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During May, I paid my Niece a visit in Brooklyn. Save a 2009 family wedding held in Fulton park between the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges, I had not set foot in the Borough of Brooklyn since 1955 when I went to a Dodgers ball game with my Father. When setting up this visit I can recall saying to my Niece "Annie, please do not forget I know my way around the Moon better than I do around Brooklyn".
So far as NY subways go, I can only claim familiarity with the IRT on Manhattan. Venturing around on the BMT and IND lines in the "outer boroughs" would essentially be a new experience for me.
First, I had to be "reeducated" that IRT BMT and IND are now "non terms"; my Niece, who has resided in Brooklyn for her entire married life since '04, said "oh I've heard those somewhere". So what follows are my "trip reports" from my IND and BMT lines during a four day visit over first weekend in May that originated either at 86 or 95 Sts. in the Bay Ridge area of Brooklyn.
First trip was Friday with my Niece and her child to Jay Street on "R" and a visit to the Transit Museum. Because of unruliness by "guess who" we almost missed the lower level of working subway cars. Now that the TBTA and NYCTA are one agency, I found the pictures of the Verrazano under construction as well as some of the earlier proposals to bridge The Narrows quite interesting. For the return, I got off by myself at 86st as that was closest stop to my hotel.
It doesn't seem as if "R" Trains are about to set any speed records; 30mph was about all they were going to go. Upstairs, 4th Ave. is "posted at 30"; reality? well.....
Saturday, time for another adventure. My Niece met me at the hotel and from there, well 86th, we rode "R" to Atlantic Ave. and a noontime concert at Brooklyn Academy of Music. We walked by Barclay Center - guess that is supposed to make me a sports fan. After the concert, we went to a "take it or leave it" restaurant (well that's me; my almost vegetarian Niece thought their Kale was wonderful) on Fifth Ave and Carroll St. After Lunch, my Niece had to split as she had to teach at the Conservatory. However, my Nephew who lives in Queens showed up with wife and child. After visiting "with a few", he led me to the Union St. "R" station and I was off for my first ride on my own - admittedly "having had a few". I got off without incident at 86th and now it is time for a "bigger adventure" on my own. This was a ride from 86st to DeKalb then transfer to "Q" to 57th St and a walk to Lincoln Center and a Philharmonic concert. The ride over the Manhattan Bridge was a first in a lifetime experience for me; of course I was the only one looking out at the beautiful view of Lower Manhattan. Now I'm starting to 'get my mojo" and feeling much more comfortable about the experience. When the "Q" got to 57th St. and 7th Ave, I said to myself "I know where I am" and decided enough subways, time for a walk. and so I walked to B'Way and 65th and Lincoln Center. The concert was great, and could well be the last time for me to hear Alan Gilbert conduct.
For the return, I took "D" (wasn't that former BMT?) from Columbus Circle, over the Manhattan Bridge to DeKalb and otherwise a reverse route to 86th. Aside from the lateness of the hour, I was really feeling "master of the universe"; well let's leave that as "of the NYC subways".
No rides Sunday (Mother's Day; and my Sister came in from Greenwich), but Monday it was time to go home. Having been bilked with a $70 taxicab ride from JFK that took 1.25 hours, I was not about to repeat that experience. So I was going to make like Duke Ellington and "take the "A" Train" to JFK. The transfer at Jay St. was becoming "old hat". The "A" runs Express into Queens so it moved along quite well, and the experience of traveling over the former LIRR to Howard Beach was a new one. While I'm not certain what the difference between Air Train and the people movers found at many an airport, it did its job and got me to Jet Blue comfortably before my return flight to O'Hare. Cost this time $7.75, of which $5 was the Air Train.
All told, my Subway rides were quite an experience. None of these journeys were a joy ride; they simply represented the most convenient way to get from here to there within three of New York's five Boroughs. I'm sure the $2.75 a ride far exceeds an inflation adjusted ride of $.15 (cents) that I remember from the '60's, but I always felt secure on the now clean trains. Be it assured that at such time, I make this trip again, such will not include $70 to sit in a Belt Parkway traffic jam.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I remember well the days of the graffiti covered subway cars in NYC. Take a ride out to a terminal station like Coney Island and you'll see every train being inspected for graf and the cleaning crew ready to erase any unauthorized scribble from the train.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Cost this time $7.75, of which $5 was the Air Train.
Another example of airports milking their customers of any spare change and then some. The Heathrow Express is, per-mile, supposedly one of the most expensive journeys in Europe at roundly £1.25 per mile ($1.91 USD).
Glad you survived the subway. I've had my fair share of gawping out the front window (not all lines unfortunately) and staring down tunnels from the station platforms.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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BART has a $4 surcharge for riding to SFO and the new line to OAK charges $6 to travel to the Oakland Coliseum Station. Seattle doesn't have an obvious surcharge on the light rail fare, but buying an electronic fare card (ORCA) costs $5.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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CTA also has a $2.75 surcharge for departing O'Hare which means $5.00 to get outta there.
Fortunately, for Seniors, i.e. moi, it does not apply; simply the usual $1.10. Blago's "free" was simply too much a gift (still available through the State's "Circuit Breaker" program - assistance to Seniors with established need) from our "broke" state.
There is still that barrier for those from out of town from attempting to use whatever electronic fare collection system - especially for us Seniors. In Atlanta, I've simply waited until a train (at Dunwoody station) has departed to spare those 'come on Gramps, what's takin' you so long" types from spiking their BP. In New York, I had my Niece to fill up my Metro Card. Here, there is a "customer service rep" at Clinton St (the CUS station for O'Hare) who, while they won't touch your cash, will "guide you" (CTA has same at O'Hare).
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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As soon as I read Mr. Norman speaking about the BMT, IT and IND lines, I knew that someone would be along soon to "re-educate" him. It sounds if you really got the hang of Brooklyn, Sir. I have been a Transit Museum member in years past, and look forward to seeing the exhibit of which you spoke.
Posts: 255 | Registered: Nov 2001
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Mr. Chatter, I was more than happy to pony up the $17 for 1AD, 1SR, 1CH, for NYTM, but needless to say, guess who decided what we were to look at and for how long (sure learned where the potty was down there).
But all told, should by Niece invite me again (I'm a low maintenance guest; I stay in hotels and rent cars when needed), I know one experience I'll happily do without - and that is the $70 taxicab ride from JFK.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I once tried taking local transit to LaGuardia from Manhattan. The trip involved riding the subway to Harlem and then transferring to a local route to complete the trip to LGA. The local bus was packed to the gills and really slow. Not expensive, but definitely not an experience I would recommend to others or plan on repeating myself.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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There's a real financial incentive to using rail from JFK to Midtown - Mr. Norman's $75 was a 'bargain."
LaGuardia's a different story -- closer in and not terribly expensive.
Above I left out Long Island Rail as an alternative from JFK. The JFK transfer line also connects to it. Haven't taken it but that goes to Penn Station, without local stops, if the Penn Central area is where you want to be.
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Lest we forget, this journey was "Destination Brooklyn", and JFK is the most convenient airport for such.
That I went into Manhattan (Lincoln Center) was an "on my own". A five-year and a three-year old have a way of dominanting one's life, but then, having had no experience in that facet of life, who am I to say?
Most times when my Sister in Greenwich is destination, I fly into HPN. From there, it is one hour from alighting the aircraft, to stepping into the rented car, to checking in at Hyatt in Greenwich. That has to be the most convenient airport to destination transfer I know.
Of course the downside is who ever heard of a fare war into HPN?
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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One of Duke Ellington's collaborators, Billy Strayhorn, had distant cousins in the town I've grown up in and was known to have visited them here in Southern Appalachia several times.... this being 15-20 years before I was born of course.
I have moved Mr. Presley's worthwhile quote to the referenced topic in that the "heads up" at the Amtrak Forum will be killed in a few days.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Mr. Norman: If the "A" train to JFK is what I think it is, one main difference is that it runs on two real rails unlike these various rubber tired, cable hauled, fake monorails, or whatever othere wierd forms of short haul fixed guideway transportation the airport planners can dream up. Likewise, if it is what I think it is, and you feel like it is a long haul from this train to the terminals themselves, blame the airport architects / planners that did not want a functional transportation system disturbing the lovely ambience of their facilities.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr. Harris, I stand corrected to the extent that Air Train has flanged steel wheels atop rails, but beyond that, as this Wikipedia article notes, it is one more "weird form of short haul fixed guideway".
Yes, it was a pretty good hoof into Jet Blue's terminal, but then so is the O'Hare CTA station.
I think many an airport authority held "OK, we gotta let mass transit in; but let's not make it too convenient for their passengers. After all, who butters our bread, the taxicabs, parking fees, and auto rentals".
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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The A NYC subway line seems to utilize the same technology and rails as other NYC lines. Have never noticed otherwise.
The A line's two differences from the E one are 1) it takes another route into Manhattan (via Brooklyn) with more stops and 2) you transfer to it from the Air Train at a different station.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Cost this time $7.75, of which $5 was the Air Train.
Another example of airports milking their customers of any spare change and then some. The Heathrow Express is, per-mile, supposedly one of the most expensive journeys in Europe at roundly £1.25 per mile ($1.91 USD).
Glad you survived the subway. I've had my fair share of gawping out the front window (not all lines unfortunately) and staring down tunnels from the station platforms.
Just had the downtown San Francisco to Oakland Airport experience. If I am remembering may remaining ticket value plus addfare addition, from Embarcadero to the Airport the total was $10.05 taken to get me off the horizontal cablecar at the airport. If I were to have gotten out the BART gate at the Coliseum instead of going up the escalator to that silly cablecar it would have cost me $3.85 instead. I could then have taken the Oakland bus No. 73 over to the airport for $1.05, or $2.25 if I were younger.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Of interest is that the CTA O'Hare is most convenient to Terminal 2, only Air Canada uses such as home terminal. Most of the gates are occupied by United and their puddle jumper "partners". For a United passenger to access Terminal 2, they are required to use United's facilities at Terminal 1 - that's a hoof from the CTA.
When the CTA was extended to O'Hare, they knew that United, the "hometown airline" was going to build a new Terminal 1 for their exclusive use (the former Terminal 1 was simply THE terminal for everyone serving O'Hare).
Ideally, there would have been a Loop at O'Hare enabling service to all terminals, but remember mass transit can't be TOO convenient, lest people beyond either working there or (me) looking for a "poor man's way" to get there might actually use it.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Of interest is that the CTA O'Hare is most convenient to Terminal 2, only Air Canada uses such as home terminal. Most of the gates are occupied by United and their puddle jumper "partners". For a United passenger to access Terminal 2, they are required to use United's facilities at Terminal 1 - that's a hoof from the CTA.
When the CTA was extended to O'Hare, they knew that United, the "hometown airline" was going to build a new Terminal 1 for their exclusive use (the former Terminal 1 was simply THE terminal for everyone serving O'Hare).
Ideally, there would have been a Loop at O'Hare enabling service to all terminals, but remember mass transit can't be TOO convenient, lest people beyond either working there or (me) looking for a "poor man's way" to get there might actually use it.
To be fair, the CTA goes into the center point of the three main terminal buildings, so that is sensible enough, otherwise there'd be an imbalance of transfers to other terminals. However, to get to the people mover to get to other terminals requires some navigation skills IIRC, and use of the people mover (or at least the access to/from the platforms) is best left to those with no luggage, prams, strollers, wheelchairs, or anything remotely bearing a resemblance to an airport traveler.
I'm not sure that loops would be entirely sensible. Seattle has three loops and they're quite frankly, loopy. One big loop, maybe, three completely independent and non-connecting, no.
LAX is quite possibly the worst I've experienced. From downtown LA you would need 2 or is it 3 different trains, followed by a bus transfer. There are plans to build a metro station at* the airport so you only need to do 2 (or is it 3) different trains, followed by a slightly shorter bus transfer.
* "at", in this case, means somewhere within a 2-mile radius of the control tower.
Sarcasm fully intended.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Somehow, LA ended up with different technologies for its Green and Blue rail lines.
If that were not already sadly the case, express trains could be run on existing track from Union Station to a station already existing just southeast of LAX. That service could have been extended to the terminals themselves.
The Green and Blue lines connect in one of the highest crime areas in the Metro.
Now, LA's well along in its planing to have light rail serve LAX branching of its Expo line (how close to terminals, I do not know).
That will include local stops all way between downtown and the airport. From what I've seen, the Expo line has not been designed for express trains to pass local ones (unlike some subway lines in NYC).
quote:Originally posted by Geoff Mayo: I'm not sure that loops would be entirely sensible. Seattle has three loops and they're quite frankly, loopy. One big loop, maybe, three completely independent and non-connecting, no.
I have made two trips to Seattle in the last few weeks. Few of the airports I have been through arise to the level of confusion that is Seattle. Now, over my working life I have been in and out of quite a few airports, including quite a few foreign ones in Asia.
In both cases I went out by Limo, and for the last which was to Tacoma the route out of the airport he took looked to be anything but main roads for the first couple of miles out. The first return was by Sound Transit rail, and it was probbaly a 30 minute walk from their station to the Southwest ticket counter. There is a crying need there for comprhensible signage as well as improved internal transport. If the job did not require it at times, I would avoid the place as a destination completely. We went through it several times while I was working in Taiwan, and I don't remember it as a big mess, but that was gate to gate with the same airline, so maybe we missed the confusion that way.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I visited the Transit Museum in Brooklyn today, and saw the Verrazano exhibit. Having grown up on Staten Island and read extensively on its history, there was not a lot of new content for me, but it was a very comprehensive exhibit for non-Staten Islanders who may not be familiar with the bridge and its impact. Thanks for mentioning it.
Posts: 255 | Registered: Nov 2001
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