I thought I would start a thread on riding in Coach on LD trains. I would be lying if I didn't admit that my alterior motive is to draw out all of those who have NEVER stepped foot on the COACH side of the Dining Car. I always get a laugh at their cries of how UNCIVILIZED riding LD in coach is. Reading people BASH coach class in thread after thread after thread has given me a LITTLE bit of a complex....hense this new thread.
I for one have NEVER been able to afford the luxury of a sleeper and have traveled (and survived) thousands of miles in coach. The leg room in Superliner Coaches is superb...unparallelled by any airline or Greyhound. If you happen to get a window seat, you have it made. As long as you have a pillow, just lean your head against the window and go to sleep to the sounds. If you end up in an aisle seat and don't want to chance waking up with your head on the strangers shoulders next to you...or if your neighbor's snoring is unbearable...hit up the Sightseer lounge car after everyone goes to sleep....lounge away and go to sleep under the stars. Dining Car meals? At 15 bucks a piece?!?!?!? NOOOOOOOOOOO Thank YOU!!!!! I will go downstairs in the Lounge Car and buy me a Brat with mustard and a mountain dew (I can hear the groans from our resident blue bloods right now!) I recommend the cheese and cracker packs as well!
TRAVELING AMTRAK COACH...THERE'S NOTHIN' LIKE IT ON EARTH!!!!! (especially if your measily 30K doesn't allow such luxuries as sleepers).
What is YOUR coach story?!
Posted by CHATTER (Member # 1185) on :
In all of my years reading this and other Amtrak forums, I have never once read a thread where someone referred to coach class as "uncivilized." I have also never seen coach class "bashed." Many members, myself included, have commented on how we prefer sleepers for overnight travel, but never have I seen anyone critizing others for their coach patronage.
So...rather than attempting to incite class warfare on this forum, I am hoping that you can post links to a few such threads. I, for one, do not believe that any significant number exists. Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Not sure you want to hear my coach story. My last coach ride (other than NEC) was on the Silver Star. Jax departure around 7Pm with arrival in my town near Columbia, Sc scheduled shortly after midnight.
Dinner in the diner was great. A glass of wine and a good meal help a lot. Things went downhill quickly from there.
Arrival at my destination was about 13 hours late. Not bad on a scheduled 6 hour trip. Signal problems, trees on the track, search on board for a felon, crowded car, noisy passengers you name it - truly a trip from hell.
I kept thinking I should have gotten a roomette. Never again.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
To continue: Patrick, having had both a Child Welfare and a 501(c)(3), or not-for-profit, Adoption agency within my clientele when in practice as a CPA, I'm quite mindful of the entry-level salary scales within the Social Services profession. But one of these days when you become Executive Director of your agency, and you check out the Sleepers and the Diner, there will be no going back to the cars (most consists) on the other side of the Lounge.
Posted by Liberty Limited (Member # 4300) on :
I'll do an overnight in coach if I have a travelling companion, but generally, I like to get a Roomette at the lowest bucket when I can plan enough ahead. Usually, my travel plans are flexible enough to find the cheap days.
My last overnight in coach was certainly the worst that I've done - it was a year ago yesterday. A friend of mine and I booked a RT on a Rail Sale to Chicago aboard the Capitol returning on the Cardinal. The trip there was OK, though we arrived in CHI mid-afternoon. Returning, the Cardinal left at about 1130pm instead of 545pm due to freezing equipment and encountered problems enroute with HEP. We arrived in Cincinatti mid-morning (which admittedly was neat) but wound up not coming into Charlottesville until midnight. Our final arrival into Baltimore, scheduled for 738pm, did not come until 414am. So this meant two overnights on the train on an Amfleet II.
I would still do an overnight in coach if I had to, as I do prefer the comeraderie of the coach crowd to the more stodgy feel of the sleeper crowd, but I certainly wouldn't do so on a single level train in cold weather.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Yeah, maybe my rant is a bit class driven. I don't make appologies for that. I simply see an underrepresentation of Coach Travelers when reading trip reports on this site. Evidently I've hit a nerve. Maybe I should change my name to Marxist RailTraveler.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
The LD coach trips I remember; 1976 - National Limited Philadelphia - Dayton. Coach was freezing in late spring. Fixed in Pittsburgh. Crying baby and snoring grownup kept me awake.
1977- Night Owl (?) New York - Richmond. No problems except a smoking passenger in front of coach. Conductor moves him. 1995 - Southwest Chief L.A.- Flagstaff. No problems. 1996 - Cardinal Chicago- Charlottesville. Slightly drunk woman seated next to me. We fall asleep. We wake up at Ohoi-Kentucky border with her legs draped across my lap. She removes them, no words were ever exchanged.
not an outstanding record; less tolerable as I get older.
Posted by CHATTER (Member # 1185) on :
quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: Yeah, maybe my rant is a bit class driven. I don't make appologies for that. I simply see an underrepresentation of Coach Travelers when reading trip reports on this site. Evidently I've hit a nerve. Maybe I should change my name to Marxist RailTraveler.
So how does an "underrepresentation of Coach Travelers" become a false observation of coach "bashing" and accusations that some have called others "uncivilized"? Because you have not seen the number of coach rider posts that you would like, you believe that you are entitled to make false accusations?
Posted by the_maitre (Member # 2632) on :
Hmmmm...I have only three coach stories.
1st Time was my very first LD train trip - Flagstaff to Worcester (S.W. Chief to CHI then the LSL to WOR). On the SWC I was able to snag to coach seats for the whole trip and was able to sprawl out thinking "This isn't so bad". I was also 19 at the time. The LSL at that time had Heritage Coach cars (I think) and I remember thinking that compared to the Superliners these Heritage cars reminded me of something that belonged in a train museum. Cast Iron looking seat hardware and loose rattling windows.
2nd Trip was my first Auto Train trip. Southbound was tight - lower level coach was filled to capacity and sleeping that night was uncomfortable even with a window seat.
3rd Trip was the Auto Train home. Again I was able to snag two coach seats and 5 pillows - no problems sleeping that night! ;-)
Erik
Posted by wayne72145 (Member # 4503) on :
My very first train trip was round trip coach from Reno to Boston in June '03. I loved it but had a harder time of it on the return after the newness wore off. Later that year I flew to Fort Lauderdale and booked coach back to Portland Oregon. On this trip my 58 year old body was screaming to be in a bed. I woke up on the Capitol Limited telling myself that when I got to Chicago I was going to up grade to a Roomette. A Roomette was available and I have never looked back. SOLD It turned me into a foamer. It is quite affordable once you learn the ropes and book well in advance. Coach was fine and got me riding trains but this old body likes a bed and shower every night.
Posted by gibg (Member # 2565) on :
I am a veteran of many, many coach trips in the 1940's and 1950's. During that era the railroads treated coach passengers with a respect that was awesome. The sleeper passengers were spoiled -- yes -- but the coach passengers on all-coach trains like the NYC Pacemaker and Pennsy Trail Blazer were treated royally. Even west of Chicago the CB&Q Denver Zephyr and the UP City of Denver treated their coach passengers extremely well, sometimes with separate dining and lounge cars, even on two-class trains. I think that at that time there was a real demand for low-cost quality transportation. The railroads figured that out and provided that service. It didn't match the comfort of the sleepers, but for a 16-hour trip it was more than adequate.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Patrick, I understand completely where you are coming from. While coach has rarely been overtly disparaged, there does seem to be a definite preference for sleepers here, and I have seen coach referred to as "steerage" on one or two occasions, which would qualify as elitism in my book.
Mr. Norman is right that one you've tried a sleeper you may be disinclined to go back, and I can say that is probably true for me. But I have many fond memories of coach trips, my most recent one being in 2001. The following year I booked a solo coach trip, but Amtrak called me to offer a cheap upgrade and I took it. Been a sleeper customer ever since even when traveling solo.
I was a regular coach rider back in my school daze, 1974-1978. Even though I was a poor student, I ate in the diner. Back then there was no other choice. The lounge only sold drinks, candy and chips. The Starlight had a counter service diner in the middle of the coaches in the early '70s, but that got taken off by 1975.
I always took a heavy jacket an used it as a blanket.
Probably TMI: Finding a clean toilet seat was often a challenge. I sometimes found myself going through 2 or 3 cars before I found a clean one. The cars back then only had one or two per car.
One thing I always liked about coach was that the passengers looked out for each other. In sleepers people keep to themselves outside the diner or lounge. One time I met a fellow who said "I never travel sleepers, all the crazy [fun] people are in coach." This was from a guy who could afford to travel in a full bedroom. He was a casting director in Germany's motion picture industry.
I almost considered making the northbound portion of my last trip in coach to save a little money, but when I booked the sleeper price was pretty low, so I took it.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
For me it depends on the price. If I'm unable to book a sleeper at a reasonable price then it's coach for me. Yes, there has definitely been strong preferences for sleepers posted here, even suggestions along the lines of "don't even try coach - fly or drive instead" - so I see where Patrick is coming from.
The truth is, we're not all rich. We can't all afford sleepers. Even though I'm now on a rather enjoyable salary, I still save the pennies rather than pay through the nose just because I didn't book far enough ahead.
Coach is certainly more sociable and that is an aspect I like. One rarely sees, much less talks, to others in sleepers. If you're a loner then perhaps that is the best place to be. Sure, you may get some "interesting" people in coach - but my nights in sleepers haven't always been peaceful either.
So my usual advice is, if you can afford it, great. If not, don't worry - you'll still enjoy it.
Geoff M.
Posted by RussM (Member # 3627) on :
There are people (myself included) who are not able to sleep in an upright position. That's one of the main reasons I wouldn't consider coach for a LD trip, and won't take a red eye flight. On occasion, I have wandered through the coach cars at night and seen a few passengers stretched out across both seats, with their legs projecting into the aisle. I guess that must be First Class coach.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
When I was younger, I traveled coach quite a bit. There is nothing wrong with it, and it is certainly less expensive than going in a sleeper. As others have said, if you can afford a sleepr, go for it, but if you can't, enjoy your coach experience.
Of course, since I am noted for several multi-night trips over the years, I pretty much need a sleeper if I'm going to be traveling for more than one night. I too cannot sleep sitting in a chair.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
On any trip, a decent night's sleep is important to me to be able to enjoy the experience. If the sleeper is too expensive or inconvenient hours, I'll take a budget airline that sadly is often cheaper than coach (recent flight Charlotte to Phoenix was $79).
That said, there is nothing wrong with a good coach trip during the daylight hours. Some of my best rail journeys were in coach on the likes of DRGW's Royal Gorge and Yampa Valley Mail, CofG's Nancy Hanks II and the Crescent from Atl-NOL.
However an overnight on ACL's Havanna Special was more like my more recent experience on the Silver Star. So it's not an Amtrak thing, but if you must go coach at night, I'd certainly avoid the Amfleet experience. If I was single and in my 20's, a good summertime railfan jaunt on the Capitol Ltd might be fun. Lots of time in the lounge car and night photos at all the station stops.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
Before moving to West Virginia (and long before I became a member of this Forum) I made quite a few LD trips on Amtrak using Charlotte NC and Salisbury NC as a base. Within the time span of just 2-3 years I had made well over four dozen cross country and long range overnight LD trips on practically every major East-West and North-South line there is, and only on one did I get a sleeper, the rest were always in coach (I did enjoy Business Class on the Carolinian to NYC and DC several times). From Maine to Florida, San Diego to Vancouver BC, DC to Seattle, Jax to LA, and plenty of trips in between I've logged some miles, but never really bragged or talked about it. My $16,000 annual salary prevented splurging on sleepers and back then getting deals on LD Amtrak trips in coach was relatively easy: cross country for less than $75 and overnights to NYC for $25 was not uncommon! I remember one Rail Sale where JAX-LA was 25$ one-way! I got lucky and never had a noise or odor problem with those who were in the same car. Rarely saw kids because I tried to travel when school was in session. I packed food and supplies but still enjoyed a wonderful breakfast in the dining car. On several occasions I took along my 10" portable DVD player and a healthy stack of movies to keep me occupied at night. Never could read while on the train, just too much interesting stuff out the window to look at. On one overnight LD on the Capital Limited I was unfortunate enough to get a seat neaxt to the top of the stairs and the landing light kept me up. After that trip I invested in a slumber mask and ear plugs. And on many trips I was lucky enough on the overnight to have an empty seat next to me so it became my bed. I could write a book on the amazing things I've seen, experiences I have had, and places I've been on Amtrak, but couldnt we all.
I do remember one exchange of words several years ago though that nearly drove me away from this Forum when one or more members arrogantly insinuated that those who road in Sleepers were better than those who road in coach. It infuriated me. Since then I rarely post here (less than 50x in the last two years) and come back to visit once in a blue moon. This recent spattering of posts I have made on Amtrak Security and the Lunar Eclipse are an exception.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
For those that can not sleep sitting up and others with crowd problems, all I can say is that you have sentenced yourself to a small world. You best forget any long plane rides, like the 11 to 13 hours for the various trans-Pacific flights, which can easily if you are going from mid US to anywhere other than first touchdown on the Asian side turn into 24 hour plus trips enter first airport to leaving last airport. I have done quite a few nights in coach, admittedly mostly younger, with emphasis on Memphis - Knoxville in the 1960's, and the longest being the return from Nam in late 1971, Oakland CA to Washington DC. (OK I did buy a roomette between Denver and Chicago, but then I had almost a month's pay as a 1LT plus travel money in my pockets.) Have made a few since, such as Washington DC to Jacksonville, Newark NJ to Mobile. Sleeper is nicer if you have the money, but if I want to travel I will certainly be in coach rather than stay home.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1959: I do remember one exchange of words several years ago though that nearly drove me away from this Forum when one or more members arrogantly insinuated that those who road in Sleepers were better than those who road in coach. It infuriated me. Since then I rarely post here (less than 50x in the last two years) and come back to visit once in a blue moon. This recent spattering of posts I have made on Amtrak Security and the Lunar Eclipse are an exception.
Mr. DMW, I readily acknowledge that I would stay at home rather than ride Amtrak (or Greyhound) LD Coach. I for one value my creature comforts more than I do trying to play Paul Theroux.
However, if any posting to the topic thread you found offensive is mine, I would appreciate if you would use this site's extensive archive and its effective search tool to locate such so that I, as well as possibly others, could identify where we went astray and take corrective action, if necessary.
Now what I believe you must accept is simply fact that 'straw polling' it, seems to establish that some 75% of the participants here who travel Amtrak LD do so in Sleepers. While that measurement is contrary to the "stats" Amtrak periodically releases as part of their Monthly Performance Reports where it is reported that some 85% of LD riders travel Coach, it is an apparent fact of life within the universe of the Forum that I would hope, you, Montana Jim, JONATHON, Amtraxmaniac, et al, who choose Coach will simply accept. I'm not better than you; I'm simply prepared to pay what I must to have the proper rest I need and the privacy I desire.
That Amtrak will 'do more' for a Sleeper passenger in the event of a disruption, i.e. offer a misconnect Sleeper passenger a hotel or air transportation rather than a station bench or Greyhound, is simply a property of "you get what you pay for'. As the mature gentleman you have always been at this Forum, both past and present, I know you will accept 'that's life'.
Having addressed this point, I am now prepared to move on.
Posted by graynt (Member # 17) on :
Don't we all love this debate..coach vs.sleeper! As many have mentioned, if the price of a roomette is inexpensive I will book a sleeper. I was looking at the Empire Builder in July and August, but over $500 for a roomette I can't justify. If it was the bucket level at around $200..sure. Cost always plays a big factor.
I ve taken many many cross country trips in coach,when I was younger.three nights in a seat. I probably couldn't do that any more,though. If you book a sleeper way ahead of time,you get the lowest rate. I booked the Starlight for July last December for $181. For all the amenities the Starlight affords(and hopefully it will be running)that price seems fair to me. On the other hand, an overnight trip on the Cardinal can run almost $400. Of course I know the Cardinal is a viewliner, but I would never pay that kind of money for a one night trip.
If you can afford it go for it..sleeper is far superior to coach, but if you enjoy train riding and you are able to handle it, coach ain't half bad!
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: For those that can not sleep sitting up and others with crowd problems, all I can say is that you have sentenced yourself to a small world. You best forget any long plane rides, like the 11 to 13 hours for the various trans-Pacific flights, which can easily if you are going from mid US to anywhere other than first touchdown on the Asian side turn into 24 hour plus trips enter first airport to leaving last airport. I have done quite a few nights in coach, admittedly mostly younger, with emphasis on Memphis - Knoxville in the 1960's, and the longest being the return from Nam in late 1971, Oakland CA to Washington DC. (OK I did buy a roomette between Denver and Chicago, but then I had almost a month's pay as a 1LT plus travel money in my pockets.) Have made a few since, such as Washington DC to Jacksonville, Newark NJ to Mobile. Sleeper is nicer if you have the money, but if I want to travel I will certainly be in coach rather than stay home.
I guess the difference is you fly because you have to (over water or time constraints), but you take the train because you enjoy it. Some just need more creature comforts, like a bed, especially as we get older.
Posted by Ham Radio (Member # 6587) on :
We've traveled both ways. If by sleeper we prefer lower level to avoid the seemingly endless parade of passengers.
No bias against coach, however on our last round trip on the Southwest Chief, the return leg from ABQ to FUL was marred by an inconsiderate woman who allowed her cellphone to ring all night instead of silencing the device.
It was enough to make one want to launch her from the vestibule. Posted by Rick Morris (Member # 5347) on :
I can't speak for all in this forum, since I have always traveled on Amtrak by coach (save that one time I used Business class on the Amtrak Cascades, but that's another story). But I can compare the seats on Greyhound to Amtrak. I would never, never want to travel by doggie bus for an overnight trip. Amtrak's seats are much more roomier, you can prop up your legs and, at least, they give you a pillow to use. With Greyhound, they give you cramped seats and practically no creature comforts. And don't get me started on airline seats. If I can swing a good price for a sleeper, I would try it. But, for the time being, coach is for me.
Posted by Spokker (Member # 6983) on :
Coach on a train is a hell of a lot better than coach on a plane. I endured an 11 hour flight in coach and I wanted out within the first hour. I could do 11 hours in Amtrak coach without breaking a sweat.
Posted by polycarp (Member # 6924) on :
I am 50 and planning on a trip from LAX to Chicago. I was not worried about two nights in coach each way until I read this thread. I can sleep in a reclining chair at home no problem, altho two nights of that might be a bit of a test.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Chalk me up as someone who actually prefers coach, even though I can afford a sleeper. I enjoy meeting and talking with fellow passengers on the train. Most of my pre-dawn and daylight hours are spent in the sightseer lounge anyway.
I have had nights in sleepers that were worse than coach -noisy fans and vents stuck open, annoying rattles, etc. I also feel slightly claustrophobic in a roomette and I like to see out windows in all directions.
With my extra travel pillow and hooded sweatshirt, I manage to create a comfy little nest, especially when I have both seats (quite common in the off season). And I am 62 years old with the standard set of aches and pains. I also usually get to pick what side of the train I sit on. Sometimes when I feel like stretching out, I sleep in the sightseer lounge on 3 seats and watch the stars.
Having said this, I must admit I get a sleeper fairly often, for the silliest of reasons. I am an early riser and I really desperately want my coffee before 6:30 when the lounge opens.
Posted by Railroad Bill (Member # 5097) on :
My wife and I have now made three cross country trips, another to WAS and a few short trips out of CLE and Indianapolis. We generally ride coach from Cleveland to Chicago because the sleeper fares for that short distance dont make much sense to us economically. We have always ridden roomette on the EB, CZ and SWC because: 1) we book 9 months ahead and get a good price 2) I am 6'6" and have trouble sleeping in a coach seat 3) They are a great quiet place to get away when things in the lounge car get crazy. 4) We like to use the lounges in Chicago, WAS, PDX 5) We enjoy eating in the diner because you meet so many interesting people as dinner guests at the table. (That is even better than the food) We do end up trying to sleep on our CLE-CHI and CHI-CLE coach rides and most of the experiences have been pretty good. Not too many snorers (of course I am guilty of this myself) and only a few wayward children. Our travels usually find us on the train from 2:30am at CLE so most people are asleep and we try not to awaken them as we board. (not always easy to do). I think if we were 20 years younger we might enjoy an overnight trip in coach but at this stage in our retirement lives, we choose to spend a little of our niece's inheritance in a roomette. Best wishes. Leaving soon on another trip to CA. Railroad & Mrs. Bill-- Loving Amtrak Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
My last overnight trip in coach was in 2002....
Spokane - Portland - LAX so that was 2 nights without bed, shower, etc. I had never been on the Coast Starlight before and wasn't sure if David Gunn would really shut the system down a month later or not. I had to make the trip....just-in-case.... and sleepers were prohibitively priced (if available) on such short notice.
As a youngster in the 1970's and 1980's I would make overnight trips in coach all the time. The old Amtrak 'Floridian', the 'SOUTHERN Crescent', the 'Silver Star'.
I prefer the sleeper now because sometimes it's nice to have your own space to retire to on a long trip. I agree somewhat with those who have admitted to sometimes not sleeping any better or arriving any more rested for having had the room.
These days I mostly splurge for the sleeper when I am cashing in Guest Reward points. When I am spending my own money, I stay mostly on the east coast where I can ride trains by day and grab hotels near train stations by night OR I will shop for the most cost effective sleeper routes (ie: Capitol Limited) available.
Posted by eldee (Member # 4544) on :
although we always travel in the sleepers, i've always preferred the seating in coach during daytime. the seats are more comfortable -- at least as compared to the roomettes -- and i really appreciate the leg-rests.
that being said, the lack of shower facilities are a huge drawback, to say nothing of general cleanliness of the car; so much so that, to paraphrase the great gilbert norman, if we can't afford the sleeper, we don't go. further along those lines i have yet to experience any amtrak coach on the long-distance services we use that has clean restrooms after four hours.
this is very disappointing to me, as the economy and comfort of amtrak coach is an appealing combination. i'll usually saunter back to the coaches during daylight hours and, if the attendant is present, doesn't mind, and the coach is lightly populated, will take a seat for a while and stretch out. i can certainly see long travel, especially on the refurbished superliner coaches.
if amtrak could just manage to keep the coaches clean, and could find coach attendants that actually stay in the car with their charges instead of retreating to the lounge for a multi-day talkathon with other layabout employees, i would find coach travel an option. until then, no thank you.
-- eldee waterbury, ct
Posted by dilly (Member # 1427) on :
In my heart. . . I prefer coach for long distance travel (although the shine definitely wears off somewhere around Hour 14).
In the social sense, the coach experience is less isolating, because I'm not holed up in a sleeping compartment. And since I don't sleep well in a coach seat and wake up frequently during the night, I'm able to see more of America -- the spooky little towns, shadowy rail yards, hellish-looking factories, and deserted railroad stations I normally miss when snoozing in a sleeper with the curtains closed. Traveling in a dimly-lit coach at 4 a.m. also has a uniquely eerie "Twilight Zone" quality about it, which I absolutely love.
In reality, however. . . I gravitate toward sleeper travel for true long-haul, cross-country overnights.
Arriving at my destination in a catatonic state, due to one or more sleepless nights in coach, just isn't worth it. It blows the entire day for me, and full recovery can take several more. With that said, however, I only go by sleeper if the current price, my budget, and my schedule agree, or I have enough free time and Guest Rewards miles stockpiled to cover a lengthy trip.
If not, despite my love for rail travel, I'm not ashamed to fly.
--------------------
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
I'll be one to admit that I am a glutten for punishment. At 31 yrs of age, I have a hunger for what some may call "roughing it". When I ride a train, I want to EXPERIENCE the trip. Maybe I fear if I got sleeper, I might relax to a point that I forget that I'm on a train. I'm one of those sick b@$^%$#$ who grin at the smell of railyard diesel and would favor a seat in a coach car right behind the locomotive. I did Los Angeles to New York (SWC to LSL) all in coach. I have to admit though that that trip got travel out of my system for about...a few weeks.
Posted by RR4me (Member # 6052) on :
Well, this has been interesting! My first LD trip was when I was 9, from the SF Bay Area to Chicago, Minneapolis and KC and back. As it included my 5 siblings and parents in a one income household, it was coach. My realtively vague memories are ALL positive - the dome car, the diner, the stations, all of it. Later, in 1981 I took my family to Denver from Martinez, on coach due to income constraints. Still exceptionally enjoyable, although my pregnant wife may ahve preferred a sleeper. We used an infaltabel boat for a crib for my one year old son. My later trips, as I worked up the salary scale, in 2004 on the Starlight and 2005 from Chicago to Martinez, were in roomettes. I found them much meor comfortabel, and also found that I did not miss the comraderie of coach much at all. I don't think I'm an elitist, I still enjoy nice conversations withe fellow travelers in the Diner or the Lounge, but as I can afford it, like the added creature comforts of Sleepers. This is not only true of train travel - I enjoy camping, but note that 30 years ago, our pictures showed us carrying a light back pack and a 1/4" ensloite pad, adn recent pictures show us loading our 4wd vehicles with such ammenities as absolutely necessary gas-driven blenders!
Posted by ehbowen (Member # 4317) on :
quote:Originally posted by polycarp: I am 50 and planning on a trip from LAX to Chicago. I was not worried about two nights in coach each way until I read this thread. I can sleep in a reclining chair at home no problem, altho two nights of that might be a bit of a test.
Polycarp—
Go for it. If you can sleep in a recliner, you will sleep fine in an Amtrak Superliner coach. The seats lean way, way back; there is both a footrest on the chair in front of you and a leg rest which pops up from your seat; leg room is ample and the width is very close to what airlines sell as "first class". I canNOT sleep in a recliner, but I would still take an overnight coach trip if cost was an object. (Two nights, however...let's see how much that upgrade would be....)
With that said—
I have taken many coach trips aboard Amtrak, and afterwards I have often wished that I had been able to travel sleeper. I have taken seven (one way) sleeper trips on Amtrak, and I have NEVER yet disembarked thinking that I would rather have saved the money and traveled in coach. So, if your budget permits, why don't you look at traveling outbound in coach and taking the return trip in a roomette. Sample both worlds.
Have a great trip!
Posted by Liberty Limited (Member # 4300) on :
quote:Originally posted by graynt: Don't we all love this debate..coach vs.sleeper! As many have mentioned, if the price of a roomette is inexpensive I will book a sleeper./....snip..../. On the other hand, an overnight trip on the Cardinal can run almost $400. Of course I know the Cardinal is a viewliner, but I would never pay that kind of money for a one night trip.
If you can afford it go for it..sleeper is far superior to coach, but if you enjoy train riding and you are able to handle it, coach ain't half bad!
Gray,
The usual $394 minimum price (CHI-BAL) of the roomettes on the Cardinal have always made it a non-starter for me as well. As a result, I've travelled this train overnight twice, both times in coach.
However, with a little investigative work, you will note that there are some dates now available for this train in which the roomette cost is LESS THAN HALF the typical cost, including some prime leaf-peeper dates. The result is the hen's teeth scenario in which riding the Cardinal in Sleeper may actually cost LESS than taking the Capitol on the same date. I might actually see if I can snatch one of these dates up as a treat.
Now it seems, the non-starter train for me for sleeper is the Southwest Chief. Most days I make pretend Amtrak Travel Agent, I see that roomettes on this leg alone can easily and routinely cost more than the entire cost (rail fare and accomodation) of going cross country in roomette from Seattle to Washington via the EB. Heck, I think I've seen a day or two where taking a room on the TE is cheaper than one on the SWC.
As for "BC," I almost NEVER plunk down for this upgrade, the only exception would be if I was going a long distance on the Carolinian or Vermonter, just for the benefit of the extra legroom for such a long trip over an Amfleet I. Otherwise, the cost of the upgrade vs. the rail fare is way too high, particularly for the "benefit" of sitting in a more sterile, restrictive environment. Besides, I'd rather come away from the trip saying how I met someone interesting in Coach versus boasting that I caught the highest available "class" on that train.
Posted by 4021North (Member # 4081) on :
I'll use the sleepers if I can afford to on an overnight trip, because I too am one of those who has trouble sleeping in an upright position, unless I am exhausted. (Incidentally, forcing people to sit upright is reportedly a method used by interrogators to deprive them of sleep.) I don't consider riding the sleepers versus coach to be a matter of class distinction. After all the extra sleeper fare is a contribution to the Amtrak system.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
Sadly I haven't ridden the Cardinal since Superliner days - but in those days a sleeper was far cheaper than the Capitol Ltd. Have things changed since it went Viewliner, or was I just lucky (twice)?
TE cheaper than SWC, well, again I've seen it cheaper and I've seen similar prices. But the way I look at it, you get more time and food on the TE than you do the SWC so it's worth it!
It's interesting how this thread has brought out several either new or rare posters (lurkers?). I think the general opinion can be seen which shows that there is NOT a bias towards sleepers, only that many of the MAIN contributers to this forum are of the sleeper variety which perhaps skewed the original thinking that there was a bias. Credit goes to Patrick for bringing this out into the open.
Geoff M.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geoff M: I think the general opinion can be seen which shows that there is NOT a bias towards sleepers, only that many of the MAIN contributers to this forum are of the sleeper variety which perhaps skewed the original thinking that there was a bias. Geoff M.
I wonder if there is a reason for this? Do members of this forum who are mainly coach riders have less to report, i.e. since there really is no 1-on-1 personal contact continuously through the day/trip with an attendant and most tend to eat the food they brought or in the snack bar instead of the diner car. Do coach riders just assume that almost every ride is about the same on any route so they just dont bother? Or are sleeper riders more apt to want to report their '1st class experience'? Seems coach riders would have a LOT less to report on regarding the functions and service on a trip than sleeper riders other than the scenery? Just curious...
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
As to meeting people: In all the years we traveled coach I never met anyone with whom I kept in touch. In 1991 I got to talking to the woman in the roomette across from me. Now 16 years later we are still friends and keep in touch frequently. One year the couple across the hall was friendly. They were a young couple from Holland on their first trip to the states. We were on the Capitol to Chicago. From there it was the CZ to Denver. They were going to California. We spent waiting time in Chicago going to Marshall Fields which Maria was so anxious to see. When we got back on the train they again had the room across. Since then they have married,moved to Norway and have a darling 7 year old son. And we still email back and forth A few years ago we got acquainted with the couple in the next bedroom.( the hall is a great meeting place).We write long Xmas cards to keep up with what each is doing. WE have met a number of people in the diner that were interesting and fun and we spent time together in one or the other bedroom. I think it depends on one's personality as to whether or not one interacts with others.
Posted by Charles Reuben (Member # 2263) on :
When you have travelled 100,000 miles in coach and have forgone flying for 10 years like I have, then I might be interested in listening to your little socialist rant.
In the meantime, don't criticize something you know nothing about. I took the plunge once and bought a sleeper and I didn't find it particularly luxurious, so I'm not sure where you are coming from. About the only advantage I found was that I had the ability to lie flat on my back. (And for some people it's worth the price.)
Your passion and obvious youth are admirable, but please, please don't criticize something unless you know what you are talking about.
As far as those people who say riding in coach is uncivilized, I would say those voices may be circulating about in your own head. I certainly haven't heard such things being said around here.
I guess some people here have their preferences, but I have found most people around here to be respectful of other's feelings. In the meantime maybe you should get a good job and try to afford a meal in the dining car. It might do you some good to treat yourself, on occasion.
And if you must eat in the cafe car, you might try the cheese pizza. It doesn't have preservatives.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
What "little socialist rant"? Didn't see one. Did I miss something?
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
The sleeper prices just don't add up! I can get a room at the Best Western and a few coffee shop meals for less than half what Amtrak is charging for a night in sleeper. Can anyone in here honestly say that the roomettes are nicer than what you might get at a Best Western or Howard Johnsons??? And the dining car meals are glorified Denny's meals...in fact I've had equally satisfying meals at Denny's.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Even though, Mr. Maniac, you identify a 'bargain basement" and a "crapshoot" (BW - a very "loose" franchise: some properties are quite upscale; others,well.....) hotel brand (neither of which I no longer personally stay at), I cannot state an Amtrak Roomette is nicer than either. But then sacrifices must be made if you are rolling towards your destination while you sleep.
I respect you're young, and in a profession where "doing things on the cheap" is part of the culture, but how about a little respect flowing the other way?
Nothing in this discussion has sunk to the real-life level I was witness to during June 1962 when, in the Super's Dome Lounge, I heard some Hollywood type sounding off when we (#1-18) were held out of Albuquerque until the El Cap (#2-18) had departed. This 'gentleman", in a voice for all the world to hear, let go with "how did they let the PEONS in Coach get ahead of us?"
Posted by Charles Reuben (Member # 2263) on :
Actually, anything beats sitting in coach for an extended period. True, there is something austere about the roommettes but they are private and you get to lay on your back, flat.
The thing that made me respond to your posting (after not having posted for a long, long time) is the way you are romantizing about a situation which is clearly not romantic.
OK, bring you own food if you like (I used to cook up dehydrated food in the now-defunct smoking lounge). Or romanticize about seats that lost their cush 30 years ago. Or complain about the price of food in the dining car and extoll the virtues of the cafe car. But please don't try to sell this to newbies because, to be totally frank, it kinda s u c k s .
Personally, I'm glad you posted because you definitely brought back some not-so-fond memories of travelling in coach.
And thanks to you, I plan to take a sleeper from LA to Chicago and guess what! It won't cost me a penny coz I'm gonna cash in on 20,000 Amtrak points I just happen to have lying around (from my Amtrak Credit Card).
In the meantime, enjoy your coach accommodations. Amtrak definitely needs more people around with your fortitude.
Posted by HillsideStation (Member # 6386) on :
You folks don't know what "coach" means. Amtrak coach is first class compared to other and older forms of transportation. Back in the late '50's early '60's when I was in love with flying, I took an 049 Constellation from New York to San Francisco...via Pittsburgh, Chichago, Kansas City, Wichita, Albuquerque,Phoenix, Los Angeles, Fresno and Oakland. I left New York around eight at night and arrived in San Francisco late the next afternoon. The only thing I really didn't like about the flight...I loved the landings and take offs...was the awful shape the cabin was in after a couple of stops. The stewardesses (cabin attendants) did little or no pick up and the passengers themselves were pretty much slobs, tossing newspapers, magazines and boxed lunch cartons around the cabin. I was reminded of that flight when, a couple of years ago I boarded one of Amtrak's nonsleeper intermediate distance trains, mid trip. Even in business class the cabin looked like "hogans alley" to use a phrase my mother used to describe my bedroom when I was a boy. If the Amtrak personnel, with the help of the passengers could keep the cabin relatively neat, it would go a long way to making long distance (read multistop) travel in coach not only bearalble but enjoyable...it already is comfortable.
Posted by dmwnc1959 (Member # 2803) on :
quote:Originally posted by HillsideStation: You folks don't know what "coach" means. Amtrak coach is first class compared to other and older forms of transportation.
...or that of passenger trains in 3rd World countries, if you really want to compare. I have ridden the passenger rails in India, where after your trip is done you HAVE to take a shower from all ther dust that comes in from the open windows. And their idea of ventilation (other than an open window) was a 4-blade fan mounted in the ceiling corner. I had bought a 30-day Indrail Pass and it was one of the MOST adventourous vacations I have ever taken! I have also ridden passenger trains in Egypt, Indonesia, Europe (I had bought two of the 30 day Eurail passes over a two year period), Japan, England, Brazil, Korea, among others and the differences in Coach Class are like night and day. And at the 'ripe old age of 50' my adventures in riding coach on AMTRAK are just another notch on my walking stick of life. ------------------------------ The best part of life is the journey, not the destination.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Haven't made India, but have a few others: Taiwan, China, South Korea, Japan, Malaysia, Thailand, Australia. Open windows for some of the travel in Taiwan, Malaysia, Thailand, Australia. (China was in Sleeper) 120 km/h (75 mph) in the last open window coach on meter gauge track in Thailand is a fantastic way to see the place. Putting my 53 year old 5'-11" 220 lb self in upper berth of a section sleeper built for meter gauge track and an average passenger size more like 5'-5" and 130 lbs was also an adventure. Would I do more of it? Absolutely.
Posted by Jarrod (Member # 4318) on :
Lots of interesting stories!
I have yet to travel by Sleeper, but am very excited to try this in the future!
I definitely like the "big family" feel of Coach, but I must admit that once my ticket is taken, I really don't spend time in my seat. I spend almost all day in either the Sightseer Lounge or the Dining Car. I usually end up sleeping in there too! I have nothing against my Coach seat, but the view and excitement in the lounge is magical.
Jarrod
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
I have taken coach on portions of some of my trips reported here and certainly don't look down on my fellow passengers taking it! I do prefer sleepers when I can afford them, but that's simply because they are more comfortable.
I also think one reason you get a lot of sleeper passenger reports here is that people here take a lot of trains and accumulate a lot of Guest Reward points and use them for sleepers on the long-distance reports they tend to report here.
I agree with the person above who said they'd especially prefer sleepers on the single-level (Viewliner) trains. I love having my own toilet! On the double-level, you don't; also, you have the nice observation car so you don't spend as much time in the sleeper (at least, I don't) whereas in the single-level trains the lounges are no great shakes so it's nice to have a sleeper. OTOH, the single-level train sleepers are the most expensive per night, I find!!! I was thinking the reason for the higher prices on those trains was because the single-level trains go into NYC and since hotels etc in NYC are more expensive,Amtrak can get the higher prices . . . but I was told recently by an Amtrak person on the phone that the reason for the higher prices for the roomettes is because those trains have the commodes!
Also, the sleepers on the double-level trains (Superliners)have poor lighting, by and large. It's hard to read in them after it gets dark. So being in coach can be better on that score. Also, one other thing I like about coach in general--if people near you don't close their curtains during daylight hours, you get to see out of both sides. In the roomettes you don't, and that can be irritating if a lot of good stuff is on the "other side," and people opposite almost never keep their curtains open when you want them to!!! (those sleeper snobs . . . hahaha just kidding)
One thing I hate about coach is the noise. Esp babies. Bring earplugs!
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Actually, Mr Norman, if your implying I'm being disrespectful, that would not be fair. I'm mearly criticizing a product that I feel is overpriced and overrated. I don't mean anything more personal than questioning someones taste in automobiles.
In terms of the claim that I'm 'romanticizing' coach travel, some of my opening comments for the thread were sarcasm, but some obviously took them to be more serious than intended.
This was not a subject that I meant to get personal with those that make more than I may. Something that's unreasonably priced is unreasonably priced no matter whether you make 30k a yr or 300k per year. I just feel as though Sleepers are not worth $300 dollars per night (whether they are rolling you to your destination or not). If I have personally offended anyone, it was not intended.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Patrick--
I'm prepared to accept that you originated this topic "in good faith" and simply wanted to address why, considering that the usual five "revenue" car LD train has some 240 Coach seats yet only 80 berths, most of the "trip report" discussion here relates to Sleeper travel.
You further related that while your present income level precludes Sleeper travel and limits your Food & Beverage purchases to what is sold at the Cafe', you also question, regardless of income level, how a relatively more comfortable night of sleep could be worth the steep surcharges Amtrak commands for Sleeper space.
These are perfectly relevant points, but somehow the presentation of such got "garbled'. As a result, Mr. Chatter, the first to respond and who has been around these various railforums for as long as have I, interpreted your material as some kind of a Socialist "rant" against "the Bourgeois'.
You later posted that you were being sarcastic, but this is written communication whereby an author cannot measure by facial reaction how his readers are reacting to a particular comment. My rule of thumb from now nine years of participation at these forums (as well as 67 years of life) is simply to avoid sarcasm, lest it 'come out wrong'.
Just my thoughts, and so far as I'm concerned, "let's move on".
GBN
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Awsome. No hard feelings towards anyone here then. Movingrightalong....LOL
Here's a valid question though...what is Amtrak's 'measuring stick' for how it determines price? It isn't exactly market driven, since, well, Amtrak has a monopoly on the market in the US. Does anyone know what sleeper travel in Europe or Asia go for? is it comparable to the cost in the US?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Right on Patrick; and in the spirit of moving on, Amtrak fares, both Coach and Sleeper, are definitely market driven. Amtrak has developed a demand pricing model much the same as any airline. Fares and Accommodation Charges go up during peak periods; down during the slack.
Overseas, there are quite a number of "econosnoozes' marketed, but rest assured, they are very spartan, i.e. one the Continental European roads call Couchettes that can have four, and even six, 'strangers' (same gender, absent a "slip up") snoozin' n' snorin' in the same Compartment. I once got "stuck' Madrid to Sevilla during 1990 when my Wagon Lit (First Class) Single Bedroom simply "wasn't'. I survived, and even though the three other fellows turned out to be "OK guys" (a Dutchman "terped" for me with the two Spaniards) and we all parted Sevilla with warm handshakes, it is "not exactly" an experience I'll be seeking out again in this life.
While I already know others here will disagree, I do not think Amtrak has much if any market for "Econosnooze" sleepers. Many roads pre-Amtrak had them, and save one, the Budd Slumbercoach, they all flopped. Besides, Amtrak already has an Economy Sleeper product - double occupancy of a Roomette, which IMO, is a single person accommodation that happens (wisely) to have two beds. But where Amtrak is remiss, I think, is that they sell the Roomette to the unwary just as if it was OK for two persons. I have met "never agains" on Auto Train (he a Cardiologist, she Chief of Nursing) who got "sold' (which to me was "conned") by an Amtrak reservationist with nary a word about Bedrooms. To have listened to them the night before (no BR's available for on-board upgrade) and at Sanford awaiting our autos, I think their S-Class Bennie had a better time of it than they.
Regretably, I must acknowledge the "flop of flops" was on my MILW (employed 1970-81) with their Touralux cars that were built new for Economy service. Most other roads assigned cars, that otherwise would have been withdrawn from revenue service.
Posted by NJBill (Member # 5602) on :
Question:
My kids are now 11,11,13. We always had sleepers and we are trying coach for the first time this summer Aug 2008. DO you think we will have any difficulty in getting seats together? We are going from Philly to Miami.. Thanks for your comments..
Posted by CHATTER (Member # 1185) on :
Since you are getting on the Silver Star or Meteor early in the run, I should not think that obtaining seats together would be difficult.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Assuming this is a reserved seat train, you shouldn't have a problem. My coach experience is that (especially early in the run) the attendants assign seats and seem to do a pretty good job at filling them in a way were families can be seated together. I notice they will bunch single passengers together so that there are plenty of open seats together...at least that's the case out west.
Posted by 4021North (Member # 4081) on :
quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: I notice they will bunch single passengers together...
How about having a car where they did this intentionally...an introduction service, where you rode with one person for say, an hour, and then another person. Or a dinner train with formal introductions where all the passengers were single in the social sense. Perhaps there already is something similar.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
AmtrakHarmony.Com
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Just stopping by for a random comment -
I prefer NOT having the commode in my roomette which is why I prefer to use my Guest Reward Points for travel on Superliner-equipped trains.
It's a space issue rather than an odor issue. I sleep better 'feet to the engine' and on my last trip aboard the Crescent the sleeper was positioned such that sleeping head to rear would have left my head in the narrower space between wall and toilet. Not very comfortable.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: AmtrakHarmony.Com
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
"Hi! I like ponies and I could teach you to play the bagpipes"
heeheehee
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
David, I thought Gil had outdone himself but you win the prize for that one!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Volks, it appears that "DB-Harmony.de" is 'real life':
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
my adventures in riding coach on AMTRAK are just another notch on my walking stick of life.