Is the route of the three rivers the same as of the old Broadway limited? are there passenger trains that go on the famous horseshoe curve?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Only about half the route is the same.
Three Rivers is routed over the Baltimore & Ohio Pgh-Chi, Pgh-NY over the Pennsylvania RR.
The Three Rivers traverses Horseshoe Curve West of Altoona
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
My Spring 1995 timetable shows the following route and stops: New York, NY Newark, NJ Trenton Philly, PA Paoli Lancaster Harrisburg Lewistown Huntingdon Altoona Johnstown Greensburg Pittsburgh Youngstown, OH Akron Fostoria Garrett, IN Nappanee Hammond-Whiting Chicago
In other words, the same route taken by today's Three Rivers with the odd stop slightly different. It also carries the same train numbers (40 and 41) and runs roughly the same times. Mr. Norman, you may be talking about a different era perhaps?
Geoff M.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I stand upon my statement Mr. GeoffM
Absent emergency, I guarantee you that the Pennsylvania RR was not about to interchange their flagship to the B&O at Pgh. VV for the Capitol Ltd being interchanged to the PRR.
An Amtrak Broadway Ltd evidently was routed over the B&O; however that did not occur until the PRR was downgraded to such extent a passenger train could no longer be operated over it.
A May 1988 timetable I have shows a PRR routing through Canton, Crestline, Lima, Fort Wayne Valprasio, or roundly following US 30 rather than US6 in the case of the B&O.
Posted by Michael Christiansen (Member # 3604) on :
I will be taking the 3 Rivers in 12 days starting at NYP. I have heard much about this "horseshoe curve" through reading various posts on this board. What makes this so special? And, about how far into the trip should I expect to come across it? Thanks -Mike
Posted by graynt (Member # 17) on :
The Horseshoe Curve will come up about ten minutes upon leaving the Altoona station. It's a nice curve around the mountain and you can see the front and back of the train. Its a scenic view,but nothing as spectacular as the ride through the Rockies or Sierra Nevada on the Zephyr or the Raton Pass on the Chief, but it is one of the more scenic highlights of Amtraks Eastern trains. Sure would be nice to have a Sightseer Lounge Car to view it from. Stay on the left side of the train going Westbound.
Even before the Horseshoe curve, you ll find very pretty scenes near Lancaster of the Amish country and after leaving Harrisburg the train crosses the Susquehanna River and the scenery is very nice to Lewistown,the next stop.
Posted by Michael Christiansen (Member # 3604) on :
Is it safe to assume that the horseshoe curve will be travelled on during daylight hours? -Mike
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Out of luck.
#41 departs Altoona 721PM, however in the past I have had "Dutch Door' views after dark 'rounding the Curve' which were quite impressive.
Only problem, those views were during "railroad days'; Opening car doors is quite 'verboten' today.
Enjoy
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Mr Norman, are you saying that the pre-Amtrak route was different from the Amtrak route? If so, which did shanghaiamtrak mean? Until we know that, neither of us is right or wrong!
Geoff M.
Posted by espeefoamer (Member # 2815) on :
Before being rerouted over the B&O west of Pittsburgh, the Broadway ran all the way between NY and CHI on the PRR.
------------------ Trust Jesus,Ride Amtrak.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
Okay, just to clarify a bit for you more recent railfans. The original Pennsylvania RR main line ran from New York to Phila., Harrisburg, Altoona (Horseshoe Curve), and Pittsburg, thence via Youngstown, Canton, Lima, and Ft. Wayne to Chicago. That was the historic route of the "Broadway Ltd" (and lots of other trains).
In the early 1990s, Conrail announced that they were going to downgrade the former PRR west of Pittsburg and run freight from Pittsburgh to Cleveland and thence over the former NYC main through Toledo to Chicago.
In 1993, Amtrak re-routed the Broadway and the Capitol (#29/#30) which at that time both used the PRR west of Pittsburgh. The Broadway went to the B&O west of P'burgh, while the Cap was re-routed via Alliance, OH to Cleveland, thence west on the former NYC (same as the freight).
Not long thereafter, the Broadway was replaced with the Three Rivers on the same routing. The Cap continued to run via Alliance.
About five years ago, another small change was made to the Three Rivers route. Rather than use the former B&O west from Pittsburgh, the train was re-routed via Conrail to near Beaver Falls, PA and onto the B&O there. This was done to get Amtrak off the "Pittsburgh and Western" sub, which was a secondary CSX route (through freight uses the former P&LE through Pittsburgh.) The P&W is now operated by two short lines (B&P and Allegheny Valley) and no longer functions as a through route.
So that's the long answer.
Posted by MontanaJim (Member # 2323) on :
I didnt know there was a difference between the amtrak broadway limited route and the pre-amtrak route.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
No, Shanghai -- there was NO difference between the ORIGINAL (1971-93) Broadway Ltd AMTRAK route and the pre-AMTRAK route; however, I don't know what stations were served or not served by the original pre-AMTRAK route.
Posted by Rob Dehlinger (Member # 3700) on :
Hi!
RRich: The pre-Amtrak Broadway (Early 1971)
Stopped at: Gary (5th & Chase), Fort Wayne, Lima, Crestline, Canton, Pittsburgh, Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburgh, Lancaster, Paoli, N. Philadelphia, Trenton and Newark. In addition the westbound had a conditional stop at Valparaiso..
Cheers,
Rob
Posted by Rob Dehlinger (Member # 3700) on :
Hi!
And while I am at it: Amtrak added stops at Warsaw and Valparaiso,IN. And routed the train into 30th Street instead of N. Philadelphia.
Prior to its being combined with the General in 1967, I do not believe it stopped at Crestline or Canton either?