posted
I've browsed the boards but haven't seen this question. I am looking to take a "going where I feel like it, when I feel like it" type of trip. I have racked up so many miles flying for work, I don't want to EVER see the inside of another airport. As such, I have visited every major city in North America, what I would like to do now is visit the "little places" in between. I notice a lot of people on here have a lot of fun planning itineraries, but what I want is to have no plan... just go with the rails. That being said, my body is too old to spend every night sleeping in coach (last time I set foot on a train was the GN EB back in the sixties).
I was thinking of getting a North America Rail Pass getting a roomette on the Empire Builder to Chicago and sort of play it by ear from there.
My questions are;
1) Is this tough to do with a rail pass, or am i simply out of my mind?
2) Can you simply walk up to the ticket agent in any city and just get a ticket for the next train?
3) How tough, and expensive, is it to upgrade to a sleeper at the last minute on overnight routes?
4) If the urge strikes me, can I simply leave the train before my ticketed stop without Amtrak having a fit later? (P.S. if you do this on an airline they have a MAJOR fit)
I have traveled significantly on other modes of transport so I really have no problem with "things happening", so if things don't go right all the time that is part of the adventure. What I don't want is to set myself up for failure by having very limited options or spend every night sleeping in coach.
Any input that anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I've aleady learned a lot, and have enjoyed, reading these boards.
Posts: 1 | From: N Idaho | Registered: Jan 2006
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I'm surprised nobody has replied to your posting yet.
I actually bought a North American Rail Pass a few years ago and found it a very affordable way to visit friends and family all over the east coast. I traveled in coach and it was exhausting, but if I knew then what I know now, I could have made it a much more comfortable journey.
There are some things you need to be aware of, however.
1) This is not a Eurail Pass and you can't play it by ear. You need to work out every leg of your journey in advance. If you are going to visit a lot of places, you are going to have a pretty thick wad of tickets.
2) I see no reason why you can't get off the train before you reach your ticketed stop. I would definitely discuss this with Amtrak and inform the conductor about your intentions, but I can't imagine why this would be a problem. Don't expect to get back on the train where you got off, tho. You will probably have to reboard the train on the next leg of your journey.
3) Upgrading to a sleeper? I don't see why not, if there is room. Don't count on there being room, tho. Sleepers are popular and I think supply and demand will dictate the price. You may just want to talk to an agent and see if you can simply "buy a sleeper" without having to pay for the ticket.
If your body is indeed old and worse for wear, I don't think Amtrak would mind giving you seats in the lower level reserved portion of the double decker superliners (popularly known as the handicapped area). Although they are not sleepers, they are very private and comfortable. If you eat every meal in the diner and get to know your fellow passengers, you may find that coach isn't all that bad.
The most important thing is to get off the train from time to time and spend a few days or so with friends and/or family before continuing your journeys. Train travel can be exhausting at times.
Best of luck. I don't think you are out of your mind.
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I've used the USA Rail Pass several times before. It's the same kind of deal - coach travel included, sleepers extra, for a certain time period and area.
1 and 2. It's easy to do - in theory. If space were available then it's just a case of showing the pass and your ID, and getting a ticket. This can be done at the station in minutes - within minutes of departure time if necessary. HOWEVER, space is not always available. Pick your travel period carefully - avoid holidays, August, etc.
3. It's supposed to be cheaper to buy-on-board, but on many trains you'd be very lucky to find space. It also relies on the conductor actually wanting to sell it to you. It sounds crazy but my brother and I tried to upgrade, knowing in advance from the sleeping car attendant that space was available, and the conductor simply couldn't be bothered so he said no!
4. You can, but advise a crew member. They might come looking for you if they don't see you disembark, causing delay to other passengers. Similarly, if you intend to board down the line from your scheduled departure point, advise the station agent - especially if you have a sleeper reserved, as it could be treated as a "no-show".
As there are no change fees, I'd suggest getting tickets for your journey in advance, based on what you think you *might* be doing. Then, if you change your mind halfway through the trip, see if you can change the ticket. If you can't change the ticket then you're not stranded.
Hope it all goes well.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Bear in mind that wanderer lives in Idaho and you live in the UK. Americans (US citizens and Canadians) are not issued a "pass" like you were.
The rules are much different for foreigners visiting and traveling within the USA than for those of us who actually live here: I think this is so unfair.
As a matter of fact, I think that the rules are much more favorable for you foreigners. The pricing is better and you are not required to make a mandatory stopover in Canada.
Cordially,
Chuck
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Perhaps I didn't explain it too well, but essentially the *procedures* for obtaining tickets are pretty much the same once you have the pass. Granted, there are different conditions on the two passes, but they both allow virtually unlimited coach travel within certain areas and timeframes.
Yes, it is cheaper for us foreigners, just like North Americans can get cheaper European rail passes than Europeans.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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You express yourself both eloquently and politely. You give your fellow countrymen a good name and I am glad of the enduring friendship that exists between your country and mine.
What is at issue in this discussion (I think) is how easily one can obtain tickets after one has obtained the North American Rail Pass.
My experience has been that a US Citizen or Canadian needs to buy their tickets well in advance of their journey. They cannot go to the station with their pass and simply ask to go somewhere.
There are other subtle differences between your version of the North American Rail Pass and the abominable thing they sell to us. I was trying to clarify the situation for all our faithful readers, however I gave up after being put on hold for 40 minutes.
The number that handles such affairs is:
1-800-722-6137
The regular Amtrak agents really don't have a clue.
I give up.
Cheers
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
"Play it by ear" is my favorite way to travel, but I don't know how much flexibility the rules allow. You may have to commit to your stopover points, but you could choose some multiple day stopover points with enough possibilities for adventure in many directions.
The Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, and California Zephyr, in that order, would be the best bet for good equipment and reliability to make your journey more enjoyable.
Some smaller town western stopovers I might recommend are: 1. Flagstaff or Williams and the Grand Canyon. 2. Glenwood Springs, CO. 3. Albuquerque and/or Lamy/Santa Fe. 4. Eugene, OR. 5. Sacramento (train museum). 6. Reno or Truckee. All have surrounding scenery, convenient rental cars, and things to see within walking distance. The train arrival times are also convenient for an overnight stay. (I would put Whitefish and Glacier at the top of the list, but that sounds like your home territory.)
Since the North American Rail Pass must include a stopover in Canada, I would think a Canadian transcontinental leg would be a relative bargain.
The pass costs considerably less in non-summer months, so May might be the best month to get the most daylight scenery for the least money. Off-season might also be the best chance to buy a roomette on board.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Perhaps to briefly answer Wanderer, you can purchase almost unlimited number of coach seats on most Amtrak and Via trains. There are some exceptions such as the Acela and certain other restrictions. I have purchased many North America Rail Passes, and they are a good deal, and you can purchase sleeper accomodation at any time prior to train departure assuming such space is available. Unlike a European rail passes, you cannot just board the train with a pass, you must first obtain a ticket. As for upgrading while on board, I'm not sure you can do that with a pass, besides you take quite a risk that sleeper space will be available at the last moment. I have always purchased my sleeper space long before boarding the train. As well you are supposed to take one journey in Canada and another in the USA. But it is not necessary that you actually take the trip. You could use the pass only in one country or the other provided you purchased a ticket for a train journey in both countries. As well if you wanted to leave the train before the end of your journey, that is no problem although you may want to inform the conductor or other train staff so they don't think you missed the train.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
On the trainweb home page there is now a blog from someone currently touring North America using the railpass. It is under "What's New at Trainweb" as "Whistle Stop - Around the Continent in 30 Days !". The direct link is whistlestop30.blogspot.com/
You have to start at the bottom to read about his journey from the beginning, but he talks about how he was helped obtaining his railpass, and what some of the restrictions were. It sounds as if he could change his plans as he pleased. He also lists a railpass only phone number.
He is currently in Bakersfield on his way from San Antonio to Nova Scotia.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
The link in the last posting made it clear that in case of an emergency or a change of itinery (except I guess for foreigners holding their own unique version of the pass), those nice people at the rail pass center work bankers hours and are extremely difficult to get a hold of.
An offhand comment was made by our English friend that you need to make reservations for a Canadian leg of the trip but you don't have to take it. I would like to emphasize that our English friend is not expressing the established policy of the North American Rail Pass. He may have gotten away with such behavior, but I think it's somewhat unethical of him to encourage others to follow his lead.
Furthermore, there may be consequences to not fulfilling one's obligations to the pass. Amtrak's stated policy is that you *must* visit Canada.
Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
By "our English friend" I assumed you meant me, but I made no such comment - but royaltrain did. Perhaps he's English as well - I can't find a location in his profile.
In any case, I am now confused by the differences between a USA Rail Pass (non-US/Canadian only) and a North American Rail Pass (open to all). Some are saying you can just get tickets when you like, others are saying that they all need to be pre-reserved before starting the trip and that changes are the exception rather than the norm. I suspect the truth lies somewhere between the two, and I'd be interested to know exactly what the score is. Amtrak's Ts&Cs don't explain much.
Geoff M.
Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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A million apologies. I was rather upset when I read royaltrain's words, "you are supposed to take one journey in Canada and another in the USA. But it is not necessary that you actually take the trip."
We have enough trouble staying on good terms with Canada without reserving seats on their trains and then not occupying them. Please forgive me.
I agree, the difference between the passes is very confusing. Since your personal experience with the USA Pass is such that you just have to show them the pass and go, then I'm sure that must be true.
When I bought my North American Rail Pass, I planned everything well in advance of my journey and did not alter my plans.
The fact that the Rail Pass people are so difficult to reach is probably one compelling reason to stick with one's itinery. But I suppose one could change one's plans if one was able to get ahold of them and are prepared to deal with a world of trouble.
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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I always dealt with changes actually at the stations rather than through a call centre. Each time they would take my ticket and my railpass (and sometimes ID if they were following the rules), tap away on their terminals for a couple of minutes, and then issue a new ticket. Come to think of it, I think I did call once to reserve a seat and then picked up the ticket at a station... can't be too sure of that I'm afraid.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Having taken the North American Rail Pass a few times myself, the Canadian Train things is easy to do. Take the Adirondack To Montreal, next day a Corridior Train to Toronto then the Maple Leaf back to the USA.
Or Maple Leaf to Toronto, a Via trip trip London or Windsor and the Maple Leaf back to the USA
Or Adirondack to Montreal, a Quebec City trip, spend the night there, back to Montreal in the morning and back into the USA.
Or from Seattle, Talgo to Vancouver, ferry to Victoria and the train on Vancouver Island then reverse you way back to Seattle.
posted
Just to clarify a point, I am a Canadian of English ancestry, and to clarify another point there is no reason why you cannot do as I suggested. I fail to see what is unethical about using the pass only in one country. If I pay good money for a pass, I can certainly do what I want with it. When I read the conditions, it says nothing about invalidating the pass if you use it in only one of the two countries. If Via and Amtrak wanted to forbid this type of activity then they could add that to the terms and conditions of the pass. Since they have not, then I must protest your statement that I was promoting unethical behaviour. A footnote: Last year when making my 2005 reservations, a Via agent told me he had no problems if I wanted to make a reservation and not use it. I must also add that I have never done this, but that option is open if I wish to.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
As chrisg so eloquently put it, some of us US citizens go to inordinant lengths to satisfy the rules that Amtrak lays down when they sell us the North American Rail Pass.
Perhaps VIA doesn't care whether Canadians use their reserved seats or not, but every operator I have spoken to at the Amtrak Railpass office seems to be very insistent about the fact that we fulfill our contractual obligation to visit both countries.
Perhaps the pass that you buy, royaltrain, is similar to the one that Geoff buys. But if it is a North American Rail Pass, then rules are rules. There certainly are times I would love *not* to go to Canada, but that's not the way the game is played.
I stand by the use of the word "unethical" however. Or maybe I should have used the word "unfair." At any rate, it bothers me that the rules for the North American Rail Pass are being arbitrarily enforced.
If however, the Canadian pass has a different set of rules for its citizens, then I humbly apologize.
By the way, chrisg, did you find the VIA corridor trains to be a little like an airplane, i.e. cramped seating and serious restrictions on baggage?
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
What nonsense Mr. Reuben. It's the person who buys the pass who determines how it is used, not Amtrak or Via. I have the pass in front of me as I type this, and I quote "Valid for travel on all Amtrak and Via services within the territory of the respective pass." It then goes on to list certain exceptions such as Acela etc. Nowhere on the pass are there any restrictions or conditions about having to use it in both countries. If Via or Amtrak insist that you "buy" a ticket in both countries then they are adding rules that do not exist on the pass itself. It may be Via and Amtrak's intent that the pass holder use it in both countries, but the pass itself contains no such requirement. There is no contractual obligation that the pass holder buy tickets for trains in both countries because the passenger has not entered into any contractual relationship with either railway. When I purchased the pass I did not sign a contract and did not agree to any rules that do not appear on the pass itself.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
On page 123 of the current AMTRAK timetable, under "North America Rail Pass," it is specifically stated that "....The itinerary must include at least one segment of travel on each carrier [meaning AMTRAK and VIA}
If VIA has different rules in their timetable (and I don't have a current VIA timetable), then be that as it may.......
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
It is the pass itself that determines the conditions and restrictions, not the timetable or what an agent may tell you on the phone. I really don't see what's so confusing about this.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I just spoke to an agent at Amtrak. The conversation was being monitored by her supervisor.
She told me that she did not want to get into any "what if scenarios." She told me that the rules are the rules and that passengers who buy the North American Rail Pass in either the US or Canada are expected to travel at least one leg of their journey in the other country.
Royaltrain, I known you don't give a damn, but you're breaking the rules. You are doing a disservice to this board by misleading others and causing general confusion.
I'm sure you are a very nice guy, but you are definitely approaching this matter like some kind of hot shot lawyer.
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
[qb] [QB] [qb] Originally posted by Charles Reuben: [QUOTE] Royaltrain, I know you don't give a damn, you're breaking the rules. You are doing a disservice to this board by misleading others and causing general confusion...you are definitely approaching this matter like some kind of hot shot lawyer."
Charles Reuben (I thought it was "Chucky" last week--why the name change?), may I humbly suggest you are "approaching this matter" like some pompous goody two-shoes.
Royaltrain, you have mislead nobody and have not caused confusion. The silly pass rules state you must book one leg in Canada. Doesn't say you have to take it. And vice versa. One can book a bunch of VIA miles, and one mile on Amtrak. Requirements met, pass issued. I suspect not actually riding the Amtrak mile will not expose you to years of playing "where's the soap?" with Bubba at Leavenworth, nor a perpetual "No Vacancy" sign at the Pearly Gates(St. Chucky may differ). Nowhere does it say in the requirements for the pass that you must actually travel on every segment reserved (Geez Martha, call our lawyer. I just realized we didn't use those tickets to Toledo we got on that pass deal.) Chucky (or whatever your name is this week) if I have misunderstood the criteria for obtaining this pass, please correct me (and not from your soap-box, but as a "hot-shot lawyer" all-knowing expert of the lingo of the rules).
Royaltrain, thanks for your pragmatic response. St. Chucky, consider chucking the idea you're the guardian at heaven's gate.
Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2002
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My real name is Charles Reuben and I would have used that name long ago but it took me a couple years to figure out how to create the change on this board. I guess when it comes to high tech matters, I'm rather slow.
Furthermore, I agree with Mr. Gilbert B. Norman who once wondered why people did not sign their postings with their real names. (Sorry to drag your good name into this rancid argument, Mr. Norman.) I no longer will hide my thoughts under the cloak of anonymity. (And if certain people are so cock sure about the veracity of their arguments, I challenge them to reveal their true identities as well.)
I'm not a saint, but maybe I am a goody two shoes when it comes to abiding by the rules of one of my favorite government institutions, i.e. Amtrak. I am not an anarchist and I doubt that any entity can survive if we make a mockery of its rules and encourage others to do the same.
If you guys want to change Amtrak, then let's do it the proper way, not by underhanded dealings and shady practices. Amtrak is a frail flower whose existence is at stake: If members of this board will not abide by its rules, then how do you expect the general pubic or politicians, for that matter, to take it seriously?
Yes, you can travel just a small leg of your journey on VIA or Amtrak, as the case may be. The point is to take the trip.
I don't like this rule any more than the rest of you, but is the proper way to change it simply to ignore it?
Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
St. Chucky, thanks for the lecture on monikers used on this forum. Using your real name certainly trumps my alias. Once again you have captured the moral high ground.
But may I ask you some questions (humbly, of course, and with all due respect, and with full knowledge I may be struck down by lightning)?
First, is it possible you're making a mountain (yes, I acknowledge you apparently have the power to do that)out of a mole hill? The rules state you must reserve travel on both Amtrak and VIA for the pass. If you don't, no pass. Period. The rules don't require actual travel on any particular segment you reserve.
Now, if one doesn't travel on a particular segment they've reserved (and I suspect it's a common occurence), how does that threaten the survival of Amtrak (and possibly western civilization as we know it)? You state: "Amtrak is a frail flower whose existence is at stake" if we don't abide by its rules. Is it possible you're exaggerating things just a bit? Or a big bit? And, again, I ask where the rules have been broken.
(As an aside, a question about the "frail flower" phrase: do you actually talk like that in real life?)
I have a confession to make, for it appears I have sinned. And who better to fess up to than St. Chucky.
About a month ago (December 11), I had a need to travel by public transportation from Sacramento to Chico. An Amtrak Thruway bus best fit my schedule. I tried to buy my ticket at the website. No go--had to book the bus with a train leg. Basically evil as I am, I got around the same problem a year ago by buying the ticket at a Quik-Trak kiosk. Went to the depot in Sac, tried it, and got the same message. If you're keeping track, that's strike two. With one strike left, I headed to the ticket counter and requested a ticket. No problem. Ticket promptly issued (but for $1 more than the rate on the internet). While waiting for the bus, I noticed there were actually two tickets in my envelope (SAC-CIC that I ordered, and a ticket from Davis to SAC on the Capitol Corridor).
Ah, the light comes on. The ticket agent just added a short rail leg that she (and I) knew I wouldn't take so I could get the desired ticket. I thought it was clever at the time, but now I know the error of my ways. I see now that I have sinned, and have contributed to the demise of that frail flower, Amtrak. Am I beyond salvation, or what?
Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
I figure the only outcome there will be for people "skirting the rules" (implied - interpreted - whatever) is that eventually Amtrak and Via will discontinue the pass.Or will make it two seperate passes -- with two seperate fees. (Call me pessimistic, but I am willing to bet both added together will total a higher price than the current fee.) Dee p.s While I myself choose to "follow the spirit" (if not the law) of the program I leave others to make their own choices.
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
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posted
No Zephyr, I don't talk like that. But having suckled at the teet of Charles Dickens during my youth, I do write like that sometimes.
I've spent the last 30 years living in New Mexico and seem to have lost the ability to talk coherently these days. I say "y'all" just to fit in with the crowd and have been known to use the word "ain't" too.
I ain't no saint, that's for sure. And I would just love it if Amtrak and Via somehow changed their rules, more for the sake of others than for myself (my sister lives in Ottawa and I have numerous relatives in Montreal and Toronto).
I guess I got a little out of hand. I can get that way sometimes. I apologize for being such a jackass.
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
It has not been discussed in this thread why the Canada rule exists. I might speculate it is a result of some common interests of VIA and Amtrak, maybe involving money?
I agree with DeeCT (and my own paranoia). If enough people circumvent the rules, we might lose something good. Once I retire, I would love a cross-Canada trip thrown in with unlimited Amtrak travel. If the Amtrak LD's are cut, I might spend alot of my tourist $ in Canada, but I'd rather spend them in the USA.
Also, I would be perfectly happy to use my given name on the forum, but unfortunately my parents gave me the boring and common name of Jerry Peterson instead of my preferred name of Twin Star Rocket.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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By the way, chrisg, did you find the VIA corridor trains to be a little like an airplane, i.e. cramped seating and serious restrictions on baggage?
Never having used a North American Rail Pass, I will stay out of this debate, but as "chrisg" hasn't answered the above question, perhaps I can answer it based on my experiences.
With their enclosed overhead luggage bins, the HEP-2 and LRC coaches do look like an airplane, but they are not as cramped. The leg-room on these cars is similar to Amtrak's corridor Amfleet coaches, although I have never measured the leg-room with a tape-measure - only with my long legs.
VIA operates first-class cars, called VIA 1, on most corridor trains. Regrettably, the seating is two-and-two, as in coach, but there is better leg-room and the seats are more plush (except on three HEP-2 cars which, for reasons known only to VIA, there are coach seats but first-class leg-room.) The Renaissance train cars have two-and-one seating in both coach and VIA 1 because of the narrower loading guage of the cars. I highly recommend the VIA 1 option on any type of equipment, more for the amenities than for the seats. There are Panorama Lounges in all major stations, seats assigned upon booking, hot towels, four choices of main course at lunch and dinner, bar service, wine and liqueurs, the latter only on evening runs. Specific menus are available on VIA's Website and, although VIA doesn't advertise this, if you see something you really like you can pre-order that main course to make sure you get it. If you choose your seat(s) near the middle of the car (where knowledgeable travellers want to be anyway) there is a good chance you will get your choice no matter at which end the attendants start taking orders.
The standard of VIA 1 catering is vastly superior to what Air Canada offers in its North American Executive Class. My wife and I recently took a Toronto - Vancouver round trip in Executive Class (on points - the price is horrific) and there were only two meal choices. Both meals were rubbish compared to what VIA offers. I have to blame the airline for that because the meals come from the same supplier: Cara.
There are luggage racks at the vestibule ends of all LRC and HEP-2 coaches. Very few trains in the corridor offer a baggage car, except the Renaissance trains which operate normally between Montreal and Quebec City. There is space under each seat for an "airline carry-on" size suitcase, but no luggage racks at the end of the car.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I enjoy any train that I ride so I just noticed the differences and rolled with it. I used the end racks in the cars for a luggage so I had no problems.
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