Any passenger trains ever roll through Tennessee Pass? Any chance of it ever re-opening to freight traffic?
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
The Royal Gorge not likely. "Between MP 171.9 and MP 335.0 the main train is not in service."
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
I have a reprint of a 1929 Western Pacific timetable that shows the Chicago-San Francisco "Scenic Limited" running through Glenwood Springs, <Tennessee Pass>, Salida and Royal Gorge. Since CBQ and D&RGW were the other two roads used, this must have been the train that eventually became the California Zephyr.
The Moffat Tunnel was completed in 1928 and the Dotsero cutoff to Glenwood Springs was completed in 1934, shortening the route from Denver to the West Coast by 176 miles. This probably replaced Tennessee Pass as the route for passenger trains.
In my opinion, the route through Royal Gorge and Tennessee Pass is even more scenic than the current route of the California Zephyr. If UP never opens it up again as a rail route, I hope they make a trail out of it. The rails seemed to be in good shape up until the time they closed the pass, and D&RGW freights ran quite fast up the Arkansas River Valley.
A tourist train still runs through Royal Gorge.
Posted by pismobum (Member # 2628) on :
D&RGW ran regular service with the 'Royal Gorge' for many years (dunno when it stopped). Rode a special PRHS move in 1980's - Amtrak powered with lots of PV's from Salt Lake to La Junta, then they split the consist with sections going east-west attached to Amtrak 3-4
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
I rode the tourist train through Royal Gorge just this past summer. Very impressive and they will sell a ride in the cab for the serious railfan. (I rode the dome this time, thanks).
Seems like regular passenger service through the gorge ended in 1967 or 68.......perhaps in conjunction with the loss of the RPO contracts? The last passenger train was a Denver-Pueblo-Salida-Grand Junction local with connections for points east on the Missouri Pacific at Colorado Springs and for Salt Lake City at Grand Junction. I have a timetable for it from the mid-1960's in my collection.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
UP has chosen not to abandon the line, but it's not in active service.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Kicking the ties a bit at Tennessee Pass last summer I noted rail and ties seemed in good condition (welded rail dated 1997) probably thanks to the relatively dry climate. Seems like a lot of scrap value just sitting there if UP didn't have some notion of opening or selling the line at some point.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
Aren't parts of it used for a rather elongated storage yard these days?
I thought a couple of the reasons for semi-abandonment were the fierce gradients (>3%) and availability of other routes to accommodate the traffic.
Geoff M.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
Got a hi-rail trip from Pueblo yard to Grand Junction in 1994, courtesy of SP (was doing some work for Anschutz at the time as a consultant). Wow! What a railroad.
Ruling grade is 3.25% from Minturn east up to Tennessee Pass. We met an EB coal train on the grade with 12 locos (4 head end, 4 as "swing" helper. 4 on the the rear). Don't know how you make money with trains like that, but it was a very impressive sight.
WB grade is much more gradual, less than 1.5% IIRC.
Railroad is in good shape west to the pass. On the west side, in the Eagle River valley, rail is WW 2 vintage 112-lb. bolted, and in 1994 it was worn right down to the joint bars. Lots of shiny bars. I don't know if UP replaced it.
Old railroad "Y" was still in place at Minturn -- surrounded by luxury ski condos up on the hills. What an anachronism!
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by rresor: On the west side, in the Eagle River valley, rail is WW 2 vintage 112-lb. bolted, and in 1994 it was worn right down to the joint bars. Lots of shiny bars. I don't know if UP replaced it.
Same was true for much of the ICG/ICRR Grenada District at the time it was downgraded and all through traffic, including the City of New Orleans moved to the low grade freight route.
And, consider that in 1946-47 the 112 lb section was redesigned into the 115,as was 131 into 132 because of the frequency of head and web separations or vertical split heads, I forget which, due to the small head-web radius, it is amazing tnat any of this stuff stayed in track so long.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
If I were a senior cost accountant in Omaha right now, I'd weigh the scrap value against the cost of removing the track and any required environmental remediation.
Given the state of the economy, I'd probably recommend to management: We can defer scrapping the line; the steel isn't going anywhere if we run a hi-rail inspection every month or so...
If this had been a year ago, I might have answered differently, but UP, like the market, has lost share price in the current mess.
Usual disclaimer applies
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geoff M: Aren't parts of it used for a rather elongated storage yard these days? Geoff M.
You're thinking of the former Rio Grande railroad further south. The old Creede Branch has like 40 miles of unwanted TTX cars parked along it starting just outside Monte Vista and going west. The shortline San Luis & Rio Grande rents this out-of-service line by the linear foot to store the cars and they go on for miles and miles.
I had a link from a local newspaper about a year ago which I'll try to find again when I have more time. Essentially, the people who live or have businesses near this railroad were unhappy having the cars there......and I can't blame them.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Mr PRessley,
Have them call 1-800-WHINERS
We had a case in Kansas City about 10 years ago. A branch line lay dormant. It had been in farmfields. Suburban KC grew up around it.
One day the "circus train" came through, along with treetrimmers and all manner of stuff. Neighbors went ballistic, city sued the railroad.
The city lost at the Federal Court of Appeals level, the line had never been "abandoned" in law, in fact had never been taken OOS formally. Folks hadn't realized a track truck had done the line once a month all the years of inactivity.
I wish those folk well, they won't win.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Hi Pullman,
It's not a case of an unused branch line suddenly seeing a train and upsetting people. I'd clearly side with the railroad on that one.
The situation here is that these TTX cars have been parked coupled together stretching for at least 30-40 miles for about three years now. While there are breaks in the string of cars for each grade crossing, that's about it. Business owners have a legitimate beef when these stored cars infringe on their visibility from US 160.
No, they won't win.....but in this case I can understand why the citizenry is upset.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
In our recent trip along I-25, many sidings on BNSF Raton line were filled with empty intermodal flats. Clearly business isn't what it used to be. However most sidings were in locations where only the jackrabbits would care.
Talked to a BNSF signal maintainer in Raton who, along with some others, has an office in the station. He said they would be closing up shop there shortly once the contract with the state is finalized (I thought it already was).
Said he would be working on the Powder Rivr Sub - I'm not sure where that office would be. When asked about the fate of the line he said a contractor would probably take over maintenance - if it wasn't pulled up for scrap.
Surprisingly I did see an inspection train (track geometry car) near Las Vegas, NM.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
As long as 3/4 route over Raton, NM will have to keep the line in good shape. That means they will have to lease track maintenance from someone.
Of course, the day Amtrak convinces BNSF to put 3/4 on the Belen cutoff, it's all over for Raton. Watch for the track removers.
ATSF and later BNSF have been not bad corporate neighbors to NM. I would think it pays to keep that relationship going.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by palmland: In our recent trip along I-25, many sidings on BNSF Raton line were filled with empty intermodal flats. Clearly business isn't what it used to be. However most sidings were in locations where only the jackrabbits would care.
Talked to a BNSF signal maintainer in Raton who, along with some others, has an office in the station. He said they would be closing up shop there shortly once the contract with the state is finalized (I thought it already was).
Said he would be working on the Powder Rivr Sub - I'm not sure where that office would be. When asked about the fate of the line he said a contractor would probably take over maintenance - if it wasn't pulled up for scrap.
Surprisingly I did see an inspection train (track geometry car) near Las Vegas, NM.
There is another Harvey House in Las Vegas, NM just crying for the LaPosada treatment......
Oh.......for a winning lottery ticket.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
quote:Originally posted by notelvis:
There is another Harvey House in Las Vegas, NM just crying for the LaPosada treatment......
Oh.......for a winning lottery ticket. [/QB][/QUOTE]
So true, somewhere in our trip pictures there is a photo of it next to the restored station. We stayed at the Plaza hotel there. Another classic hotel and a very satisfying substitute for a Harvey House in that dusty town which is well on its way to coming back to its former glory.