OK, I know politics is a powder keg subject, but we can't ignore what possible repurcussions the presidential race could have on Amtrak and federal funding levels. JOhn McCain, as it seems has been openly hostile towards Amtrak. This race is looking more and more single candidate in the Republican party. If McCain wins the majority of the 22 states on Super Tuesday, he will likely be the Republican candidate. I don't know much about Clinton or Obama's views on Amtrak. If anybody in here has heard anything, please share. Amtrak has been the red-headed stepchild of DC. Neither party has made much of a push for additional funding. But what I feel is that political indifference may be better than open hostility. Amtrak would continue in its pitiful state...but at least it will continue to exist (barely).
Washington seems to be committed to neglecting Amtrak to a slow and eventual death. Open hostility has not been very effective though. Bush seemed to make an attempt at hostility back when he appointed Norman Mineta transportation secretary. And Norm Mineta was a Democrat!!! Ironically,Norman Mineta has an AIRPORT named after him. So much for objectivity.
But I digress.....
So, the question is...is there any candidate for the presidency OR any other office up for grabs this year that could be a shot in the arm for Amtrak? Is the November general election really of any consequence to Amtrak?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I think your very last interrogatory sums it up, Mr. Maniac.
A $1.4B line item, no matter how much passion it engenders at both this and other like message boards and buried deep in a Spending Bill, is not worth the expense of any political capital whatever. Even if Sen. McCain is standing UNOWARE with hand on the all-time best seller next Jan 20, the consequences to Amtrak will be no different than if one of two other US Senators are standing there instead.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: So, the question is...is there any candidate for the presidency OR any other office up for grabs this year that could be a shot in the arm for Amtrak? Is the November general election really of any consequence to Amtrak?
Presidency: No.
Other offices: Yes. US Senators can be very persuasive with their State's interests. Time will tell.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Both Clinton and Obama spoke for and voted for the Lautenberg-Lott Amtrak funding bill in the Senate. Since Amtrak figures heavily in both New York and Illinois, one can expect continued support on their part should one or both remain in the Senate.
Should either win the presidency, it's very likely that any pro-Amtrak bill will not be vetoed.
As for my own vote I would go Pogo, but there has not been a train through the Okefenokee swamp in quite a while.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
I am inclined to agree with Mr. Kisor regarding the "blue" side.
As for McCain, he's never struck me as being anti-rail just anti-Amtrak. I think he makes a clear distinction in his mind between the two.
As an aside, as an audio/visual technician, I was thinking yesterday about "red" and "blue" being only two of the three colors necessary to make up a full color image, such as on a computer monitor. The other is green. Taking the political interpretations of those three colors, we really need Red Green and Blue working together to solve our transportation problems. (OK, I can hear the groans across the land!) If any one of them is missing, you get a ghastly hue.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: As for my own vote I would go Pogo, but there has not been a train through the Okefenokee swamp in quite a while.
As in "I have met the enemy and he is we"?
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
That was "is us," I think. Yep. That Pogo. I miss him. I miss Walt Kelly. I can still recite most of "Deck Us All with Boston Charlie," too.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
I do not have a choice this year. It looks like Hillary or Hillary-lite {McCain} will probably be our next [......]
Neither one will care one little bit about America or Amtrak. It will be all about them and their ego.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: That was "is us," I think. Yep. That Pogo. I miss him. I miss Walt Kelly. I can still recite most of "Deck Us All with Boston Charlie," too.
Ah yes....."he is us."
Pogo was my father's favorite comic strip. The newspaper was never the same for him after Pogo ended.
Posted by 4021North (Member # 4081) on :
I would hope that they care, but I have few illusions about any of them being competent to lead the country. I will vote against anyone who is anti-Amtrak. The Democrats wouldn't use their influence to improve Amtrak either, because I doubt if they have the mindset to make those kinds of sweeping changes. That is why I may not vote for any of the main candidates, or care about the outcome.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: Open hostility has not been very effective though. Bush seemed to make an attempt at hostility back when he appointed Norman Mineta transportation secretary. And Norm Mineta was a Democrat!!! Ironically,Norman Mineta has an AIRPORT named after him. So much for objectivity.
At first I absolutely abhorred Mineta's attacks on Amtrak. I even took a sick day at work to go picket his press conference at the Charlotte Amtrak station. I toyed with putting a picture of Mineta standing with the president on my office wall and then putting a big red X over Mineta's face.
With time I've come to realize that Mineta was well past his time of political effectiveness. It was actually, maybe, a little to Amtrak's advantage that the strident attacks were coming from someone who was relatively inept and impotent....politically speaking.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Quite my point Mr. Presley. The Mineta ordeal proves how little bit people cared one way or the other. When you attack something so few in Washington give a cr*p about, your ranting goes nowhere fast.
I didn't know about the Lautenberg-Lott Bill Mr. Kisor. Thanks. Thats reassuring to know.
As for McCain, maybe he's just pissy because his Phoenix doesn't have Amtrak service. Boo hoo. LOL
Perhaps if the Blue Team wins the White House, they'll bring the troops home and the few extra dollars in savings can go to Amtrak...perhaps.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Thamks for bringing up Pogo. He was my favorite comic character! Forgive me for going off the thread but I think others may be s. The Arlington County ,Va library is always runing contests and book promotions for its readers. the latest one is Catch The Title Wave ..share your favorite book. There are drawings for prize books periodically. They list all this on line. As I looked at it today who should appear but our own Henry. Someone had listed his book A CACHE OF CORPSES as a book to read because of its memorable characters. Having already read it I agree but must admit as much as I enjoye it I still lke Zephyr even better.
Posted by SilverStar092 (Member # 2652) on :
This entire situation smells of a train wreck. My political leanings would have to vote for McCain but only while holding my nose. He has always been very negative about Amtrak and it didn't help when the Sunset derailed with his wife on board as I recall. I also think he was against Amtrak even before Phoenix was bypassed. The other candidates have not made any brilliant effort to support Amtrak either and the Clinton administration didn't do anything to help Amtrak. I keep hoping Romney pulls off a major rebound Tuesday as at least he hasn't targeted Amtrak publically. I just wish the politicos would realize the benfits of an expanded passenger rail system. Unfortunately most wouldn't know a passenger train if they saw one as they travel by jet, often chartered at that. Someone in office needs to champion a bold plan for Amtrak expansion.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Pogo lovers!?! I knew this was a forum of extremely enlightened thinkers! In the immortal words of Albert the alligator: "Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits."
As for the current election to be in charge of the "gummint", I was just thinking of an interesting question. In this time when politicians are willing to listen to get more votes, what would you say if you had the ear of someone running for office for 2 minutes? I am talking about the preservation or expansion of the national system.
Posted by amtraksupporter (Member # 5619) on :
Twin Star Rocket asked a question that merits an answer:
[W]hat would you say if you had the ear of someone running for office for 2 minutes?
If I lived in Des Moines, Iowa, before the caucus, I would have asked, in a community meeting before other voters where the candidates attended, "Mrs. Clinton, with gasoline at $3 a gallon, and maybe $4, why don't we in Des Moines have Amtrak train service in Iowa?"
I would have got a favorable response from the audience. Mrs. Clinton would have favored it there too.
If I had lived in New Hampshire, I would have asked at a similar meeting, "Mrs. Clinton why don't we have Amtrak train service to Boston and Montreal?"
I would have got another favorable response from the audience. Mrs. Clinton would have favored it there too.
If I had lived in South Carolina, I would have asked, "Mrs. Clinton, why don't we have Amtrak train service to Atlanta."
I would have got another favorable response fron the audience. Mrs. Clinton would have favored it there too.
All of the Democrats would have said the same. Among the Republicans, Romey and Guiliani would have agreed because they live in train oriented states. McCain would not have agreed. When he talks about pork, he includes Amtrak. Huckabee I think would have agreed. Paul I am not sure about.
If you want to influence politicians, you ask them questions when they are running for office in front of other people and you localize your question to the people listening. Politicians will agree to almost anything under such conditions.
You don't try to make an argument on the merits. For most politicians, discussion on the merits goes in one ear and out the other because they hear it all the time. If they agree with you, you don't have to argue to them.
Unfortunately presidential candidates appear in such circumstances every 4 or 8 years and never again before ordinary people. That's how Democrary works in America in 2008.
Between times in some states such circumstances arise ocassionally, and such opportunities present themselves.
Once again NARP blew it again by not organizing Amtrak support groups in these states during the primaries to ask such questions when the candidates had to listen. People from the campaigns tell me that they heard Amtrak maybe once or twice while in the country.
Maybe in 2012 NARP and local groups will figure out how to play this game.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: Perhaps if the Blue Team wins the White House, they'll bring the troops home and the few extra dollars in savings can go to Amtrak...perhaps.
I guess it was inevitable that the "Iraq card' would be played at this topic.
Lest we forget that eighteen years ago, "we" won the Cold War. This victory was to have brought about a 'Peace Dividend' where the resources previously directed to A&E, or 'arms and enemies", would now enhance the various social programs about the land (AFAIC, LD Amtrak is a social program).
Well, it doesn't appear that any expansion of routes and/or frequencies resulted from that Peace Dividend; of course Panama, Desert Storm, Allied Force (Kosovo), 9/11, Enduring Freedom, and Iraqi Freedom, all kind of chipped at any possible resources.
In short, even if the next Administration 'brings the troops home', I would not foresee any kind of funding bonanza for a NARP 'connect the dots' charade. So long as the LD system remains the catalyst for Federal funding of the Northeast Corridor and the Class I industry continues their indirect subsidy of the LD's, it will be a case of 'be thankful we (yes I said "we", I ride 'em myself - when they are convenient to my travel requirements) got what we got', for I would not expect anything more.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
If I had a choice between the 6 people running for President or Train Lady, I'd vote for Train Lady. {Yes, we are political opposites, but she is STILL a better choice than the people currently running.}
Posted by CG96 (Member # 1408) on :
I think I'd vote for Train Lady, too. NARP has something on their web site regarding getting involved and voicing one's support regarding trains, to the point that they advocate getting together with other members in your vicinity. The MIdwest High Speed Rail Association has a couple of recommendations on their web site, as well. Unfortunatly for us, the issues surrounding railroads, and passenger rail in particular, do not have much traction with the general public. It's as if the general public thinks out of sight, out of mind. Tommy Thompson included mention of passenger rail, and getting the LD train to go through Madison, WI, during one of his speeches in the early 1990s, yet the efforts there came to naught.
Posted by 4021North (Member # 4081) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Lest we forget that eighteen years ago, "we" won the Cold War.
"We" being people everywhere who gained from the end of the arms race and the rivalry between the superpowers. This was not a victory over the Soviet Union, or over socialism or communism. It was a victory for peace and international friendship.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Well Mike, I am not sure if I have been insulted or complimented. Frankly I waas almost ready to vote for Harry Truman but then I realized that Bess would probably have a complete breakdown so I shall have to do with what is available. This country will survive whoever is in the White House. As you know we have had a few real idiots there and the country is still here. Actually I am an independent and vote for the person I like best. So the fact that we ae usually on opposides doesn't mean we can't be friends. It just makes life more interesting.
Posted by Ham Radio (Member # 6587) on :
A lot of rail tourists enter Arizona via Amtrak. The state understands this, even if the senior senator does not.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I'd vote for Charlie Brown for Prez right now if I could. I don't like anybody....left, right, or UFO witness (Kucinich--LOL!).
I wish we had better choices......Sad state of affairs in my opinion.
With big issues like the war, terrorism, education, immigration, the economy, etc, etc, etc......if anything "Amtrak" comes up with the Prez (whomever it might be), he/she will tell an underling: "Handle it". They don't have time for Amtrak, and they don't care.
The only way they would care is if their friends in the news media were to make it a story. Again, in my personal opinion, I don't think they will do this. The only circumstance I can see the news media bringing Amtrak out front and center to a president is if the president happens to be cozy with the mainstream media, and the president wants something that he or she did to be covered up quickly by another story. Then, the news media can create news (nothing new to them) by starting a "Passenger Rail Crisis Hits USA" theme. Then the heat will be off whatever scandal is happening at the time. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter who is Prez.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Train Lady, it was a compliment to you and an insult to the people currently running. None of them are even remotely capable of leading the strongest/greatest Nation on this planet.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Relevant to this thread, on the cover of today's St. Paul Pioneer Press, 3 questions are asked of each of 6 presidential candidates (or their staff) in anticipation of the MN caucuses Tuesday. Question #2 is "What would your candidate do to improve the nation's transportation infrastructure?"
Huckabee lists "mass-transit investment" to ease congestion. Romney and McCain declare their opposition to "pork". Paul will stop blowing up bridges overseas. Clinton has a "Rebuild America Plan" with no mention of rail in her answer.
Only Obama mentions rail in his answer. He says he will "support the development of high-speed rail networks across the country".
The same 3 questions are asked of 4 senate candidates. Al Franken (Democrat) mentions rail 5 times in his short answer, including inter-city rail with specifics for local expansion.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Al Franken? He has to be one of the dumbest people alive...
OK, so he IS qualified to be in the Senate.... Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Here's a kink to the material noted by Mr. Twin Star:
BTW, anyone know how Mr. TwinStar's "handle' came about? The Rock Island operated a passenger train Mpls-Houston. At one time it operated Mpls-Houston, but had been cut back to Fort Worth by 1964 (my RI TT collection is rather 'scanty').
It also carried at least until 1963 Mpls-LA Coach and Pullman connecting with the Golden State at KC.
But the name recognizes Minnesota as the North Star State and Texas as the Lone Star State; Rocket was of course the Rock Island's fleet name for their premier trains. Hence, they came up with Twin Star Rocket.
Another 'combined' name was for a joint RI-CB&Q Mpls St Louis train. That one simply honored both road's fleet names with "Zephyr Rocket'. But having ridden that one Cedar Rapids St Louis during Jan 1962 be assured it was a "none of the above' (it lost its Sleeper about a month after I rode).
Finally, we should note that Mpls-KC is likely the most viable line of The Rock in service today, as it enables the UP to handle West Coast traffic without a via Chicago routing (even if Local, that's worth a day of handling time in itself). Traffic can be routed to the C&NW Overland Route at Nevada (NuhVAYda), interchanged (if they must accept a "short haul" Shipper's Routing) to BNSF at Chariton, or handled to KC and the West via the Golden State Route. After the RI bankruptcy, the C&NW acquired the line and in turn it became UP with the merger.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
An additional thought:
$1.4B (Amtrak appropriation)/$3T (Federal budget) = .00034 or .034% or "thirty four one thousandth of one percent" (Amtrak of the whole budget).
Owing to the program's popularity and visibility, all candidates know what Amtrak is. Somewhere I'll bet there is a program also funded at about "a B" that no candidate has 'the foggiest' what it is all about and possibly not even its name. There is also the distinct possibllity such program is as near and dear to some voter as is Amtrak around here.
Nuff said?
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
Has anybody on the forum ever stood for public office, even at a local level?
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)