I saw in the news yesterday that a mudslide closed the tracks near Oakridge, Oregon. Passengers are being bussed between KFS and PDX. Here's a TV report with pictures and video. KATU TV Mudslide closes tracks near Oakridge. Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
There will be NO Coast Starlight train service AT ALL from Seattle to Los Angeles (the ENTIRE route!) from January 25th to February 1st. There will be NO Coast Starlight train service AT ALL from Los Angeles to Seattle from January 24th to January 31st. No bus bridge. No alternate transportation. NO TRAIN SERVICE AT ALL. The Coast Starlight will not run during these dates. There is no explanation from Amtrak as to why they are cancelling the entire train, instead of running it from, say, LAX to Klamath Falls and keeping a bus bridge in place. For some weird reason, they decided to entirely cancel this train along the entire route.
The mudslide is serious, and will not be repaired by February 1st. It will take several weeks. Why Amtrak picked the date of February 1st is not known. After the 1st, I do not know if the train will continue to be cancelled. I will update if I hear more.
Posted by daniel3197 (Member # 27) on :
As I posted in my other thread I fear that this just may be PERMANENT. This would follow the National Amtrak pattern of using suspensions as an end run around formal discontinuance procedures. I can NOT remember ANY Amtrak train that has been reborn following a service discontinuance.
The long gone Amtrak trains off the top of my head are the: North Coast Hiawatha (1979), Lone Star(1979), Pioneer (1997), Desert Wind (1997), Sunset Limited east end (2005). The Amtrak Three Rivers train (40 and 41) was also ended within the past few years. I do not remember what the exact date was for that NONE of those discontinued routes have been reborn so far. That is historically a big black mark on Amtrak management.
Amtrak should at least continue the Starlight from Sacramento to Los Angeles. It just might be a good idea to run the Starlight to and from San Diego as a consolation for the missing route up north.
I would just love to be proven wrong about my fears here. If anyone has any further ideas I would love to hear them!
---- Daniel
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
I sincerely doubt this is permanent. The Starlight is a flagship and model for other LDT's. If you cut the Starlight, you might as well cut all the other LDT's. The Starlight is too much of a performer to be cut.
If the Starlight goes...I will go into a %#*$&#^ rage and possibly decide to NEVER vote again (especially for anyone from a certain political party). The mere thought of loosing any more long distance service thows me into a fit of rage. We can spend billions of dollars to bail out the airline industry, but can't clear some earth off the tracks for interstate train service. HYPOCRACY HYPOCRACY HYPOCRACY. <<<END RANT MODE<<<.
Posted by timefortrains (Member # 5603) on :
I have a reservation on the Coast Starlight leaving Jan. 28 from Los Angeles to Eugene, OR. Spoke with an Amtrak agent this morning who assured me that the train will run from LAX to Klamath Falls and that a "bus bridge" will get me from Klamath Falls to EUG. Didn't ask about points north of EUG.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by timefortrains: I have a reservation on the Coast Starlight leaving Jan. 28 from Los Angeles to Eugene, OR. Spoke with an Amtrak agent this morning who assured me that the train will run from LAX to Klamath Falls and that a "bus bridge" will get me from Klamath Falls to EUG. Didn't ask about points north of EUG.
I just posted a response to your comment in the other thread. Please make sure you read it so that you are not stranded in Los Angeles on the 28th.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Has anyone else noticed that there is nothing on the Amtrak website about this?
Frank in wet SBA
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
The 'Cardinal', originally a daily train, was discontinued in October 1979 as part of the 'Carter Cutbacks'.
It returned to service as a Tri-Weekly train about two and a half months later....January 1980 I believe.....after Senator Robert Byrd made some 'arrangements'.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Still nothing on the Amtrak website. What's up?
Frank in VERY wet SBA
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
When I tried to make an on-line reservation for #14 on the 24th of January, it wouldn't allow it. It would show the 23rd whenever I tried to book the 24th. When I tried to book the 29th of Jan, the system put it forward to the 1st of Feb. Amtrak is just blacking out the dates between the 24th of Jan to the 31st inclusive without any explanation.
Posted by CG96 (Member # 1408) on :
Note that the article quotes a source that the tracks will be closed for an extended length of time.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Read the Register link. Relatively small traffic between Sacramento and Eugene? Maybe. But what about through traffic coming from California heading to Washington or Oregon? What a mess! Nonetheless, rest assured the detour is costing UP a buck or two, so expect that they're working around the clock to fix the problem. Indefinately can mean 2 days, 2 weeks, or two months. Hopefully not the latter.
Posted by earmond (Member # 186) on :
Well, I'm depending on that link to be there from Southern California on 15 March. searching out alternatives to get back east at this time. final destination is Wabasha, Mn, but what a bear this has been trying to schedule connections west of chicago, so far.
Posted by bill613a (Member # 4264) on :
The CARDINAL was not part of the Carter cutbacks of Oct 1979. It was discontinued on Sept 30, 1981 but was reinstated on a tri-weekly schedule on January 8, 1982.
Posted by timefortrains (Member # 5603) on :
The official Amtrak web site shows that Trains 11 and 14 have been cancelled until Feb.1 and possibly later. When I first heard of the mudslide I made backup travel plans so it's no big deal for me. Real cost is to UP and their customers who depend on the rail connection. I believe Amtrak agents gave me the information they had at the time.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by timefortrains: The official Amtrak web site shows that Trains 11 and 14 have been cancelled until Feb.1 and possibly later. When I first heard of the mudslide I made backup travel plans so it's no big deal for me. Real cost is to UP and their customers who depend on the rail connection. I believe Amtrak agents gave me the information they had at the time.
I'm glad you had backup plans! Very smart thinking.....
And just for the record, my information was from Amtrak internally. The agent you spoke with apparently did not read the memo.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Interesting to note that this advisory has now disappeared from the Amtrak website.
Frank in WET SBA
Posted by earmond (Member # 186) on :
Anyone: What's the latest on progress in clearing the slide?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Armond, as we addressed at this topic, service has been resumed LA-Sacramento.
As of a few moments ago, the website returned Coast Starlight (Coach only) for a Santa Barbara to Sacramento Feb 9 itinerary; however, for a Sacramento to Eugene Feb 9 itinerary, "no service" is returned. For Eugene to Seattle also on Feb 9, only the Cascades are returned.
Presently, the first LA to Portland itinerary to be returned is Feb 16, but judging from the "progress' of this matter (remember, UP has "thousandfold' greater interest in restoring the line to service than does Amtrak; detours on BNSF - if even accepted - over Oregon Trunk via Bieber or reroutes via Ogden are "mighty costly') , I "wouldn't take that one to the bank".
Finally, at such time that UP is confident that the line's restoration is imminent, they may choose simply to embargo traffic until the actual reopening. The reroute via Ogden definitely adds a day and likely two to any line haul, so if the decision to embargo is made, it could be a wise one. However, such action could cause a backlog of traffic to be moved and accordingly resumption of the Starlight could be held until that backlog has been moved. I can only hope that these militant advocacy groups such as RAILPAC you have out there will keep that in mind before they start the rants such as "deliberate abuse of their obligation to serve passengers...." and drawing analogies to Sunset East.
Posted by earmond (Member # 186) on :
G.B. Saw about the pathetic resumption of coach service. I need it for long distance travel (sleeper) in March as wifie and I are going on a long time planned vacation that has us going all the way up. Wifie can't fly, I won't drive that kind of distance. Just attempting to keep track and praying that it's cleared by 15 March. p.s. - decaf dude!
Posted by earmond (Member # 186) on :
To say that the location is remote and the terrain rugged is putting it mildly. In Mr. Koraleski's February 1 letter to shippers, which is the reference above, it shows the slide as being located between mileposts 561 and 562. This location is near the middle of the long grade descending from Cascade Summit (mp 536.8) to Oakridge (mp 580.5) It takes over two pages in the 2000 ETT that I have to cover operation on this section. The speed limit on most of this segment is 33 mph for passenger trains, 30 miles southbound (upgrade) and 25 mph northbound (downgrade) for freight trains, and there are a few pieces with lower speed limits.
Look at the pictures with the letter and you will get some idea of the terrain and the working conditions being endured to clear the slide. The people involved probably feel like telling the whiners about lack of train service to take a long walk on a short pier.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
As my name implies, I might be the one to go off and claim UP blatantly is stalling and would just assume tell RailPac and Amtrak to go &#^k themselves....
But lets be realistic. Economics was never my subject in school, but I think common sense should prevail. This whole ordeal is costing UP bookoo bucks to say the least. First, the cost of restoring the line, and secondly the cost of the detour (fuel and additional crew hours...etc) is costing probably as much as the restoration itself.
UP is in a competetive industry: moving goods. Their clients have other options (other rail companies, trucking, air and even water). Everything with them boils down to economics. DO you think they pride in telling their customers 'hey, your goods will be delayed 72 hours (3 days!). I think UP has just as much vested interest in restoring the line as Amtrak does...and when the line is restored, who could blame them for giving Amtrak the red light while they clear their own backlog.
Advocacy is great, but we must all deal with the reality of the situation. I will place my money on Amtrak doesn't resume through there until, maybe the first or second week of March, based on the photos and info I've read.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Thanks to the links, I now know where the slide occurred. This image shows it best. Ever since I first traveled that route in '74, I wondered if those steep slopes would remain stable. Scenic as that route is, perhaps an alternate routing might be something UP needs to consider for the long term. There are many steep slopes like this between the summit and Oakridge, any one of which would be even harder to get to than this one.
An engineering project like this can take months, as we often see on Highway 1 in Big Sur. It's important to stabilize the hillside lest a worse thing happen. Thank goodness there were no trains on the track when the hillside went down.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
I was just looking at that photo again. I notice two patches in the upper right where clear-cut logging was done. It appears the slide may have originated in another clear-cut patch, which is still partially intact.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Mr. Toy -- thanks for the map and photos! I know EXACTLY where that slide was now! I kinda thought that was where it might have been.
We booked a bedrom on the Starlight (LAX-SEA) for July for our trip, and had no problems getting the space. So I would say to y'all -- Just be patient -- the trains will return to the Starlight route again soon -- I'd say by late March at the latest.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Armond, sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but as of a few moments ago, the first day the website returns a San Jose to Portland itinerary is now Monday March 24. Additionally, there is "informed speculation' at another site (known for rumors, but the source originating the material himself is deemed reliable) the resumption may not occur until late April.
"It just keeps growing and growing".
However, when service finally resumes and as I have previously suggested at another Forum, consideration ought to be given for simply killing the Starlight and replacing it with 'The Cascade' and the "Coast Daylight'.
Ideally, the latter could be routed over publicly owned ROW to serve San Francisco and Silicon Valley; I can't think of a quicker "shot in the arm" for patronage. The consist would remain Coach only, but possibly the Pacific Parlours could be used for a premium-fare daylight service.
The Emeryville-Seattle train (it would have a new train name, as Cascade is now "spoken for') would offer Sleepers and Diners and would connect with the San Joaquin's at Martinez. True, passengers traveling from Santa Barbara, San Luis, and Salinas would be inconvenienced by having to change at San Jose either to a Capitol or bus to Emeryville, as well as possibly losing a same-day connection altogether, but once at another site, someone made a compilation of passenger boardings for itineraries between these stations and beyond Sacramento - and they were quite small.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Mr. Norman..your idea of a "Martinez (Bay Area)-Seattle train, to replace the Starlight, is interesting. Martinez would not be a bad hub ..as I understand there is a new Amtrak station there(?). I still am not sure what facilities there are..the old station had poor parking facilities..what about the new one? I would think a large, secure parking lot would be a must if the La to SF Bay area "Daylight", San Joaquin's, and Capitals all connected. What about the schedule? I would not mind an overnight train, starting out in Martinez, around 6pm. That would get it into Sac at 7pm, Eugene around 7am, Portland at noon, and Seattle around 4-5 PM.
One additional access market, I would like to see opened, is Northern Calif..up along Hwy 101 to Eureka. The old California Northern used to connect Napa Valley (which connected with the old Northwestern Pacific RR from Napa to Santa Rosa to Eureka). I believe the Calif. Northern connected at Suisun-Fairfield..where, now, only the Capitals stop. Maybe a Martinez connection? ..If not, possibly a new stn in Sacramento (if they ever get around to remodeling that old stn.) would be better. If the Northwestern Pacific RR returns (pretty sure sections of it will return for freight..with, most likely, mandates for added passenger service)..it would be nice to see access, for the Coast Starlight (Daylight?), Capitals, and San Joaquin's for Northern Calif without needing to bus into Martinez or Sacramento.
Richard
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Well, my response will no doubt be predictable, but I see no need to split the Starlight. It offers no real benefits over a straight run through, but it does add hassles and travel time for passengers who are traveling through (as most Starlight passengers are).
But if all goes as planned both of us will get our way. The proposed Daylight revival is to go before the California Transportation Commission, the body responsible for doling out transportation funds, later this month. If it is a "go" the Daylight will get Mr. Norman's preferred SF peninsula routing either this year or next. As I understand it the Daylight will take a slot currently designated for one of Caltrain's "baby bullet" express runs.
Lest the Illinois resident forget, California's state rail plan assumes the Starlight will continue to be a part of Amtrak's service. The Daylight is intended as a supplement, not a replacement, in our area's plans.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I would LOVE to see the Daylight get approved, and run through to San Francisco. That would be a great train, with lots of passengers.
Attn GBN: Someone was asking about you over on TO. Look on today's thread on the Passenger board about a story regarding two men jumping from a Metra train in your neighborhood.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Here is the proposed schedule for the Coast Daylight.
With the mudslide disruption and all, are there still plans to "revamp" the Coast Starlight and "relaunch" the "improved service" this spring?
Posted by earmond (Member # 186) on :
Hey G.B. There are 3 other ways to get across the country long distance. A diligent traveler, having seen the mess in Oregon, would plan for these contingencies. I had booked the 2nd route to get me to my destination in Minnesota when I saw how difficult it would be for the host in Oregon to clean this up. So really no change being able to get across the country to see family in a civil and medically friendly manner. Thanks for your concern.