RAILforum: Sunset Limited

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Posted by Genesis803 (Member # 122) on :

I am writing to address the needs of the Sunset Limited.I understand Amtrak’s financial difficulties and limitations and I feel that they are doing a great job keeping on the path to self-sufficiency. However one area of improvement I strongly recommend is Amtrak’s Sunset Limited.

The Sunset Limited is Amtrak’s longest train route and therefor has the greatest potential over other long-distance trains. In a recent press release Amtrak claims that the Sunset Limited costs $8 million a year but if it were eliminated, Amtrak would loose $9 million a year in connecting passengers. I believe that a big reason the Sunset Limited is one of Amtrak’s worst performing trains financially is because it is one of few Amtrak trains that isn’t daily.

The Texas Eagle is the perfect example. After near elimination in 1997, the train was increased to daily service and is now highly profitable. The Empire Builder, California Zephyr, Crescent, and City of New Orleans all increased revenue when they increased frequency. When is it going to be the Sunset Limited’s turn?

I understand Amtrak does not have enough Superliners for a daily Sunset Limited. Nor does it have the money to order new Superliners. What Amtrak does have is older Heritage cars it could easily refurbish and Amfleet cars released from San Diegan and Mertroliner services that could be placed on the Cardinal, which could then also become daily, and its Superliners used for Sunset Limited service. Heritage and Amfleet cars could also replace Superliners and Hi-Levels used on the Kentucky Cardinal and Heartland Flyer to allow them to be used in Sunset service. The Sunset Limited could also operate with fewer cars per train. I am sure there are other ways adjustments could be made in order for the Sunset Limited to become daily.

The Sunset Limited has the potential for its mail and express business to be outstanding. Especially once it is rerouted through Dallas/Ft. Worth. With out a doubt many shippers would take advantage of coast-to-coast service in 3 days. This would cover many expenses for operating the train.

I rarely encounter an on-time Sunset Limited. This not only hurts passenger revenue for the Sunset but it also gives people the impression that all Amtrak trains normally run as late as the Sunset Limited does. I rarely hear positive comments about Amtrak from locals including the newspaper which has run several stories about the Sunset’s tardiness.

The Sunset Limited is a beautiful and historic route that needs to be used to its potential. I appreciate the efforts Amtrak has taken to improve the Sunset like future plans of rerouting it through Dallas/Ft. Worth. Let me know what you think.

[This message has been edited by Genesis803 (edited 10-23-2000).]

Posted by reggierail (Member # 26) on :

I totally agree that the Sunset should be run daily & that would really make the train a lot better. I'd also like to see the Cardinal return to it's route through New York & going single level would allow that. Ijust returned Sunday from a trip on the Sunset from Orlando with a 2 day stopover in New Orleans & arrived 4&1/2 hours late into LAX. It would have been an hour later if it hadn't been for the hour we gained from daylight savings time. We were involved in a crossing accident near Lafayette, LA. which accounted for most of the delay. Yours Reggie

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Posted by MLC (Member # 58) on :

I don't think any of the long distance trains you mention are "profitable". What happened a few years ago is that AMTRAK hired a consultant to recommend methods to reduce passenger train deficits. His advice was to reduce service from daily to 3 or 4 times a week, and maintained that revenue would stay the same. Instead revenue decreased in proportion to train frequency. AMTRAK has since retored most of these trains to daily service, with a correspondiong rise in revenues. None however, cover their direct operating costs.

This is one of the major mind-set mistakes that AMTRAK and the US Congress has made. No publically operated passenger service in the world (and thatincludes Japan and Europe) covers its costs, but AMTRAK is expected to. As long as the profit mindset is maintained, AMTRAK will limp along with minimal subsidies, and develop mail and express contracts that begat such embarassing trains as the Kentucky Cardinal, Pennsylvanian, and the Janesville Flyer which are designed to carry mail and express and only incidentally passengers. Instead, the service should be tailored to carrying passengers, with passenger revenues enhanced or supplemented with mail and express.

Posted by John B. Bredin (Member # 109) on :

Why are the Kentucky Cardinal and the Pennsylvanian embarrasments?

I understand the derision some have for the Pennsylvanian because of the times it serves Chicago and Philadelphia, leaving in the 6am hour and arriving in the 12am hour in both directions. But Chicago and Philadelphia aren't the only major stations on that line. Look on the National Timetable for the train times at Toledo, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh. With the possible exception of the westbound Lake Shore Limited at Toledo (arr. 7:04am, dep. 7:24am), all the trains that serve these important stations are at absolutely ungodly hours (3am!), with the notable exception of the Pennsylvanian. The Skyline Connection looks like it will serve these stations plus Chicago at decent times, but it's not running yet.

As for the Kentucky Cardinal, Louisville is a decent-sized city. The KC stops for now on the other side of the river, but hundreds of thousands of dollars are being spent on extending it to Louisville Union Station. And there are plans to eventually extend the KC to Nashville. Yes the train runs on bad track and takes 12 hours to traverse 302 miles. But Amtrak has made lemonade out of lemons by scheduling the train to leave either terminal late in the evening and arrive at the other terminal in the morning. While the train had a sleeper, it was well-booked, and the all-night running made the train useable by business people -- no "lost" time in travel, and no need to book hotel rooms. Admittedly, the KC is an embarrasment as a coach-only train with all-night running, but IIRC it just got its sleeper back over the weekend.

Posted by T. Richards (Member # 244) on :

You are absolutely right about the Sunset; it is the only train that comes through my hometown of Pensacola, FL. It comes through at odd hours, with the result being that many people are unaware of an Amtrak presence here. Those that do find out about it and use it are likely to board as much as 8 hours late, usually due to the policies of the local host RR, CSX. I have ridden it, and I had the time of my life, though the closest it came to being on time was on the second trip when it was *only* 2 hours late (coming from the east; it hadn't even left Florida and it was already 2 hours late!!!) If the Sunset were daily, and at least it could come at a reasonable hour on some days, patronage would surely increase. Also, as a side note, this part of the Gulf Coast needs some sort of Northbound service, and not a bus to the Crescent, either. A Railcar to Mobile or Atmore wouldn't be so bad, and a connection here would be a huge convenience, especially if it went through Atlanta.