the Silver Lariat. That car is available for charter here:

http://www.calzephyrrailcar.com/California_Zephyr_Railcar_Charters/Welcome.html

He is based in Oakland, and also charters the Silver Rapids sleeper and the Silver Solarium round-end dome/lounge/sleeper. I've ridden on these cars several times and it's always a good time. One of these days if I hit a jackpot or win the lottery, I'm going to charter all three for a round-the-country tour!

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Gilbert B Norman
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The Omaha World Herald is presently offering a comprehensive slide show of the incident's scene:

http://odc.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=5002&p=2792#photo-showcase-amtrak-train-derailment

Photos are attributed to the (Weekly) Benkleman Post and News Chronicle.

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Vincent206
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Looking at the photo of the locomotive, is that a video camera in the left/fireman's window? If so, that should be some interesting footage.
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smitty195
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Yup...all Amtrak P-42's (and maybe more--I don't know about east coast stuff) have video cameras in them. I'm sure that eventually the footage will be "leaked" by someone, but I wouldn't anticipate it right away. Usually someone leaks it about a year after the incident.
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Gilbert B Norman
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I first learned privately that the contractor's crane boom was fouling the BNSF Right of Way. TRAINS Newswire now confirms this:

Subscription required

Brief passage:

  • Earlier reports indicated the train had struck an “agricultural vehicle.” That vehicle turns out to have been a crane mounted on wheels that was tearing down an aging grain elevator at Doane. Two workers in the crane’s boom were removing metal siding from the elevator when the crane fell over, laying its boom across BNSF’s Denver-Lincoln, Neb., main line. The eastbound Zephyr then struck it. It’s not yet clear how much time elapsed between the crane’s collapse and the train strike, or what attempts were made to alert the railroad to the hazard.

    A source with knowledge of the situation said the crane was not in compliance with the law at the time, and had gone too long without a safety inspection. He added that investigators were unable to locate the crane’s operator for some time after the wreck.
I have further learned that the contractor was working in the proximity of railroad property without any kind of Permit to do so, and that as a result, there was no 'Flag' protection (for those here who "just ride trains", Flag means a Rules Qualified employee - generally a Conductor or Brakeman - equipped with a radio and fuesees whose duties are to protect all trains from obstructions at a worksite).

Naturally, it will be a "hang it all" on some hapless local yokel contractor whose idea of legal representation is 1-800-A-LAWYER, but will BNSF get off the hook? Some party could contend that 'BNSF should have known'. That railroads essentially operate today without any 'boots on the ground' no doubt will be a factor. When I started "railroadin for a livin", the BN had an agent at Benkleman and who would have known, just by frequenting the local coffee house that the 'Farmer's Co-Op' was going to chop down their elevator, and 'Barney's doin' it on the side for cash'. There is also of course the possibility that a Permit was duly applied for but BNSF "lost it'.

While I'm sure the NTSB will "find something' to hang on Amtrak (resulting in the loss of some passenger convenience or amenity), there really won't be too much. However Amtrak, under self-indemnification, will be stuck with most of the claims. The only "out' is Gross Negligence, but considering that Crescent City to my knowledge did not rise to that level against CSX (Bayou Canot was mostly attributed to the "lost" towboat), I doubt if such will be the case at Benkleman (or Doane, or Max, perchance? sure wish they'd pin this down as transport incidents are customarily known by their geographic location).

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Vincent206
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Deep pockets will pay, but what about the property owner where the grain elevator is located? Attorneys for Amtrak and BNSF will likely contend that the property owner is responsible for the actions of the crew that was tearing down the elevator.
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notelvis
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quote:
Originally posted by Vincent206:
Deep pockets will pay, but what about the property owner where the grain elevator is located? Attorneys for Amtrak and BNSF will likely contend that the property owner is responsible for the actions of the crew that was tearing down the elevator.

It would seem that these are good times to be an attorney.

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David Pressley

Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!

Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes.

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Railroad Bob
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quote:
Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:
It’s not yet clear how much time elapsed between the crane’s collapse and the train strike, or what attempts were made to alert the railroad to the hazard.

I have further learned that the contractor was working in the proximity of railroad property without any kind of Permit to do so, and that as a result, there was no 'Flag' protection (for those here who "just ride trains", Flag means a Rules Qualified employee - generally a Conductor or Brakeman - equipped with a radio and fuesees whose duties are to protect all trains from obstructions at a worksite).
[/QB]

Hi guys, I've been thinking about this a little bit--and have got to wondering why the "official BNSF Emergency" number wasn't called? This number is stenciled on just about every silver signal box in the system, and I believe the number is 800-832-5452. If this was done, don't you think the Dispatcher controlling that Zephyr could have easily called the head end and got the train stopped? I know, I know- armchair quarterbacking, but still there is another action that might have protected the train-- if the crane crew sent or drove a man a mile east and west of the blockage and gave him a piece of red cloth to wave horizontally while standing in the gauge and in view of the Amtrak engineer-- that engineer would have STOPPED the passenger train...or any other freight train that might have come from the other direction.

I know, none of this happened, and maybe the time interval was too short for these actions. But the phone call to the toll free BNSF emergency number would have taken about 2 minutes.

Just sayin.'

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RR4me
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RRBob, this would assume some measure of smarts from the crane workers. All conjecture, but we have an un-inspected crane, with two people working "in the crane's boom", and the thing fell over. I have my doubts as to their ability to do much thinking at all, if they weren't hurt when the thing fell over.
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George Harris
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Stupidity is its own reward.
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Gilbert B Norman
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I trust others are aware that 5-6, Zephyr, has been annulled CHI-DEN for the entire month of September. It continues to operate DEN-EMY.

No doubt that the subject incident of this topic reportedly warranted some "CSI", but a whole month? I'm certain other factors as the flooding affecting the entire region (I understand the bridge at Pacific Jct is "out') and that Amtrak needs time to return the set of equipment lost to service. From the photos released of the scene, it would appear that all of the equipment could be returned to service. Fortunately, these days Amtrak apparently has funds to "fix as you go" with equipment, save of course damage sustained rising to the level of that to Bagg-Dorm and Coach certainly lost at Trinity.

However, with no apparent hue and cry over a month-long annulment of all rail service between Galesburg and Denver, one must question the relevance of the Zephyr or, for that matter, any LD train in the 21st Century.

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George Harris
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I thought Chicago-Denver was the most heavily traveled leg of the train.

I think they have been having so much trouble getting anywhere close to schedule they decided to, temporarily at least, throw in the towel. Seems that this is how Amtrak got themselves out fo the Sunset East, although I would be really surprised if that happened here.

way back when, that is Thanksgiving to early December 1971 I rode this train from Oakland to Chicago, and I remeber that the train length east of Denver was about twice what it was west of Denber. At that time, the train was still on UP across Wyoming, went to Cheyenne and was pulled backward between Cheyenne and Denver. This is on my way back home from Nam. At that time the military was using charter services to do this with "airlines" you had never heard of and hoped to never see again. They asked each of us how much we weighted when we boarded, spent 8 hours for what was supposed to be a one hour fueling stop in Japan. We could look out and see that they had the cover off one of the engines. Then after we took off the pilot come on the intercom and announced that we would ATTEMPT a nonstop flight to Travis AFB. California. He did make it. At that point I understood my Grandmother's comment that at the end of WW2 they did not consider their boys home until they walked in the door. Why? Because of so many transport accidents.

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Ocala Mike
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George, things must have really deteriorated between, say, 1964 and 1971. When I joined the USAF (1964), we flew down to San Antonio on a Branniff charter from JFK. Believe the entire plane was full of airmen and officer trainees.

Later, circa 1966-1967, trip to and from Korea was via "red-tail" (Northwest charters). I also came home from Korea mid-tour on a military "hop".
This would have been Kimpo to Elmendorf to Travis via C-135, the military version of the 707. Got a "cab ride" in that too: cockpit crew let me handle the controls for a few minutes, even though I was just a "ground-pounder" 1st Lt. communications officer.

Still remember coming into Travis over San Francisco at dawn; beautiful sight.

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notelvis
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Wonder if they're running a condensed consist for the Denver-Emeryville service. I can't imagine that they would be able to sustain the same level of ridership.

--------------------
David Pressley

Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!

Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes.

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palmland
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Here is an excerpt from today's Trains Newswire on how Amtrak is handling Chicago-Denver passengers to connect with the truncated CZ that runs Denver-Emeryville.

"Amtrak now directs Chicago-Denver passengers to board the Chief for a 3 p.m. departure from Chicago Union Station and an arrival at Raton at 10:56 a.m. the next day. The Denver bus connection leaves Raton at 5 p.m. and arrives in Denver at 9:05 p.m. Denver-Chicago passengers board a bus that leaves Denver at 5:35 a.m. and arrives in Raton at 10:20 a.m. The Chief leaves Raton for Chicago at 4:50 p.m."

Now if Amtrak was serious about maintaining LD service, they would have worked with BNSF to have a condensed CZ added to the SWC to LaJunta where it would take the BNSF route on into Denver then west. Since apparently the only reason to not run it now is due to BNSF congestion, I'll bet BNSF would have agreed to this short detour move. Running time from Chicago to LaJunta is almost identical to Chicago to Denver. I'm sure the running time for the 180 rail miles LaJunta to Denver would have been a lot faster then this unpleasant bus connection, especially with the all day wait in Raton.

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George Harris
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quote:
Originally posted by palmland:
I'm sure the running time for the 180 rail miles LaJunta to Denver would have been a lot faster then this unpleasant bus connection, especially with the all day wait in Raton.

Nope.

Could probably do a reasonably fast run to Pueblo, but beyond that watching paint dry would be faster. This is the UPRR/BNSF joint line. It is loaded with coal trains, has a long grade and lots of curves.

Setting up a dedicated bus would seem to be a good idea rather than just putting whatever is already there in the book, and with any sort of promotion at all, it would seem likely that a dedicated bus, possible two could be filled.

You would be in something analagous to the Los Angeles - Bakersfield buses, which works reasonably well. Not great, but the best that can be done when the alternate is a 4 plus hour run on a heavily congested line.

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Gilbert B Norman
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While I could have had a better view of #3(6) today, I observed three 32XXX Sleepers in consist as well as to my best knowledge a 390XX Dorm. If there are three revenue Sleeper lines, then I guess Amtrak is making efforts to accommodate some of the displaced passengers offering, as example, CHI-3-LAX-11-EMY routings.

Regarding dedicated Denver-Raton highway transportation (probably a hotel courtesy van would suffice) "for the duration", the problem is that any charter Amtrak could arrange would originate out of Denver. This means the equipment would essentially deadhead to Raton to handle passengers arriving on #3 and thence same for those departing on #4. All told simply too costly to consider.

Have fun at The Rat while waiting on The Pooch (oh, but for those who "can't be bothered' with that hassle, Hertz has an outlet in Raton).

Addendum (edit): Observed #3(8) with THREE line Sleepers and a T-Dorm.

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palmland
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I guess what I am suggesting is that whatever the equipment is now on the CZ would be combined with the SWC and split at LaJunta for the run to the west coast. The train would still be a heck of a lot shorter than AT.

Sure George, the line is stacked with coal trains, but even following the markers of one at 40mph would beat the present roundabout plan via Raton since it takes almost 3 hours to get to Raton from LaJunta and then a fun bus ride, even if a dedicated bus from Raton.

Yes if Amtrak got creative and ran buses from LaJunta that would be faster. Passengers love to get off a train on to a bus than back on a train. Why not do it right.

Matter of fact even though probably 4 hours longer, if Amtrak was into serious cost cutting mode down the road, they would save a lot of train miles by having a combined train to LaJunta. And not a bad swap for BNSF to get the CZ off their tracks for the 1000 miles or so Chi-Den in return for another dispatcher headache for the 120 miles into Denver from Pueblo.

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