I really really miss them. Its too bad that they cant make new ones for the trains today. It would get more people to ride the trains.
Posted by pismobum (Member # 2628) on :
If "domes" made people ride trains, Montana Rockies Rail Tours (in YOUR area) who had 3 wouldn't have folded.
the average person cant afford the prices montana rockies was charging....
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
I agree, it would be nice if Amtrak brought back dome cars. I don't know if it would increase ridership that much, but at least it would be enjoyable for passengers. I can imagine sitting in one out west, or in the Adirondacks. Oh well, at least VIA still has'm, I just hope that they never get rid of them too.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Put a dome on a superline and then you will have a passenger car as tall as a double stack container train. Do we really want 3 story trains?
Posted by shanghaiamtrak (Member # 2323) on :
on the superliner cars, have the dome seating area be the top level.
Posted by shanghaiamtrak (Member # 2323) on :
what trains does VIA have domes on? just the mountaineer? Can coach passengers sit in there?
Thats got me thinking. If VIA isnt too expensive, i might take a small trip on them to try a dome. Wonder how much their fares are in US dollars for a two day trip through the rockies in coach....
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by shanghaiamtrak: what trains does VIA have domes on? just the mountaineer? Can coach passengers sit in there?
Thats got me thinking. If VIA isnt too expensive, i might take a small trip on them to try a dome. Wonder how much their fares are in US dollars for a two day trip through the rockies in coach....
VIA's 'Canadian' (Toronto-Winnipeg-Edmonton-Vancouver)is pretty reasonable in coach. Sleeper accomodations start to get pricey BUT they are cheaper through April and into mid-May.
Coach passengers have the use of the 'Skyline Cafe' car which is kind of a grill/lounge car with a dome. You won't be able to go back through the sleepers which will likely have their own skyline car plus the diner and the 'Park Car' dome observation on the end.
Warning.......once you have experienced the true dome car, the superliner observation car might not do it for you anymore.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
As David says, after you have ridden a true dome car nothing else will do. That was my point on the superliner. To function as a true dome, it has got to be higher than the normal car roof so you can have the forward view. That is the most important part of the true dome car experience. You get to see what is coming before it gets to you, you get to see the signals, etc. as you come up to them.
Unfortunately NCDOT is having to sell, or may they already have sold, their dome car because it does not meet current safety standards. Somehow if the Western NC service ever happens, it must have a dome.
George
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
I second what everyone else has said about dome cars. I might add that, on the Canadian, the dome windows are actually fairly clean also!!!! (unlike some AMTRAK trains I have ridden.....)
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
Very true, VIA actually washes their windows enroute, including at Jasper, for the Canadian. Riding in a dome car across the Canadian Rockies is just one experience one can never trump (of course riding across the CZ route in a dome car would be the best).
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris:
Unfortunately NCDOT is having to sell, or may they already have sold, their dome car because it does not meet current safety standards. Somehow if the Western NC service ever happens, it must have a dome.
George
Absolutely.......but at this point those of us living in Western North Carolina would settle for a tri-weekly DMU at this point.
The NCDOT has not found a taker for it's dome car yet.......and it is a lovely rail car.....albeit I would have preferred the better forward view from a typical Budd half dome.....you really didn't get much of a forward view in the super dome unless you were standing.
Posted by irish1 (Member # 222) on :
only rode two domes on amtrak. one was back in the 70's on the san francisco zeypher and they use to take the dome car off at denver when heading west. thats when they used the u.p. route threw wyoming. the city of nol used to have a dome in the 80's for awhile. i agree with geo harris the true dome is when you are above and can see the signals and everything coming.
Posted by NothinCouldBeFiner... (Member # 3832) on :
Whenever I've ridden on the Coast Starlight in the '80s and the last time in 1998 there has been a "dome" car or maybe it's called an observation car. It just seems I remember them calling it a "dome" car, though. Maybe it never really WAS an actual dome car after all? I remember it as a car with picture windows that kind of wrapped part way around the top. Swivel chairs and couches. There was also a little bar with a guy selling cocktails. It was upstairs.
quote:Originally posted by North American Railroader: I agree, it would be nice if Amtrak brought back dome cars. I don't know if it would increase ridership that much, but at least it would be enjoyable for passengers. I can imagine sitting in one out west, or in the Adirondacks. Oh well, at least VIA still has'm, I just hope that they never get rid of them too.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
You're thinking of a SuperLiner Sightseer Lounge (or possibly, on the Starlight, the Pacific Parlour Car if you were in the Sleepers). They are not true domes in the sense that the seating area is not higher than the conventional roof level. In a true dome you have vision forward and back as well as to the sides and up. As far as I know the Daylights and the successor Starlight never had true domes although I've seen private dome cars attached to the Starlight twice this month.
Frank in Blustery SBA
Posted by NothinCouldBeFiner... (Member # 3832) on :
Yeah...I just found some old pictures and it was the Superliner Sightseer Lounge. Oh, well! Thanks for your reply!
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: You're thinking of a SuperLiner Sightseer Lounge (or possibly, on the Starlight, the Pacific Parlour Car if you were in the Sleepers). They are not true domes in the sense that the seating area is not higher than the conventional roof level. In a true dome you have vision forward and back as well as to the sides and up. As far as I know the Daylights and the successor Starlight never had true domes although I've seen private dome cars attached to the Starlight twice this month.
Frank in Blustery SBA
Posted by North American Railroader (Member # 3398) on :
Truth be told, the Pacific Parlour Car is as close as Amtrak comes to having a dome, in the since that it is almost as good as one. However, this completely based on the great service and comfortable seats in this car. The fact is, a dome car, especially VIA's "Park" cars are the best, for sight and service.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
MANY MANY years ago, during AMTRAK's infancy, I seem to recall that the Sunset Ltd had a "Park"-style rear-end observation-dome-sleeper car. I believe I rode in that on my first ever long AMTRAK trip.
In "more recent" years (1980's), it seems that either the Starlight or the Sunset (or both?) also ran for a while with the old "full-length" dome cars. Of course, in the 1980's or 1990's, the Capitol Ltd (or was it the City of New Orleans?) also ran dome cars for a while.
Posted by pgrail (Member # 3877) on :
Besides the Canadian, Via has domes on the Skeena (Jasper-Prince George-Prince Rupert), the Ocean (Montreal-Halifax), the Chaleur (Montreal-Gaspe), and the Bras D'or (Halifax-Sydney). The Skeena and the Bras D'or also have the Park cars, plus the Ocean when Renaissance Cars aren't used.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Amtrak acquired four of the seven "Silver--" sleeper dome obs that were acquired for the California Zephyr by the CB&Q.
I do recall, Mr. Rich, those cars were once assigned to the Sunset. Another assignment they held was the North Coast Hiawatha.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
I first rode in a dome on the California Zephyr (the real one, not Amtrak's) in 1968, and after that no train was complete unless it had a dome.
Second dome ride was on B&O Capitol Ltd. east from Chicago in 1969.
My third and fourth dome rides were on SCL in 1970, when the Richmond - Miami dome sleeper went south on the Silver Comet I was on because of a special move of four chartered cars on the Florida Special. I came back on the Special, and thus got the dome on both routes.
Next dome rides were the summer of 1971, when Amtrak restored the SP "Stairway to the Stars" cars to the Coast Daylight. I also rode the Pleasure Dome on the Super Chief.
Then came Amtrak, and suddenly domes were on all sorts of routes that historically had not had them. Had several nice rides on James Whitcomb Riley/Cardinal, where the dome ran Newport News -- Chicago. Domes ran CHI to STL, MSP, NO, and of course all over the West. Of course, with the HEPping they all went away.
But Graham Claytor brought a few back, and I rode a dome on the Lake Shore (CHI to ALB). Never did get the dome on the Capitol -- both trips it was OOS for maintenance.
Now, it's Canada, excursion trains, or PVs if you want a dome. Sad...
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Domes may finally be dead due to fanaticism over safety. Seems that NCDOT has theirs up for sale because they found that it could not be economically brought into compliance with current safety standards. See www.bytrain.org
George
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Domes may finally be dead due to fanaticism over safety. Seems that NCDOT has theirs up for sale because they found that it could not be economically brought into compliance with current safety standards. See www.bytrain.org
George
The NCDOT Dome has returned to it's 'home rails'. The car was bought by the Friends of the 261 and has been transported to the Twin Cities. I hear that it will operate on a May 21-22 excursion St. Paul to Duluth.
Posted by CN 6060 Fan (Member # 3093) on :
This is VIA's CANADIAN departing Toronto today, May 12, 2005. The huge consist of 3 F40s plus 27 cars included 4 DOMES (3 SKYLINES and 1 DOME "PARK" OBSERVATION)
Should look pretty impressive tomorrow night rolling across the prairies at 80+ MPH! 27 cars of perfectly matched Budd Stainless Steel!
Mr Pismobum, the DEAN of dome car historians, has it right, folks!
I've ridden, pre- and post-Amtrak:
UP Astra-Dome lounges (9000 class) and Astra-Dome dining cars (8000 class)
ex-ATSF Pleasure Domes (nee 500 class)
ex-BN (NP?) dome sleepers
ex-SP 3600 class 3/4 domes
Hi-Level lounges (waaaay before they were convered to Pacific Parlour Cars)
Superliner lounges
The view ahead from a full length dome is less than satisfactory. Whether the car was built by Budd, Pullman-Standard, or homemade (SP), the cars have lower forward windows than do any short dome.
If you sit at midcar on a Superliner dome, you will get the forward view effect desired back in 1943 west of Dotsero.
Whoever wrote about height also has a major point. Superliner cars are approaching height limits. There ISN'T room to add more height, especially considering the age of many tunnels. Look at how many tunnels UP/SP had to deepen in the Sierra Nevada to get doublestacks through in the first place.
Finally, there is the small matter of cost, in an era where Amtrak does not even get an appropriation for "A state of Good Repair."
Domes in Amtrak service anytime in the next twenty years are opiate pipe dreams.
John
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Mr Resor,
You mean I have an experience on YOU????
I may have ridden in a dome in 1958 or 1960, going to/from Kansas to live while Dad was on Formosa. Those trips don't count, though ... I was less than 4.
I do remember the "City of Saint Louis" in 1963 (dragging Mom back and forth from our Pullman again and again!) , and the COSL/COLA in 1967. I especially remember the view out in Wyoming on Day 2, and French toast at Victorville on the backhaul.
John
Posted by panamaclipper (Member # 3058) on :
CN 6060 Fan: I count 18 sleepers and two diners. We only had three sleepers and one diner when I took the same trip in March. My that train grows in the busy season. I wonder what the max is?
Posted by chrisg (Member # 2488) on :
Don't forget the last Dome Amtrak has running this weekend on trains 799/798 to SLO.
Many dinner trains have domes like the Spirit of Washighton, Minnesota Zepyhr and the like.
Tourist trains have domes like the Grand Canyon, Santa Fe Southern and the like.
The Milwaukee Road 261 group has a full length dome that will be on their Duluth Trip plus on the Trains Unlimited and NRHS Western Star Steam Trip.
There are many domes in Alaska you can also ride.
Chris
Posted by pismobum (Member # 2628) on :
"I wonder what the max is?" (Canadian). Dunno, but the "Park" car is the '39' car (last car of the 30 series). Doubt if you'ld ever have 10 coaches to fill that number series, but they certainly don't use numbering to allow for 40 or more cars.
Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: As far as I know the Daylights and the successor Starlight never had true domes although I've seen private dome cars attached to the Starlight twice this month.
Frank in Blustery SBA
Mr. sbalax/frank:
I can assure you the true domes we all love, the famous Budd half domes, DID run on early 80s Starlights, before the Superliner One HEP cars appeared. Sometimes as many as 3 on one train would appear. The attendants needed to learn about the old-timey fuse boxes in those historic cars, and the tricks needed to keep the A/C functioning. There was a "paper clip" routine that was used a lot to override the thermostats. One thing about domes, they got really hot, and fast, when that A/C cut out. Also, the San Diegans frequently ran the full length ex-GN domes, off and on, into the late 90s and very early 2000's. This was pre-Surfliner, when the San Diegans were either Amfleet or Heritage cars. I was an attendant in those cars and even carried my own screw-in fuses, which I also used on the Sunset Limited pre-HEP equipment.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Mr SBALAX really needs to look at some photographs:
Patrick Dorin's early 70s book, The Domeliners, has a picture of a 3600 class SP 3/4 dome running the Coast Daylight at Refugio Beach. Having camped at Refugio every summer from 1962-1977, I can categorically say SP ran the occasional dome on the Daylight.
Post Amtrak, I was a student at UCSB ... After all, Storke Tower WAS Tom Storke's last great erection. I RODE 3600 class domes from Santa Barbara to LAUPT on my Thanksgiving and Christmas vacation travels down to Mom and Dad's place.
Time reference there is Fall 1974 to June 1978
John
Posted by domefoamer (Member # 3090) on :
If you don't think the forward view of a real dome is such a treat, try this test. Have someone else drive, and ride all day in the passenger seat through a stretch of beautiful scenery. Don't forget to paint over your half of the windshield with soap! That's how I feel when I ride a domeless train. It's still very nice to be going anywhere, but I want to see where I'm going, too...
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by chrisg:
The Milwaukee Road 261 group has a full length dome that will be on their Duluth Trip plus on the Trains Unlimited and NRHS Western Star Steam Trip.
And it is one sweeeeeeeeeet super dome! I enjoyed riding it several times when I was an NCDOT Volunteer Train Host. While there is some comfort in the realization that the car will be used on excursions over it's 'home rails', we're going to miss the dome we knew as 'Mount Mitchell' on the Piedmont.
David Pressley
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
How many people remember eating dinner in the dome diners of UP's City of Los Angeles and other City series trains? My favourite dome-riding was having a luxurious first-class dining experience in those wonderful cars.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
I do.
1967, I was ten. Breakfast in the dome at Victorville, going home on COSL/COLA.
Posted by Pojon (Member # 3080) on :
^Those half dome cars were great! I used to ride them on the Capitol Limited from DC to Chicago---the view (truly 360o) in the late afternoon was great and in the early morning before chicago. Unbeatable!!!
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pojon: ^Those half dome cars were great! I used to ride them on the Capitol Limited from DC to Chicago---the view (truly 360o) in the late afternoon was great and in the early morning before chicago. Unbeatable!!!
I did a circle trip in May 1983 from Memphis (where I was living at the time......no Elvis references please.....) to Chicago, DC, New Orleans and back to Memphis using the 'City of New Orleans', 'Capitol', and 'Crescent'. I was young and not particularly affluent at the time so I rode using the earliest incarnation of the 'All Aboard America' fare ($125.00 for one region......which was everything east of the Mississippi at that time).
I most remember riding in the half dome for virtually every mile of my trip aboard both the 'City' and the 'Cap'. Riding downstairs on the single level 'Crescent' paled by comparison.
David Pressley
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Allow me to add my memories of the UP Dome Diners.
My first dinner in one was aboard the MILW City of Portland Chi-Marion, IA on a college interview trip during April 1961. It was "just a ham sandwich', but indeed an experience.
There were other trips such as Jan 1964 all the way LA-Chi on the City, with my Mother Ogden-Green River-Portland after returning from Nam during July 1968, and with a "what's a train' Air Force buddy, Evanston-Ogden during Oct 1968. Other trips included a January 1969 Ogden-Cheyenne as well as LA-Ogden - also Jan 1969. I guess I had to 'celebrate' the only time I was "fired" from a job in my life - better known as being "RIFFED" from the Air Force.
My "A-Day Eve' ride was Chi-Savanna aboard MILW 103, but by then the cars had been withdrawn.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
I stand corrected. See my post elsewhere here about the excellent new DVD: The Coast Daylight -- The Most Beautiful Train in the World. They discuss the in house construction of the domes. Thanks to Railroad Bob and PullmanCo for narrowing down the timeframe, too. It sounds as if these cars were used elsewhere first and then on the Daylight.
I beat you out at UCSB, PullmanCo. I was there from 1959-1963 and again 1965-1967. Go Gauchos!
Frank in Sunny, Warm SBA
Posted by JONATHON (Member # 2899) on :
I'd like to see a comuter Train with all domes, that'a bring in the Buck$
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Mr SBALAX...
I don't know how often you visited IV in the 70s, but Skip's pizza was the greatest!!!
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
I left IV in 1967 and never looked back! I was there during the building boom when you could live in a brand new apartment every semester. I lived on burgers from CharWest (a roomate was the manager) and spent many an hour watching movies at the Magic Lantern. And I remember when Paul Orfalea had one copy machine. Who knew that a dyslexic kid with funny hair would go on to found "Kinko's".
I wonder how much the Goleta Station is used by UCSB students. I don't see many college age kids on the train but I am usually on it during the week rather than on weekends.
Frank in Sunny SBA
Posted by SPfan (Member # 3898) on :
My dome trips and type of dome. Pre Amtrak: Southern Pacific Home built 3/4 dome lounge: San Joaquin Daylight 1961. Coast Daylight 1970. Union Pacific ACF dome coach,dome lounge: City of L.A. 1971. Santa Fe Budd full length dome lounge: San Diegan 1969(Dome and coaches added for fantrip). Amtrak era,non Amtrak railroads: Southern Rwy Pullman dome parlor,ex Wabash: Southern Crescent 1978. D&RGW Budd ex CZ dome coach,dome lounge/dorm: Rio Grande Zephyr 1979.(dome lounge/dorm subbing for Silver Sky dome observation ). Alaska Railroad ACF ex UP dome coach Budd dome coach Ex?. Anchorage Seward,Anchorage Fairbanks 2001. Fantrips,dinner trains, etc. Pullman,ex MILW.full length dome: Spirit of Washington dinner train 1995. UP 3985 trip 1995. ACF ex UP dome diner: APPRCO specials,1990,1991. Ex Wabash dome lounge observation,builder unknown: 4449 transcon excursion 1977. Amtrak: Various Budd dome coaches, Budd full length dome lounge,ex GN. SP built 3/4 length dome lounge. I have ridden full length domes from all 4 railroads that had them.Two on thier origanal roads,one on Amtrak,one on special trains.( I know Santa Fe had two types of full length dome,I rode the full lounge.)
Posted by SilverStar092 (Member # 2652) on :
There are more than 2 diners on the Canadian as the skyline cars also serve meals in the sleeper part of the train. My first dome ride was on the City of Miami between Miami and West Palm Beach. They also had a dome sleeper in winter, leased from the NP but painted in IC colors. The South Wind also had a dome sleeper but still in NP colors. Soon I was able to take some short rides in the ex-B&O dome sleepers on the Florida Special(winter) and Silver Star (summer). I also rode a full dome on the original private AutoTrain but never on Amtrak's version. On Amtrak I got to ride domes on the Floridian, Mountaineer, Calif Zephyr (east of Denver), Capitol Limited, City of NOL, and Empire Builder.On VIA Rail: Canadian, Atlantic, Chaleur, Ocean, Bras d'Or, and Skeena. Alaska RR on full dome run by Holland America and private car "Silver Solarium" on a charter special from Savannah,GA to West Palm Beach via FEC then CSX to Tampa.
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