Today's National Association of Railroad Passengers internet 'Hotline' is reporting that the Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited will regain through cars and a Viewliner Sleeper in place of Business Class effective with the October 27th schedule change.
Sojourner's information pans out and I am thrilled.
You'll want to scroll about 3/4th's down the screen to the part about 'Amtrak Fall/Winter Schedule Change'.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
GREAT NEWS!!!
Can restoration of the Sunset Ltd east of NO be far behind??
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
The 'Complimentary Cold Meal Service' sounds about as appealing as eating Play-dough though.
I would rather have a microwaved cheeseburger. I wonder why the microwaved tray meals are not being offered?
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
I think the complimentary cold meal refers only to the lunch meal between Boston and Albany. I don't mind a cold sandwich, and I imagine that is what it is, probably with potato chips.
But I heard some bad news; train orders is reporting that Boston got the sleepers nixed because the yard there could not handle servicing Viewliners at this time, there are no spare parts, they don't have the manpower to deal with another type of equipment, etc etc
So who knows what the story is?
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
I just today scheduled a trip that begins Worcester to Chicago on October 29. There was no through sleeper shown on Amtrak's website, nor was it mentioned when I made the reservation by phone. I had to do coach to Albany (no business class available anymore) and get the sleeper from Albany to Chicago, as has been the case recently. If there is to be a through sleeper from Boston, one would think that the reservation system should know about it by now.
Posted by wayne72145 (Member # 4503) on :
I booked the LSL Chi/Bos on Feb 6 changing in Albany to Coach and today I noticed that they booked me twice on the Albany-Boston run??? On the 7th and 8th---I was confused and called and was told to ignore the booking on the 8th. ????
On the return I desided to take the Regional #171 to NYP and LakeShore to Chicago from there just because Ive never been that way. I hope I book a sleeper all the way now.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
And so where will the sleeper come from? This has to mean taking a sleeper from another train. Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
There will be one less NYP-CHI Sleeper line.
I still must ask who was the politico that leaned on Amtrak to make this service enhancement. Be assured there are people at 60 Mass who think the way I do: 'It's just going to cost money'.
Regarding Ms. Sojourner's point, I would not consider there is any correlation between this apparently "done deal" Lake Shore enhancement and a Sunset East restoration. The New England "Congressional caucus" has long supported Amtrak - and have wanted their "spoils' for doing so. I believe that not for New England support, Acela would be an NY-Wash operation and the electricficatio extension simply "wouldn't be'. Service East of New Haven would have been relegated to little more than that of the Springfield Shuttle.
But the Sunset East has no political patron saint and obviously no support at 60 Mass. Therefore, the "fight" is in the hearts and minds of advocacy groups, some of which appear to be quite "ad hoc" in scope.
Posted by MDRR (Member # 2992) on :
They may, assuming they are going through with this, just be reassigning one of the NY sleepers to the Bos section.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob from MA: If there is to be a through sleeper from Boston, one would think that the reservation system should know about it by now.
There is a report at another site that Sleeper inventory will be available on Monday.
But again, consider the source.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
Gilbert:
Alex Kummant said in an interview in PTJ that the Sunset East is dead; there's no funding or resources for it, so everyone should "Get over it".
But on the other hand, check Railnews. Congress passed a bill giving Amtrak a big increase in funding, and it looks like Bush will sign it. I don't know how much is for new equipment. But it looks like they may bring back the Pioneer and the North Coast Hiawatha. Obama voted YES!! McCain voted NO!! Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Maybe we need to put pressure on politicians to get them to put pressure on Amtrak to start up that FL to NO route again.
It doesn't need to be the same train that continues to LA. And it could end in San Antonio.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Nicholson, lets review what a "lame duck" Congress has passed and a "dead duck" President reportedly will sign. The legislation is an Authorization, which is setting forth guidelines to House Committees with respect to future rail passenger , i.e. Amtrak, funding. Here is a concise primer reagrding the two terms.
However, if the House, when initiating appropriation legislation - usually known as Omnibus Spending bills, chooses to ignore the enacted Authorization guidelines (remember only the House can initiate legislation that will spend your money), the only recourse available to the citizens is at the polls.
Now regarding the two restoration "studies', this kind of pork has a way of creeping into any legislation (did you know there is a provision in the Bailout Act regarding repeal of an excise tax imposed on wooden arrows? But for those around here who find themselves "clipped' each year by the Alternative Minimum Tax, the "annual patch" is thankfully included in the Act). Numerous routes have been "studied' in the past. I still think 'Alex the K" has it on mark regarding Sunset East.
Volks, I again note "There's something happening here' regarding rail passenger service - and personally am "pleased as punch" to see such move forth. But that "something' is frequent service over predominately passenger rights-of-way (likely publicly owned) between population centers in which rail travel time can be competitive with air and auto transport. Those markets are collectively known as 'Corridors".
Finally, as dissonant as such may sound, the Bush administration could go down in history as a 'friend of LD Amtrak'. Really, when compared with Carter and Clinton administrations, comparatively little has been lost with the Three Rivers and Sunset East - and there has been an impressive gain - The Downeaster.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Finally, as dissonant as such may sound, the Bush administration could go down in history as a 'friend of LD Amtrak'. Really, when compared with Carter and Clinton administrations, comparatively little has been lost with the Three Rivers and Sunset East - and there has been an impressive gain - The Downeaster.
I call "nicest use of the term 'dissonant' on Trainweb" that I've ever seen. (Warning - I have a degree in Music and I'm not afraid to use it!)
That the Bush administration may go down as being 'Amtrak Friendly' is really ironic.
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
Getting back to the subject of this thread, I might note that this is Monday and Amtrak's reservation system does not yet indicate a through sleeper on the Boston/Chicago run. One post, above, cited a report that it would be added today.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob from MA: Getting back to the subject of this thread, I might note that this is Monday and Amtrak's reservation system does not yet indicate a through sleeper on the Boston/Chicago run. One post, above, cited a report that it would be added today.
Sojourner has seen a post elsewhere and Gilbert Norman has suggested that perhaps Boston doesn't have the infrastructure in place to support turning a Viewliner sleeper yet. Things such as having extra linens on hand or technicians familiar with making a quick repair on that particular type of rolling stock.
Maybe a though sleeper will happen but maybe not be the new timetable's effective date.
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
I just returned from the Worcester, MA station where I picked up some tickets for a trip beginning Oct. 29. The agent there confirmed that a through sleeper was going to be added. He gave a date of Oct. 17. I thought that was odd, since the new schedules begin Oct. 27. Maybe that is the date that it will appear on the reservation system. Basically, I don't give his report any more credence than those I've seen on this forum. He did have the new system timetables, by the way, and I obtained a copy.
Even if a sleeper is added, I will still ride on the coach to Albany, at least for this trip. As DeeCT remarked on another thread, the Boston sleeper ends up at the front of the train when the two sections are joined at Albany. That sleeper is separated from the dining car then by five or six coaches and a lounge. Normally, as a train lover, I don't mind walking through the train. However, heading for an early breakfast, one has to dodge passengers headed for the rest room, legs of sleeping patrons sticking out into the aisle, etc. In contrast, the New York sleepers are right next to the diner.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Even though as of a few moments ago, there remains no inventory for a 448/9 Sleeper line, I'm not prepared to say the proposal is dead, but we must acknowledge that the proposal appears lame.
I hold that to have a car that could potentially be Bad Ordered "out in Left Field" where there is no protect car available and no "on the ground' resources to make repairs other than to running gear (that is all to AAR standards), is simply not how a "play it safe" bureaucracy does things. A bureaucracy is not concerned about attaining maximum utilization from their resources, but rather having "ducks in a row' when the finger pointing starts. Hence as Mr. JP1822 has often noted here, only 39 Viewliners are "in line".
I'm still of thought that this proposed initiative moved forth at the behest of a "New England caucus politico', but if it is now dead, obviously Amtrak Operations made an effective case to set forth what could go wrong. The play it safe mentality would require a Boston "protect' car assignment.
Finally, if Amtrak were Southwest Airlines - a carrier known for high utilization of its fleet, they would look aghast at 22% (11/50=.22) revenue generating units (cars in the case of Amtrak, aircraft for SW) not in line. But Southwest is not a bureaucracy, but rather a passenger carrier that apparently still engenders a "scrappy' management culture that prevailed when they started life on the eve of air transport "Dereg" as a Texas intrastate carrier - and a fleet of three aircraft.
Posted by MDRR (Member # 2992) on :
I was looking at the fall job bulletin, and there are still 3 sleepers operating out of NYP on 49/48. This seems to make it even less likely there will actually be a Bos sleeper...
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
The reservation system still does not show a through Boston-Chicago sleeper at any time in the near future. It does seem to indicate, however, that there will be through coaches after the new schedule begins (rather than changing trains at Albany/Rensselaer). Such a set-up would presumably allow for a sleeper to be added whenever equipment and maintenance facilities might allow it.
I'll be traveling on the train in a couple of weeks and will report any information I might pick up on board.
Posted by Judy McFarland (Member # 4435) on :
Out of curiosity I checked the LSL(48) I am taking on Nov 25 - no sleeping accommodations offered on 448 that day.
Posted by wayne72145 (Member # 4503) on :
When I booked EUG/BOS for 4 Feb 09 last month they offered Business Class for the Albany/Boston portion. I see now that there isn't a business class offered on that run.
Posted by MDRR (Member # 2992) on :
Strangely enough, I just received current Atk employee newsletter in mail. It has article regarding fall time change, and quotes Barbara Bruce, senior scheduling officer as saying "the big service change is the restoration of through Boston-Chicago coaches and sleepers on the LSL"
Posted by Railroad Bill (Member # 5097) on :
Wife and I just returned Thursday AM from a NYP to CLE run on the LSL. Had a long conversation with the conductor in the lounge car and she noted that sleeper service would begin soon between Boston and Albany. As to the discussion re: equipment, I would note that wife and I were the only people in our 4910 sleeper from NYP to Albany. There were two other sleepers on the train as well as three coaches and they were not full. When we arrived in Albany there were a hoard of people boarding our car and the other two sleepers. Perhaps the extra sleeper can be found on the regular LSL run. (Taking the "extra" sleeper off the NYP to Albany and back and placing it on the Albany-Boston and back run. Seemed to be several Viewliner cars and locos in the Albany Amtrak shops when we passed by. Had a great time on our CLE-CHI-NOL-NYP-CLE five day tour. Will have a trip report later. Railroad and Mrs. Bill lovin' Amtrak
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
The October 17th NARP hotline reports that through cars will return to Boston with the time change BUT that the planned sleeper will be 'delayed'.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
On my recent Adirondack trip (about which I will post shortly), I met an Amtrak employee out of Boston, and he said that he had heard talk about the sleepers being reinstituted but that those plans fell through. Whether that is something permanent or just means there will be the "delay" you mention, I don't know. . .
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Even the most avid NARP "disciple" around here must acknowledge that something happened to derail this proposed service enhancement.
Some politico wanted it; Amtrak initially said "yes sir". However, the operational problems - some of which based upon my knowledge of railroad operations I have outlined here - eventually overrode what the politico wanted.
There even may have been a problem with the displacement of jobs at the New York base and giving the work to Chicago. Potentially there are some 18 jobs that could be affected (TAS, TAC, LSA, X 3 sets X 2 sides) and possibly NY was not willing to give them up without a fight.
Or maybe Chicago' s list of Extra employees is so thin that they would have to go to the street and hire 20 or so new on-board people - and have to train them "on the quick'.
These are issues with which either a railfan or even an industry observer (that means me) do not have all the first hand details to ascertain why the enhancement did not move forth as scheduled.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Acknowledged.......believe it when you see it....not before.
Posted by Robert L (Member # 3144) on :
IMO, the real key here is Amtrak's staffing philosophy. Appropriate staffing would be needed for OBP, track [cut-in/out]crews, and maintanence/trainkeeping crews to work the train and the Chicago and Boston ends. As long as Amtrak still says there are no cars, then they do not need to staff them. Amtrak can keep jamming as many passengers into fewer cars, charge more and make more [but not enough] money for providing passenger rail service [or 'railroading' more passengers, whichever way you look at it]. IMO, bite the bullet, hire more staff, repair more cars and take the entire Chicago-Boston route and make it a separate run straight through. Instead of leaving Boston at 12N, leave at 12M, arriving, instead of 945p, arrive at 945a. Returning at 10a, not 10p, arriving at 945a, 945p. Might save some time at Albany and cut times even. Best of all, for you Buckeye fans [from my Wolverine POV], Ohio would have some daytime, daylight exposure and the new train could change some travel patterns in Ohio. OK, IMO this touches a lot of nerves, so here's your chance to 'rail on.'
Posted by Robert L (Member # 3144) on :
OH!OH!, my prior post had an error I meant to say:
Boston to Chicago arriving at "945p,"[not 945a], returning w/arrival in Boston at "945a [not] 945p." The consist, of course would be full service, coach, Viewliners, dinner
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
Robert L,
While I am sure those in Ohio would be happier, your suggested schedule does not allow for same day connection with the Western LD trains.
With the price of hotel rooms in Chicago,not what I want.
Fine for those who are antsy about missing connections, but as often as I have traveled the westbound LSL, I have only missed my connection in Chicago once. (That was due to a freight derailment in upstate NY. It mattered not,however, since the CZ was also canceled due to severe snow storms in the Rockies. Amtrak paid for my overnite lodging).
Dee
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
How about if they use a superliner from Boston--it doesn't go thru NYC. Or are the superliners too high in Boston too, because of the underground/Back Bay portion?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Sojourner, here is a report appearing at another site describing the operation of a Dome car (of same design as those assigned to the Canadian) into Boston (I'll take responsibility for any copyright infringement that has occurred):
quote:Gil Norman's recollection is correct - a test train was operated with a short dome from Rensselaer to Boston in 1990 or thereabouts. I was GM of CR's Albany Division at the time, and the test was requested by the late W. Graham Claytor, Jr.
At the time, CR had completed a clearance improvement project for handling of enclosed multilevel auto carriers between Post Road Crossing (CP 187) and Framingham (CP 22). Our standard for the clearance of passing equipment "to strike" was four inches.
The test train was operated eastbound, with no problems until we were east of Beacon Park Yard, at the overpass for Beacon St. (IIRC), where the clearance was about two inches under the bridge. This was anticipated in advance, by reference to existing clearance data.
The usual solution would have been to lower the track, but there was an adjacent undergrade bridge which carried the flow from the Back Bay Fens to the Charles River and this structure could not be lowered without impairing the necessary flow in that stream.
Clearances were "tight" but passable through the remainder of the route east and through "CP COVE" (end of CR), where I left the train. I believe the train operated over the wye connection toward South Bay, without ever heading into South Station.
For the return, the dome was handled in #449 and "walked" under the Beacon St. overpass.
As Tom Nelligan has pointed out, domes were later handled in the Lake Shore Ltd., but only west of Rensselaer
I realize you have graciously noted here at the Forum you do not hold any expertise with regard to railroad operations, but I think even a layman less informed than yourself could ascertain that such is simply not reasonable and practical in daily operation.
In addition to the clearance issue, Superliners cannot handle passengers at a station with high level platforms; both Back Bay and South Station are so equipped. While Amtrak has operated Superliners into Phila 30st (Caternary; hi-level platforms), such was for a travel agent equipment display. At either end of the Superliner display there was a T-Dorm and a single level Coach to enable access from the Hi-Level platform to the display set.
Trust this explanation will suffice.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
As I recall, the B&O domes (coach and sleeper) operated from Washington to Chicago. I don't recall the restriction, maybe Washington Union Terminal, but they had lower clearances than other domes in operation. For a time, the sleeper dome operated on the Floridian (and earlier on the Florida Special).
I suspect they would fit into Boston. Amtrak just needs to dig out the specs and order a few when placing their next equipment order for the eastern trains.
Posted by Robert L (Member # 3144) on :
Thanks DeeCT for the comments, but.... we must not make too much of the coast to coast connection. There are a lot of connections to be made on the right side of the [Mississippi] river. Let's not turn that "round 'em and head 'em out" of Chicago mentality [remember the stockyards] into a fetish. Besides why not put a night owl out of Chicago also that turns nights into daylight for our Plains and Mountains brothers and sisters.
Another topic, the domes! Count me in on making, rebuilding, saving, restoring, whatever and whereever more domes and put them on Amtrak in the East. I remember coming out of DC to Chicago with a single level dome [not Superliner]. What a great way to catch the sunset out of DC and the sunrise through Indiana.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
"Straight from the horse's mouth"; here is a paste from the Oct 27 Lake Shore "timecard":
Services on the Lake Shore Limited® ® Coaches: Reservations required. s Sleeping cars: Viewliner sleeping accommodations - Amtrak’s Metropolitan Lounge/ClubAcela available in Chicago, New York and Boston for Sleeping car Service passengers. r Dining: Casual service offering complete meals and appetizers with an all day menu on Trains 48 and 49 between New York and Chicago. Not available between Albany and Boston; Sleeping car passengers will receive complimentary cold meal service. y Lounge: Sandwiches, snacks and beverages. Combined Diner/Lounge provides food and beverage service between New York and Albany. Smoking is prohibited.
It would appear that the Timetable writers seem to be of thought that there is a Boston Sleeper.
Incidentially, while I hold this is the most painless way to obtain a System Timetable, it is neverthelass available for download. However, the file is 9.27 Megs, which I would think could be a problem for those having only dial-up (as was my case until June '07).
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
I went down to the Worcester station today to check out the LSL-Boston Section, its first run on the new Fall schedule. I will be boarding it on Wednesday. The consist of passenger cars was as follows: Two Amfleet II coaches (25091, 25047), one Metroliner Coach (44709) and an Amfleet I Club dinette (converted) (48170). There was no sleeper. The conductor offered the information that the sleeper would appear in two weeks or less. We'll see.
The presence of the dinette was unexpected, as the timetable does not indicate that. Its position at the rear is probably to facilitate its removal at Albany/Rensselaer before connection with the New York section, which normally has its own cafe and dining car.
The station attendant at Worcester is relatively new to Amtrak. He had no information - said they "don't tell him anything." The train left Worcester about 10 minutes late.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Tell me no secrets and I'll tell you no lies!
The new timetable which I received in the mail this past week does seem to suggest that a sleeper to Boston may be forthcoming.
Posted by MDRR (Member # 2992) on :
Atk's weekly employee news update this week indicated " thru sleeper svc. to Bos coming soon..." Also the lounge on the Bos section runs thru to Chi and is not removed in Albany. As to whether it remains to be a split club, I would rather doubt...
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
MDRR
When I watched the train on Tuesday, all the passenger cars were different ones than on Monday, including the lounge. That would seem to confirm your statement that the lounge runs through to Chicago along with the coaches.
I will be riding the train today.
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
Just returned from trip to Minnesota. Amtrak personnel on the Lake Shore Limited are now saying that the Boston sleeper will not be added until at least January. Again, we can take that information for what it's worth.
I will post a report on my trip at a later time.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
NARP, in an email a day or two ago, now says that the sleeper to Boston, while still planned, will be delayed in getting started.
That seems consistant with Bob's information above.
Posted by Judy McFarland (Member # 4435) on :
I'll be on the LSL on November 25 & ask about the Boston sleeper then.
Posted by gibg (Member # 2565) on :
I have vivid memories of riding the NEW ENGLAND STATES (late 40s/early 50s) between Springfield, MA and Chicago. The New York Central put a lot of pride in that train, and it showed. Full complement of sleepers, coaches, lounges and diners. I can remember climbing the crest of the Berhshires east of Pittsfield behind both steam and diesel, and it seemed as though every New England college student was headed for the midwest. The B&A had a solid double-track line the whole way, and the Albany stop was quick and brief. Great memory of the NYC in its heyday!
Posted by ehbowen (Member # 4317) on :
Gibg,
Do you think that you could write up some of those memories as a trip report for me? If so, I'll post it as an accompaniment to a schedule for the New England States from that time period.
Posted by Metman007 (Member # 155) on :
I went to the Worcester station on Tuesday November 18. The Lake Shore Limited #449 arrived 30 minutes late without a sleeper.
Posted by jp1822 (Member # 2596) on :
Some have predicted that Boston may not have "parts" to service the Viewliners and that's leading to the "delay." However, Boston South Station is also unique in that it doesn't really service P42 Genesis locomotives every day either.
I am not sure if totally give into this "service" argument, nor should Boston's maintenace department necessarily be dictating what equipment it can and can't handle.
Sunnyside Yard, NY is sort of the hub of the Viewliners. It certainly must have some Viewliner sleeper parts. And it's not like the Viewliner parts are across the country. I am not saying that Amtrak should be shuttling parts from Sunnyside Yard to Boston to fix any Viewliners, but this could happen under extreme circumstances.
However, I am still not convinced that the Boston sleeper of the Lake Shore Limited should operate without putting overnight sleeper service back on the NEC - which would require an additional two Viewliners into operation. For example Amtrak would have to run 41 Viewliners out of its 50 Viewliners, than its current 39 out of 50 Viewliners.
To me, the operation of these two services may best be operated in tandem. There wouldn't be any "same day" turns of the equipment. The Viewliners would have to swapped out in the morning for servicing at Boston - in order to get back to Sunnyside Yard via the Lake Shore Limited , but it would allow Boston to service Viewliners from two routes rather than one.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
How about overnight sleeper service on the NEC but start the trains further south?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Anyone care to query up BOS to CHI itinerary April 4 or later and note what is returned?
Posted by HillsideStation (Member # 6386) on :
I did Mr. Norman. I also checked the fares BOS/CHI and NYP/CHI. A bedroom NYP/CHI is twice the price of one BOS/CHI. Finally something costing less in New England. Best regards, Rodger
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Anyone care to query up BOS to CHI itinerary April 4 or later and note what is returned?
According to Amtrak's website, on the 2nd of April/09 a viewliner sleeper was available Chicago to Boston showing fares of $184 for a roomette and $370 for a bedroom. On the 3rd a roomette is $369 and a bedroom $741. On both the 4th and 5th the roomette was $369 and the bedroom $370. These fares are certainly all over the place. How can a bedroom on one day be only one dollar more expensive than a roomette and the next day $372 more expensive?
There were no sleepers showing for the 1st of April or earlier. So does this mean that Amtrak is really going to restore a sleeping car between Chicago and Boston, or is this a (few days late) April fool's day joke?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Well Mr. Royal, in view of the 'false starts" regardiong this service enhancement, I cannot rule out your final thought.
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
Well, now I will certainly try to go down to the Worcester station and watch the train coming from Boston on April 4th to confirm the adding of the viewliner sleeper. That's the first day it appears as an option on the westbound LSL.
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
It occurs to me that this is a HUGE business decision on Amtrak's part that I don't quite understand. In addition to having to have a maintenance facility in Boston to handle the sleeper, there will now have to be a switching operation in ALB to connect the 2 trains which is what we had 10 years ago and was eliminated to save $$$. In another thread, SunsetLTD has outlined an itinerary that includes going from Boston to Chicago. He rightly realises that he doesn't need the sleeper until ALB so he's planning on going coach BOS-ALB. Makes pretty good sense to me, so why IS Amtrak adding the sleeper on 448/9?
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
TBlack -
Simply put - it is an answer to customer wishes and convenience.
Dee
Posted by Printman2000 (Member # 4338) on :
quote:Originally posted by TBlack: It occurs to me that this is a HUGE business decision on Amtrak's part that I don't quite understand. In addition to having to have a maintenance facility in Boston to handle the sleeper, there will now have to be a switching operation in ALB to connect the 2 trains which is what we had 10 years ago and was eliminated to save $$$.
It is not really a huge switching issue. They merely run out of Chicago with the Boston section up front and the NY section on the rear. At Albany the train splits in two and the P42 take the Boston section to Boston. They then put the dual-mode on the NY section and way it goes.
I guess 49/449 is a little more involved (backing the Boston section to the front of the NY section), but nothing real complex.
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
Thanks Printman. Another of our members here said the following at another forum:
I wonder what "politico" up Boston way leaned on Amtrak to make this possible service enhancement - especially if the Sleeper and X-Country Dining service come to pass? I cannot imagine of Amtrak's own initiative inaugurating any such changes as they are clearly subordinating operational efficiency to passenger amenities.
In addition to the obvious of additional switching costs at Albany, having a scarce Sleeper possibly being Bad Ordered 'way out in Left Field', requirement to stock and maintain Bed Linens at a facility at which there is presently no need, there will also be a requirement to stock additional Food items at the Boston commissary to provision the X-Country menus.
Again, if there is any foundation to these observations and reports, it is a safe bet that "someone's leanin' on 'em"; the big question will be "who".
I'm hesitant to attribute the quote, because I did "borrow" it from another discussion. But it does seem to capture the business issues.
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
Now that Boston has its sleeper returned, why not a sleeper on the Federal? Surely Amtrak could run a sleeper up from New York which could connect with the Lake Shore. Perhaps a same day connecion would be too tight, but eventually the sleeper would need to go to New York for servicing, so why not restore the Federal?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Royal, even if an assignment such as NYP-49(1)-CHI-448(2)-BOS-67(3)-WAS-66(4)-BOS-449(5)-CHI-48(6)-NYP could be established and the turns at Boston be made without delay, the one additional car required could well be the straw to break the camel's back.
Bureaucracies are not Southwest Airlines; their stock in trade is playing it safe, and such an aggressive assignment is not in the playbook. There surely would be a protect car assigned to Boston.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
On the Lakeshore Ltd I took back from Chicago a few days ago, there were 2 sleepers, then a dining car, then 2 or 3 more coach cars all heading to NYC while a lounge/snack car (for those of you familiar only with Superliners, I am speaking only of the one-level regular Viewliner lounge/snack car) with I believe just passenger car adjoining it (and a luggage car? sorry I forgot to look) were delinked at the 'Y' just before entering the Albany Rensselaer station and heading to Boston. After they delinked, the Boston "shuttle" pulled into the station on a different track from the NYC-bound LSL; Boston-bound passengers in sleepers (or the NYC coaches, if there were any there--I was up by sleepers and did not see) got off in the Albany-Rensselaer station and crossed the tracks to board the Boston-bound "shuttle." More than one Amtrak employee on the LSL told me that a Boston-sleeper was going to be added probably some time in April, which would be part of the delinked cars sent on to Boston too!!!
I did not ask about this, but given the equipment shortage, I wondered afterward--assuming they are really reinstating the Boston sleeperas I was told--if the sleeper service might perhaps be seasonal, taken off a Florida sleeper for the warmer season, when the LSL is busier and trains to FL are less busy.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Interesting observations you made, Ms. Sojourner.
From such, it appears that #448's cars handled on the rear of #48 are cut at the yards immediately after X-ing the Hudson yet North of the Depot. 448 and 48 then make their station stops at ALB as separate trains.
Since last I knew, the two P-42 units from #48 handles #448 onward to BOS, and a single P-32ACDM handles #48 onward to NYP, presumably that change is also made at the yards (Maintenance Facility in Amtrakese).
This handling certainly makes sense, and while I can't be certain, a yard engine may not be needed. It appears that the whole operation is a "cut the Boston power', "back the NY power down", "pull the pin on the Boston cars", "back down the Boston power",,,and highball.
Regarding your thoughts that the Boston Sleeper may only be seasonal, time will tell. I still will be interested to learn what "pol" leaned on Amtrak to make this service enhancement, as I highly doubt the initiative to do so originated @ 60 Mass.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
We all knew about it, but today it's official. Note new departure times in this handout from Amtrak Media Relations:
SLEEPING CAR SERVICE TO BE RESTORED BETWEEN BOSTON AND CHICAGO
Eastbound Lake Shore Limited to depart Chicago an hour earlier; Ridership for the route is up 1.9% since October 2008
BOSTON and CHICAGO – The Amtrak Lake Shore Limited will offer sleeping car service between Chicago and Boston to better suit our passengers needs, starting with the eastbound departure of Trains 48/448 on April 2 from Chicago and the westbound departure of Trains 49/449 from New York and Boston on April 4. The eastbound Train 48/448 will depart Chicago an hour earlier than the existing schedule, also effective on April 4. The restoration of sleeping car service provides a higher level of comfort than can be provided in coach for passengers riding to and from Boston (South Station) and the Massachusetts stops of Framingham, Worchester, Springfield and Pittsfield. Until now, Bay State passengers were required to change trains in Albany-Rensselaer, N.Y., to ride to and from points in Western N.Y., Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana and Illinois, including Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland, South Bend and Chicago.
“Our Lake Shore Limited service continues to post ridership gains and these changes are aimed to better serve our passengers needs by further improving their travel experience to and from Boston,” said Carol Gambrel, Director, Product Management.
The Lake Shore Limited is one of six trains that are getting an intense focus to improve revenue, ridership, and to drive customer service improvements across the Amtrak system.
“We continue to rely on customer and employee feedback to enhance service on routes across the Amtrak system, and the Lake Shore Limited is a prime example of what can be achieved by listening to and acting upon suggestions from both groups,” said Emmett Fremaux, Vice President of Marketing & Product Management, who heads the Route Performance Improvement program. Schedule Changes
As part of this change, the eastbound Train48/448 will depart Chicago at 9:00 p.m., local time, and most timing will change across the route (schedule attached), effective April 4. Amtrak will continue to open the Dining Car for a pre-departure Welcome Aboard reception that is complimentary to sleeping car passengers who are pre-boarded at 8:00 p.m., while coach passengers will find the Lounge Car open as they board.
There is a also a slight change to the schedule of Train 49, the westbound Lake Shore Limited, as it arrives in Albany-Rensselaer, due to track work on the Metro North Commuter Railroad, north of New York City.
Ridership
In figures for the five months ending Feb. 28, 2009, 130,352 passengers rode on the Lake Shore Limited, an increase of 1.9 percent from the same period a year earlier. Ticket revenue is up by more than $844,000 and is in excess of $9.1 million for the five months that begin the current Amtrak fiscal year.
Amtrak ridership for overnight trains is also up for the Oct. 2008-Feb. 2009 period. The total of 1,628,631 passengers is an increase of seven percent from the year-ago figure and includes double-digit increases for several routes on the national network.
Posted by Judy McFarland (Member # 4435) on :
Is that message saying there will be a diner AND a lounge car on the LSL? That will be something new - I don't remember there being both in the consist when I've taken this train in recent years.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
There was a diner and a lounge car when I was on it a couple of weeks ago (although the Boston sleeper had not yet been added). The diner was just behind the sleepers. The lounge car was behind some coaches, and in front of the Boston coach. I believe that lounge car travels with the Boston coach (and will travel with reistated Boston sleeper) all the way to Boston. I imagine some sort of dinner might also be afforded sleeper passengers to Boston, even if their arrival time is now an hour earlier--but I'm not sure. I don't think dinner is offered to NYC bound passengers--it gets in around 7:30 there (but that will be earlier too with the new departure time).
I like the 9pm departure time better than 10 (and hopefully all western trains will be in by then, though you never know with the Zephyr!)
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
Judy,
I have ridden the LSL many times. Both from Springfield, MA to Cleveland (Daur lived near there for quite awhile) and also through to Chicago for trips out west.
I have never ridden this train when there was not both a Diner and a Lounge car. Have always had Dinner in the Diner (and sometimes Breakfast when going the distance to Chicago).The Lounge car has been the source for many cups of coffee. Back in the day it also was a smoking lounge for those so addicted (reformed smoker here).
I too applaud the earlier departure from Chicago, only because it means reaching home and hour earlier. (I am usually already asleep when the train pulls out of Chicago.)
Nice to know that Amtrak has paid attention to the questionaires they sent to those of us that rode the LSL Boston section over the past few years. The return of the sleeper car from Boston through to Chicago will be well received by many of us.
Dee
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
As of a few moments ago, there remains space open on the maiden voyage of the 448(02) Sleeper line. Of interest, the rate for a Roomette and Bedroom are within $1.00 of one another.
That's supply and demand pricing for you!!
WW maiden voyage 449 (04) is also open; however at this time such is considerably more pricier than EW.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
As of 5:30 am Monday 3/30 GBN's information still holds true -- roomettes on 448 (2) are $369 and bedrooms $370.
Listed departure time is 10 pm.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Watch out; one of the two Bedrooms on EW 448(02) will sell and the rate will jump to that in the range of that prevailing for 449(04).
Hopefully that will be as a resuilt of someone here choosing to do a joyride in a Bedroom at a Roomette rate.
Ain't a gonna be me as I'm "tapped out' of both travel desire and $$$ ($2372.70 of 'em lest anyone curious, but worth every penny of such) after completing my "six days on the road and I'm a gonna make it home tonite".
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
At 5:30 pm CDT the $369/$370 spread for 448 (2) still obtained. All right, which of us is going to spring for the joyride?
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: At 5:30 pm CDT the $369/$370 spread for 448 (2) still obtained. All right, which of us is going to spring for the joyride?
I'm in need of such a joyride BUT since positioning myself for it would mean flying to Chicago......well.......there goes the bargain, no?
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
It's still $369/$370 as of 9:11 am CDT Tuesday 3/31. Hmm . . . if those remaining bedrooms on 448 (2) aren't sold by, say, 4 pm Thursday 4/2, will Amtrak drop the price?
I'm tempted, I'm tempted. But it might be very expensive to get back to Chicago from Boston, unless the ride is the Big Dog . . . ugh.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
As of a few moments ago, Mr. Kisor, there are, IMHO, "attractive" One Way KBOS to KORD fares (save a 5PM flight) available on UA departing Apr 4. Returning on "arf-arf" would certainly remove any "joy" from the "ride'.
However, should you go, remember no corkscrew to serve EW libations other than one you are prepared to allow TSA to add to their collection.
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
I don't know about all this "maiden voyage" talk. Let me point out that there was a through sleeper from Boston on the LSL for most of the time I have been riding that train (since 1986). It was taken off I think sometime in late 2004, and therefore has only been gone for less than five years!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
You of course have a point, Bob; likely the term "restoration" should be substituted for "maiden voyage".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Rail Sale is over; while as of a few moments ago a Bedroom is still available, check the rate BOS to CHI on 449(04).
Also, have some smelling salts handy.
"Restoration Run" starts tonight with 448(02).
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
That fare shows imagination! I was looking ahead to the middle of the month and notice that in either direction the ALB/REN to Boston portion is by bus. Is there maintenance going on then?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Brief passage (gottaluv Amtrak spokesman Mr. Rosenwald's analogy):
"We're going after a different market than those people who might fly," said Brian Rosenwald, Amtrak's chief of product management. "We are catering to a leisure market where people might be interested in the advantages of train travel, which would include a day away from day-to-day aggravation, a chance to see the countryside, and enjoy freshly prepared meals - kind of a minicruise concept on land, rather than on sea."
As of a few moments ago, both Roomettes and Bedrooms remain available for the "restoration run" 449 (04); while the Roomette rate remains "attractive'...uh "let's not go there' regarding the Bedroom.
Posted by Bob from MA (Member # 4686) on :
Today I was able to inspect #449 when it stopped at Worcester and I can confirm that the Boston sleeper has indeed been restored to that train. The consist was as follows: engine, baggage car, Viewliner Sleeper # 62006 (College View), Coaches #25057 and #25123 and Dinette #53509. A couple boarded the sleeper here, but it otherwise looked fairly empty.
If anyone on the forum keeps track of Amtrak's rolling stock, perhaps you can determine where they got that sleeper (and the others required to equip this train). It must have come from some other route's inventory, unless the program to rebuild damaged cars is well underway.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
There are now only two Sleeper lines on 48-49 as one was reassigned to 448-449.
Reportedly there is one Viewliner presently out of service account wreck damage; such arose from the recent Lake Shore derailment incident near South Bend. It appears damage was minor and there should not be any reason the car won't be returned to service.
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
GBN,
So you're saying that there were 3 sleepers to NYP and they took one of those to go to Boston and 2 to New York. Which means no change in the consist from Albany west to Chicago? I'm slow and need to take small steps.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Black, there are still three sleepers in the 49/449 consist ALB-CHI; however, one is now on the head with 449's Coaches and Food Svc Car.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)