posted
Will Iowa Pacific be on the job July 1 or no?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Well I guess the other Hoosier State topic got off topic with mention of musical instruments, equines, and $70 taxicab ripoffs.
To look at the website for a July Wednesday CHI departure would suggest no change. But with any politically driven change, which is simply conservative Indiana saying "if we have to pay for this train, we're gonna kick those Washington libbies out of it". Saving $$$ is the least of concern.
I'm not saying "never happen" as I continue to with All Aboard Florida, but I think the July deadline will come and go.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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And the other Hoosier State thread hadn't been updated in 3 weeks or so. The silence coming out of the Hoosier State about the Hoosier State is deafening!
My summer is getting filled up with other stuff already and it looks like holding a three-day stretch open to ride a cheap dome car out of Indianapolis won't be necessary after all!
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sounds like most are optimistic it will start July 1 but with federal inspections, who knows?
I think with the money IP has already invested in this operation, they will do what it takes to be in compliance. I did see one comment from them: "Iowa Pacific team is very excited for the start of Hoosier State and we hope to show the general public how train travel is supposed to be!"
I remain optimistic and, since GBN brought up politics, I find it ironic that if it begins operation it will be done with a Republican state administration's full support, including funding.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote: Ellis said he made the decision to pull the staffing resources he had working to bring passenger rail service to Oklahoma in order to focus on Indiana. “Indiana is moving along,” Ellis said. “We are trying to get that one done before we do anything else. Indiana we hope to get done this summer.”
Wise decision, in my opinion.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
If October of a couple of years ago is anything to go by, where I was booked on the first cancelled service, then I wouldn't be surprised if people waiting in the dungeons of Indianapolis station find out just at boarding time whether it'll be Amtrak, IP, an AmBus, or nothing at all.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Summer is coming Palmland and I hope to have the time to be more active here again...... also moving into the last phases of settling my Mom's estate and hope to wrap that up by August. I've just been distracted for the last year or so.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Referring to the quotation Mr. Vincent immediately captioned, it appears that the "slip" is starting.
"We hope to get done this Summer" is not exactly saying the service begins effective July 1.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Agreed...... if July 1 were happening, I would think that it would have been announced by now.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Don Kalkman shared his photo of a test run Sunday of the equipment for the Hoosier State. Ed Ellis, when asked if all approvals have been received for July 1 start responded:
"Getting close. Not quite there yet." Apparently the FRA running test is all that's left to do, per Ellis:
"The equipment passed inspection last week (FRA, ADA, FDA, Amtrak, etc.) and before the Chicago-Indy test run we wanted to try it out at speed, make sure locomotives make transition, MU works, etc. Metra is GREAT to work with and was willing to host (at a reasonable cost) test runs on Sunday which is their lightest day, so we were able to conduct running tests prior to the FRA-required running tests."
Sounds like everyone is committed to make this happen.Some of the work done on the equipment:
"We installed forward-facing cameras at Amtrak's request, with the same data interface they use on their locos. The cars had upgrades to water systems, air conditioning, restrooms, emergency lighting/exit path, etc."
I think this will happen, whether it's July 1 or a week or two later.
posted
Having been in Indianapolis this past weekend with my friends (he Educator, she Social Worker; both "Ready for Hillary", and she Real Estate Broker; 'we don't talk politics"), I somehow think there wasn't a soul in the Westin Hotel there other than me who knew the first thing about this saga. That includes the Hotel's Concierge staff.
I too think this will happen. It won't save the taxpayers a dime and in fact will cost them some. But their elected officials will be able to say "we put those Washington bureaucrats off our train".
No doubt, Ellis and IPH will put best foot forward, and I guess the Dome, Business Class, and Food Service will be an attraction for some. But to the average passenger, we are still looking at a train that takes 5hrs to do a run I drove in 3'20" (3'45" return account fuel stop), and leaves and arrives at hours useless to most.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
We could try to be positive and hope that IP are pro-active enough to hammer home a deal on a re-route to the IC/CN into Chicago, saving an hour on run times.
Amtrak, in the meanwhile, may have tenatively suggested invoking a feasibility study into the possibility of commissioning a study into the potential of asking CN for a re-route. By 2020 at the latest.
Cynical, moi?
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Unless I'm imagining something, I believe Mr. Norman mentioned the Peoria & Eastern for the re-route, and then deleted it. I've no idea on the feasibility of such.
However, the re-route touted as far back as 2010 (PDF: FY10 Performance Improvement Plan, Cardinal - Amtrak) is using the route of the City of New Orleans from the outskirts of Chicago to CUS. There was (yet another) report a couple of years ago that mentioned same.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
That is correct Mr.Mayo, as on second thought, I started to realize that you were addressing an interchange between the C&WI (Monon's access to Chicago) and the IC, thence access to CUS. This of course is not running via Champaign thence P & E to Indy, and therfore I deleted the posting.
posted
Memo to states; don't try to kick the Feddies out of anything they don't want to be kicked out of.
This matter will be in court before any contract with a party other than Amtrak to operate Hoosier State is effected.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
If I may be allowed to summarize this matter as succinctly possible, I don't think the issue is whether or not which sector, public or private, represents a better operator of the Hoosier State. This is simply an issue between Local governments (state and municipalities served) who choose, because they are paying for it, to have a responsible private sector operator, rather than a Federal agency accountable to their "massahs 10000ft apart along Pennsylvania Ave in UNOWARE (and I don't mean Indy)", operate what they consider as "their" train. Whether it costs them more is a "non-issue" (ask me, it will).
The Federal agency, Amtrak (forget all that bovine plop about "it's private"), is fearful that this Indiana initiative is the "finger in the dike'. Other local jurisdictions that sponsor many more passenger trains than Indiana could follow suit - most vulnerable would be those governed by conservative factions. Since the Long Distance trains could be gone simply by US Congress' fiat, Amtrak could potentially, albeit far fetched, be looking at their "national system" comprising the Northeast Corridor. Just think how that scenario would play within the funding ring.
Finally, I believe Iowa Pacific Holdings has been injured as a result of this charade, and I would not be surprised if they seek legal remedies through the judiciary.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:“Of course we’re eager to get going, so we were disappointed," says Iowa Pacific President Ed Ellis, who says he thinks his company could start running the trains within a matter of days after a contract is signed. But he insists it’s not Iowa Pacific holding that process up.
“We believe that ours is pretty much fully negotiated," Ellis says. "We haven’t signed it yet, because we don’t want to sign it until INDOT signs with Amtrak. But we believe that once theirs is signed, the steps involved in signing ours are really short.”
So, what is the problem? The Mayor of West Lafayette went to Washington DC to meet with Amtrak CEO Joe Boardman and the Mayor is quoted as saying:
quote:“Everybody is enthusiastic about continuing this service – that’s what’s so ironic," ... "Everybody wants this to happen. But Joe [Boardman] also brought up the fact that he said ‘Hey guys, remember – we’re basically asked to subsidize our competitors on our rails.’”
If true, that would be a very strange attitude for Mr. Boardman to take. Unless I've suddenly become unable to read accounting statements, the Hoosier State has never been profitable for Amtrak and why should Amtrak be guaranteed the right to run an inefficient operations?
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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Apparently all paperwork completed but a question still remains about a switch in Indianapolis between CSX and IP's servicing area.
For those who enjoy the finer things in rail travel, sounds like Mr. Ellis has the right idea:
'Iowa Pacific Holding’s president Ed Ellis tells Trains New Wire that for the first month while Amtrak incorporates new pricing into its reservation system, passengers may sit in the dome and will pay for meals and beverages served there instead of having food included in the ticket price.
“We want to give people a chance to sample our version of business class,” which will be similar to breakfasts and dinners served on Pullman Rail Journeys excursions from Chicago to New Orleans and other destinations,”
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
From a review of the timetable, it appears that the IP Hoosier State equipment must make a deadhead move West on Mo and East on Tu; . I have now learned that the equipment is handled "dead" as part of 50-51, Cardinal's, consist. I'm sure both Amtrak and EEE were aware of this little factoid of life, wonder if INDOT was in their zeal to have an operator other than Amtrak?
850-851 likely have a crew consist of Cond and Asst as part of their assignment is 50-51, Cardinal, which requires such. Three cars, to my knowledge, can be handled by Conductor only under the Labor Agreement.
Since Mon and Tues, especially the latter, are slow days for personal travel, it is pointless to consider ways that on those days, there could be revenue runs for the IP equipment set on a complimenting schedule.
Otherwise, it appears that the equipment does "more sitting around" at Indy than anywhere else. IP has likely had to build far more of a maintenance facility there than otherwise would be needed if the equipment sat overnight and turned. Once again, EEE was certainly aware of such (come on volks; he does have an MBA in Transportation from Northwestern; so does at least one of his aide-de-camps), and built into the contract a recovery of those costs. Again was INDOT in their zeal?
One must wonder why two engines for three cars. There certainly are facilities to turn trains at CUS; one would think there also is at Indy. Since the equipment comprises a "rolling museum" and the Amtrak mechanical expertise on the F-40 based locomotives is certainly on the wane and never was on CSX away from wherever their Executrain lives, was this an Amtrak and/or CSX requirement?
Finally, who knows, maybe I'll just put some joyride "copper in Mr. Ellis' hopper". Can't do it this week, as Goldendoodle Murphy is with me. Nor next, as I'm going to Salzburg again. After I return and am "de-lagged", I just might go to Lafayette (Indianapolis is simply "too late arr and too early dep"). There is a Holiday Inn within a walk of the train station.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
And it looks like there was a Monday evening bustitution for the IP Hoosier State because the equipment wasn't out of the yard in time to deadhead to Chicago with the Cardinal.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Stuff happens, including on one of the deadhead trips, as reported elsewhere, Amtrak "forgot" to handle the IP equipment.
All told, I trust that EEE only signed a contract with both Amtrak and INDOT to cover his costs. For the life of me, I fail to see how INDOT saves a dime with this charade. I think that someone just plain didn't care - they just wanted to say to the voters "we kicked Washington out".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I hope this project succeeds because it's an improvement over Amtrak's version of the Hoosier State, but it isn't a model for what I would like to see on other corridors. IP's incremental improvement over Amtrak's service isn't a leap into the 21st century for passenger rail transportation. In fact, it's a recreation of the failed model of the 20th century passenger rail system. If Indiana truly wants to build a meaningful passenger rail corridor between Indianapolis and Chicago, they will have to commit to significant infrastructure improvements, modern equipment and more than 4x a week service.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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Gottaluv the reporting in Mr. Hill's immediate link; present running time is three hours (vice five). I guess it could be driven in three depending on one's "interpretation" of the 70mph Indiana posted speed. I drive it several times a year; I need 3.5
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Google Maps reports current eatimate Chicago Union Station to Indianapolis Union Station as 3 hours 13 minutes.
Note that construction reported has Googlemaps route engine move the route from I-65 to US-52 between Lebanon and Lafayette.
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Mr. Ellis hopes to increase runs by installing side tracks and upgrading CSX tracks to allow both passenger trains and freight trains to run concurrently. His estimate is $500 million. I have to wonder....Indiana balked at giving the project 3 million.
The thought is that a 2 hr trip is possible. I can't see how that can be accomplished. Could a bullet train do it?
************************************ Not related to the above.. I use Google Maps and MapQuest quite a lot. They are a lot of fun. However, I think the services seem to pick out routes which represent the absolute shortest distances, often ignoring traffic snarls and excessive turnoffs, along the way. Sometimes a route following major roads and freeways, rather than a lot of side roads, could be easier even if it represents a slight increase in driving time.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Let's see" WISHTV, publishing date April 14, 2015
Call letters seem appropriate if this is a real station. (Is it?) Wishful thinking seems strong here. There might be business to get respectable passenger counts if the line is in place to do this, but not even sure of that. But to pay for the infrastructure to get there? Better look outside to see how much snow accumulation we have. Maybe the publication date is just a few days off and it should have been April 1.
I just don't see how there is business for 12 trains a day and even less how the track can be built to get the run time being postulated for anything that could possibly be justified. This is no where near the market that such a city pair as Dallas - Houston would be and we see how far that one has gotten so far.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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WISH is the call letters for the Indianapolis CW affiliate. I would guess that they picked up the "story" of "Dreams in Ellisland" from the Lafayette outlet WLFI and aired whatever; fact checking, uh what's that?
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Talked with Ed Ellis in Alamosa, CO today. He was quite optimistic about the future of the Hoosier State but wanted to get all bugs worked out before taking on his next operation in Oklahoma. Good plan.
To show what a little marketing will do, he built a concert venue in remote mountains near Fir, CO- on the route of his Rio Grande Scenic line to LaVeta. Runs a special weekend train in addition to regular train. Today it carried 300 passengers. Build it and they will come.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I was in Alamosa in June. There is a stunning array of vintage passenger equipment there awaiting a reason for renovation....... or to set up one heck of a museum to the American Streamliner.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
David, you do have to wonder about Ed Ellis' collection of passenger cars that are long past their prime. The Milwaukee road beaver tail observation-lounge-sleeper, Coffee Creek, was in his shop. While it looked good with its exterior primer coat, the interior had been gutted awaiting money to rebuild it. No timetable for completion.
We also did the shop tour of the Durango and Silverton railroad. Their shop was far superior in both size and types of equipment to that of both the Rio Grande Scenic and Cumbres and Toltec. But then with a passenger count of about 200k annually, they are definitely a going concern. And, when working on almost 100 year old locomotives, you don't just go to Lowes to get parts.
Ellis did have some interesting comments about working with Amtrak and passenger plans for the future.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
A quite comprehensive trip report appears elsewhere at the Trainweb site.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Good story, GBN, thanks for the link. Looking forward to your report on it.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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