quote:Originally posted by CoastStarlight99: USA RAIL GUIDE
That's one of my favorite websites. Very helpful in planning trips.
Anton - did you use the station pictures to help you decide to go to Albuquerque on your upcoming trip? I couldn't help but wonder when I saw that your plans had changed.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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No, I actually liked the small station in Lordsburg alot, the only reason why I changed my reservation was for the fact that if I left on a Friday from L.A., I would have to stay 3 nights in Lordsburg before a westbound train came going towards L.A...Hopefully I will be able to go on the Sunset sometime this summer. Hopefully the SWC will be enjoyable too. Its a LD Amtrak train so it should be an adventure! Posts: 1082 | From: Los Angeles, CA. USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by CoastStarlight99: No, I actually liked the small station in Lordsburg alot, the only reason why I changed my reservation was for the fact that if I left on a Friday from L.A., I would have to stay 3 nights in Lordsburg before a westbound train came going towards L.A...Hopefully I will be able to go on the Sunset sometime this summer. Hopefully the SWC will be enjoyable too. Its a LD Amtrak train so it should be an adventure!
There's a movie from the early 1980's called 'Continental Divide'. In the last 10-15 minutes of the movie the two main characters are on a fictional Amtrak trip from Chicago to Wyoming. I say fictional because the train is stopping at places Amtrak has never gone like Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
Anyway, they get off the train in Wyoming and the male character, played by the late John Belushi, goes to the ticket agent and asks "When is the next train to Chicago?" Agent replies "30 minutes." Belushi asks "When is the next one after that?" Agent says "Three days."
THAT's what you're describing with the Sunset!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I just got back from parts of North Carolina where the [passenger] trains don't run anymore. Although the frieght trains still are rumble by the Station Depot in Black Mountain is now a antique and art gallery but the old red caboose next to the depot is as it was when it last ran. It has numerous old photos of the old southern railways. The station in Biltmore Village is now a pub and restraunt. It must have been nice to travel up to Ashville by train. Anyone know if there use to be a Station in Downtown Ashville? My what vacation homes a Monopoly can build.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Yes, there was a main station in Asheville that was 2.1 or 2.0 miles northwest of Biltmore, depending upon what vintage timetable you are looking at. If you go to topozone for Asheville and follow along the rail road from Biltmore junction to the west and then north, you can find it still shown on the USGS 1:24,000 quad. The station itself so far as I know is long since gone. It ceased to be used in the mid 60's. While Southern was still running its own trains during the early Amtrak era, they terminated at Biltmore. I have seen postcard views of it on some web sites that deal with Southern RR history and western North Carolina. An impressive building somewhat similar in style to Birmingham Terminal station. I have no idea what it left on the ground now. It could be anything from the building itself to the platforms lost in the weeds to nothing at all.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I thought I heard that North Carolina (which I believe has invested a nice chunk in Amtrak, compared to many other states) was looking into starting up some sort of passenger service to the Asheville area--if not Amtrak, then a state system linked to it, I can't remember details. I wonder if that is still in contemplation, or if the terrible budget woes affecting most states have put it on the shelf.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: I thought I heard that North Carolina (which I believe has invested a nice chunk in Amtrak, compared to many other states) was looking into starting up some sort of passenger service to the Asheville area--if not Amtrak, then a state system linked to it, I can't remember details. I wonder if that is still in contemplation, or if the terrible budget woes affecting most states have put it on the shelf.
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To save fishing around, the essence is that North Carolina would like to start the service, but the line is currently quite congested with freight, and the cost of getting the additonal capacity and improving the speed is estimated to be above $100 million. At this time NS is not interested in cooperating and the money is not there. Look for North Caroline to put on some form of Raleigh to Wilmington service before the Western North Carolina service happens.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: To save fishing around, the essence is that North Carolina would like to start the service, but the line is currently quite congested with freight, and the cost of getting the additonal capacity and improving the speed is estimated to be above $100 million. At this time NS is not interested in cooperating and the money is not there. Look for North Caroline to put on some form of Raleigh to Wilmington service before the Western North Carolina service happens.
Pretty fair assessment. Norfolk Southern has seemingly wanted a good bit of money from the state in order to make the neccessary 'improvements' before permitting passenger service on the line to Asheville. I say 'improvements' because the line is in better shape now than it was when Southern Railway halted passenger service here in August 1975. The NCDOT has been working on this for a decade now and has even restored a couple of the old depots along the route in anticipation of 'someday' getting service back to Asheville.
Beyond the condition of the track though, the real frustration is that since the Norfolk Southern merger (early 1980's), a good bit of the freight traffic which used to move through Asheville on the Southern Railway now moves through Roanoke and Bristol, VA on the former Norfolk & Western. There is actually considerably less freight moving through Asheville now than there was 20 years ago. There are perhaps only half as many locomotives moving through the fuel racks in Asheville as there were a decade ago. Norfolk Southern could, with sufficient incentive, work in a passenger train on the Asheville line. The NCDOT has been unable to meet their price so far.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Part of the issue also is the shut down of the Asheville and Spartanburg through Saluda. Freight that used to go that way now makes to long detour through Salisbury. Apparrently they decided that the labor saving was worth the much longer route. The diesel fuel price may change that picture. Maybe rebuilding the A&S to get the 4.7 to5.1% grade down to 2.0% needs doing. Anybody got a $150 million or so hanging around?
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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...have been looking forward to an AMTRAK line to Asheville for years, and wish they would hurry up and get it going. That would be a perfect line to add a scenic dome car or two.
Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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Yeah, ten years seems a little long. I wish we would get it going all over the country. It's not just this region that could benefit from having train service again. Maybe someday they'll realize that it's an economical way to move people, and give it its fair share of the construction and operation money, and then passenger rail would be a major travel choice that people used.
Posts: 144 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Well, if they ever get it going, I for one hope to be a customer!
Any chance it would go into Tennessee? Where do the freight lines go after Asheville?
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Well, if they ever get it going, I for one hope to be a customer!
I'd also love a train from Savannah to Atlanta. It would be great to be able to reach the Crescent from Florida trains without going all the up to Washington DC!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Part of the issue also is the shut down of the Asheville and Spartanburg through Saluda. Freight that used to go that way now makes to long detour through Salisbury. Apparrently they decided that the labor saving was worth the much longer route. The diesel fuel price may change that picture. Maybe rebuilding the A&S to get the 4.7 to5.1% grade down to 2.0% needs doing. Anybody got a $150 million or so hanging around?
Sojourner -
Asheville is a rail junction of sorts. One line arrives from Knoxville, TN by coming in from the northwest alongside the French Broad River. Continuing eastward there is the now closed Saluda Mountain line to Spartanburg and Columbia, SC or the active Old Fort Mountain line to Hickory and Salisbury, NC. It is the latter which is under consideration by NCDOT for a passenger train to Asheville. Very unlikely such a train would extend into Tennessee.
George-
As always you make a significant contribution to the discussion and the Saluda closure is relavant. I debated going there in my earlier post but decided not to. I think I was counting on your knowledge of operations in this area to bring it up.......subconciously of course.
There have been rumors here in Western North Carolina for the last 6 months or so that NS is, in fact, studying the possibility of reopening the Saluda Mountain grade. The tracks are still in place albeit with a couple of rails turned aside and a mountain of dirt blocking the track on either end of the embargoed 30-some miles.
At the time Saluda Mountain was closed, I was working about two miles from where the northern (or western by RR timetable) barricade was placed and within earshot of a portion of the railroad that is now closed. The line carried it's last revenue train in December 2002. I recall hearing what must have been some sort of inspection train on the line in April 2003. The barricades were not put in place until late 2003.
In terms of traffic levels just before the closure, some days I would hear a train and others I would not. Maybe once a month I would hear two trains between the hours of 7:30am - 3:30pm. By this time, there were maybe 4 freights a day (and some days 6) traversing Saluda.
I would say that, at most, the Saluda closure has added maybe 4 trains a day to the Asheville-Old Fort-Salisbury line. Even with this increase in traffic on the Old Fort mountain line, rail freight traffic is still roughly 30% lower on it than when Southern Railway still operated passenger service on the line 30 years ago.
Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone. I'm leaving out-of-town shortly and won't be back on-line until Saturday evening.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Interesting to see you say the overall voume of trains on the WNC is down, despite teh Saluda closure. That is not the impression you get form the information available on the NCDOT web site on this line.
Most of the goodies being shown for this line in the reports appear to be orieted toward trying to squeeze a little more speed out of it. In the days of Southern RR service, average speeds were in the 30 mph range.
Getting on into Tennessee from Asheville: Not very likely without megabucks being spent. Speed is also the problem for trains west out of Asheville. The Carolina Special took 4 hours to get between Asheville and Knoxivlle, and it is not much over 100 miles, but you follow every turn of the French Broad River. Beautiful ride, but never a dome. The Tennessean took just over 24 hours to get from Washington DC to Memphis, with slightly over six of them being on the 240 miles between Bristol and Chattanooga, and the schedule was somewhat optomistic, in that everything had to go right for it to be made. And, in the near 40 years since those trains ceased to run, the track is no faster than it was then.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Interesting to see you say the overall voume of trains on the WNC is down, despite teh Saluda closure. That is not the impression you get form the information available on the NCDOT web site on this line.
Getting on into Tennessee from Asheville: Not very likely without megabucks being spent. Speed is also the problem for trains west out of Asheville. The Carolina Special took 4 hours to get between Asheville and Knoxivlle, and it is not much over 100 miles, but you follow every turn of the French Broad River. Beautiful ride, but never a dome. George
Nor is it the impression you get from Norfolk Southern. However, in the weeks leading to the closure of Saluda, NS indicated to the local media that freight traffic through Asheville was down so significantly that the Old Fort line could easily absorb the two remaining roundtrips using Saluda.
It was a mere six months later, when NCDOT talk of Asheville passenger service heated up again, that NS started talking about how 'congested' their line to Salisbury was. To that I say, Southern Railway carried more trains on that line more effieciently than NS ever has.....albeit slowly BUT a slow train to Salisbury beats none at all.
It has literally been one roadblock after another.....a real frustration for those who wish to take the train to Western North Carolina and also for those of us who would love to take the train FROM Western North Carolina.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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