Gov. Mike Rounds (R-SD) bought a new plane. Interesting though, how he paid for it. From aberdeennews.com 1/1/06:
"Rounds bought a 1995 King Air 90 for about $1.5 million a year ago after selling two older state airplanes.
"Budget Commissioner Jason Dilges told lawmakers Amtrak funds paid for the airplane, although he said the original check was written from the aeronautics fund and Amtrak money replenished that account.
"Some legislators questioned the authority to make the purchase and whether it was proper to use Amtrak funds, part of $23 million South Dakota received although it's one of six states with no Amtrak lines."
It is time for Mineta to have a press conference to talk about the empty trains not running through South Dakota.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Why are states with no Amtrak service receiving Amtrak funding?
Posted by gp35 (Member # 3971) on :
quote:Originally posted by notelvis: Why are states with no Amtrak service receiving Amtrak funding?
To keep them from joining the anti-amtrak lynch mob.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Why isn't there a train to visit Mount Rushmore? And Yellowstone?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
"Some legislators questioned the authority to make the purchase and whether it was proper to use Amtrak funds, part of $23 million South Dakota received although it's one of six states with no Amtrak lines."
Must say it is of interest how the only contiguous state that has never had an Amtrak train ends up with $23M for Amtrak service.
There is something missing here; had the number been, say, $230K, then I would there was an unexpended appropriation for, say, consultants to make a rail passenger feasability study....but $23M seems 'a bit heavy' for such esoteric purposes.
It will be interesting to see if anything else regarding this story hits the papers.
Posted by EmpireBuilder (Member # 2036) on :
Six states without Amtrak service? What are the other two besides Hawaii, Alaska, South Dakota, and Wyoming?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Maine and New Hampshire; which only got such with the Downeaster's inauguration.
Obviously, noting six was out of date and shows the lack of 'fact checking' inherent to the article.
The count at present is four: AK, HI, SD, WY
Posted by chrisg (Member # 2488) on :
New Hampshire had Amtrak service before the Downeaster with the lone stop at Claredon Jct.
Chr1s
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
"Why isn't there a train to visit Mount Rushmore? And Yellowstone?"
To my knowledge there was never any significant passenger service near Mt. Rushmore, even in the glory days of passenger rail. Milwaukee Road and Chicago Northwestern had minor branch lines to Rapid City, but according to my 1957 timetables, passenger service was not available. Those lines may be abandoned by now.
Burlington ran an unnamed passenger train from Omaha to Billings through Edgemount SD in the southern Black Hills. It's probably a coal hauling line for BNSF now. In short, no good rails, not enough of a market for passengers, not too many people live there.
The now defunct Milwaukee RR once ran the deluxe CHI-Seattle Olympian Hiawatha through northern SD.
Yellowstone used to be accessable by train prior to Amtrak. Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha ran very close to Yellowstone on the ex-Northern Pacific mainline in the 70's. Union Pacific used to have passenger service on a branch line to West Yellowstone prior to Amtrak. Both these lines are probably downgraded by now.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Does Kentucky have any service any more?
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
The Cardinal and the City of New Orleans both have stops in Kentucky, but just barely into the state on opposite ends.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Fulton on the City of New Orleans. Ashland, South Portsmouth, and Maysville on the Cardinal
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
George, you probably would have beaten me by a nanosecond if you hadn't sent from Taiwan.
Posted by MontanaJim (Member # 2323) on :
"Yellowstone used to be accessable by train prior to Amtrak. Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha ran very close to Yellowstone on the ex-Northern Pacific mainline in the 70's. Union Pacific used to have passenger service on a branch line to West Yellowstone prior to Amtrak. Both these lines are probably downgraded by now"
montana rail link now owns and uses the track from laurel mt to sandpoint idaho via Livingston (my hometown and where i am now). The track to Gardiner, was torn up in the 80's. the last passenger train to gardiner was in 65.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
I have fond memories of Livingston. My only North Coast Hiawatha trip was from Minneapolis to Livingston. We rode our (checked baggage, unboxed!) bikes up to Gardiner on a deserted paved road that paralleled the main highway, with a strong north tailwind that blew is right up into Yellowstone. Walked the bikes most of the steep short road up to Mammoth and never encountered a big climb again. Saw Old Faithfull and out through West Yellowstone, then down the Gallatin to Bozeman.
Our eastbound Hiawatha was annulled due to early June washouts on the Yellowstone, so we were bustituted to Miles City. The Hiawatha had been rerouted via the old Milwaukee route through Roundup. We heard the tracks were so bad the conductor was walking ahead of the train. That would have been rare mileage to relish.
The bus was so far ahead of the train that we spent all night watching poker in a Miles City bar. A beautiful trip and a great adventure. I wish you could still do that.
Posted by MontanaJim (Member # 2323) on :
twinstarrocket--sounds like that was a fantastic trip. today there is highway 89 and then the "old" road runs parralel to it a half mile or so away to the east. you must have been riding on the old road.
the depot here in livingston is still here. they use it as a museum. too bad more people cant see it, its one of best designed train stations in the country!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
OK, I've learned more about the source of this $23M "Amtrak money'.
Under the Tax Relief Act of 1997, there was a subterfuge to enable Amtrak to obtain additional funding. Under the Internal Revenue Code Sec 172 et seq, any Corporation that has a net loss in a given year can get a refund of taxes paid in prior years subject of course to limitations. If no taxes are available to be "carried back' to i.e.a corporation has never paid any income tax, that becomes a "sorry Charlie' and the only way to receive a tax benefit is to hope the company makes money in the future and no taxes will be paid until future income exceeds losses. That is known as a "carryforward'.
Well, since Amtrak never has and never will make a dime, some legislators decided to play "lets pretend' and through this provision enabled Amtrak to apply for Tax refunds just as if they had made money in the past but had fallen upon hard times.
There was one key exception, if a state had never had any Amtrak service then Amtrak was required to pay that state a portion of its refund. In the case of SD, their share was $23M.
Jack Abramoff could not have dreamed up a better piece of subterfuge.
The money is South Dakota's fair and square, the germane issue is whether or not that money could be spent on upgrading its "air force'.
But I think the paper could have clarified things a lot by including in the article a sentence to the effect of "because of a 1997 law, Amtrak was required to give South Dakota $23 million because it has no service'.
Posted by RRCHINA (Member # 1514) on :
Thanks Mr. Norman, it seemed likely that such a scheme was the answer.
But when we hear Congress persons whining that there is no money for ... (name one or 100 items) we should accept it as propaganda seeking votes.
There is lots of money going to DC, but priorities are lacking when spending is considered.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Back when the North Star ran to Duluth as a 403b train, the state of Minnesota paid $100,000 a year for it's share. It was discontinued when the legislature had to cut things and decided they could not afford the 100 g's. It was not because of lack of ridership.
When I think of how many years $23 million could have paid for to continue that train! There is no justice.
If you can believe URPA's figures that say all of the LD's combined cost less than $100 million per year, than South Dakota got a deal. It probably didn't hurt that Tom Daschle was leader of the Senate when this deal was made.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
I feel a sudden urge to play the Looney Tunes theme right now.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Fulton on the City of New Orleans. Ashland, South Portsmouth, and Maysville on the Cardinal
And of these the only two which are decent places to wait for a train are Ashland and Maysville.
Maysville is a solid brick C&O station which, although not lovingly cared for, is a reasonably OK location.
Ashland's station is a restored C&O freight station which Amtrak shares with Greyhound.