Quiz time; and this one goes out to Ms. Sojourner.
How many of the 50 US State Capitols can one get to on a scheduled, heavy rail, passenger train, operating agency notwithstanding?
I THINK the above takes care of any "gray".
First to post the correct answer WILL be offered a prize from me (honest; won't say what here account possible copyright infringement).
I shall not respond until there is an answer agreeing with mine, and at that time, I will post my compilation.
Decisions with regard to any disputes are made by the sponsor (me) and are final.
Posted by wayne72145 (Member # 4503) on :
25
Posted by zephyr (Member # 1651) on :
28
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
27
Posted by amtrak92 (Member # 14343) on :
28, unless you consider east lansing MI, then it would be 29.
Posted by zephyr (Member # 1651) on :
My 28 doesn't include East Lansing (MI), Rensselaer (NY), and Lacey (WA).
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Zephyr, I was prepared to include all of the three stations you note - you can see the "un-dome" from one of them!.
When you think you have covered all the Grey someone in good faith finds more!
Posted by zephyr (Member # 1651) on :
Then I respectfully request my answer be changed to 31.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
31 is so noted
Posted by Southwest Chief (Member # 1227) on :
So what's the answer?
Got a list?
Posted by Southwest Chief (Member # 1227) on :
Oops,
Guess it hasn't been said yet. Not 31 I suppose.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Excluding Hawaii and Alaska, you cannot get on Amtrak in:
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Edited. Homer Simpson moment, yes, the Missouri River Eagle stops in Jeff City.
Carson City, Nevada
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Who else will add to the list?
Posted by CG96 (Member # 1408) on :
quote:Originally posted by PullmanCo: Excluding Hawaii and Alaska, you cannot get on Amtrak in:
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Jefferson City, Missouri
Carson City, Nevada
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Who else will add to the list?
You also cannot reach Madison WI, by rail, nor can you reach Tallahassee, FL, nor Baton Rouge,LA, nor Columbus, OH, nor Frankfort, KY or Nashville, TN. Bismarck, ND, Helena, MT, and Boise, ID, and Pierre, SD, cannot now be reached by rail.
Posted by Southwest Chief (Member # 1227) on :
Remember though that Santa Fe, New Mexico is now open to rail service via the regularly scheduled RailRunner which I'd say qualifies as "heavy rail". However the also regularly scheduled Santa Fe Southern, being a tourist line, doesn't fit in my opinion.
Isn't Phoenix, Arizona out as well? I know Amtrak is connected by bus. But that's not by rail. I think they have a light rail service as well, but again that doesn't count.
Posted by chrisg (Member # 2488) on :
My list of State Capitols served by a passenger train.
California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Minnesota, Kansas, Nebraska, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carloina, Virgina, West Virginia, Missouri, Michigan ie East Lansing, Illinois, Indiana, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusett, Mississippi, Kansas, and Vermont all have Amtral Service.
Idaho, Wyoming, Tennesse, North Dakota and Florida, Arizona, Alabama and Ohio all once had Amtrak Service
New Mexico via New Mexico Railrunner
Montana, South Dakota, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Deleware, Iowa, Maryland, Louisana, Maine, Nevada, New Hampishere, Alaska and Hawaii has never had Amtrak Service.
Chris
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
You cannot get to any of them, unless you walk a good distance or take a cab. I do not know of any train stop at a State capital building.
Posted by City of Miami (Member # 2922) on :
Well, Springfield Il is a 5-6 block walk. I just did it last month.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Remember that Nashville, TN now has the Music City Star commuter trains Monday-Friday.
That would count as 'heavy rail' BUT it connects to no other heavy rail.
So.....I'll accept Chris G's list, add Nashville, and say 30.....that's assuming that we're also accepting Montpelier Junction in Vermont.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Topeka ATSF Depot aka Topeka Amtrak to Kansas Capitol is 12 blocks.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Jeff City Missouri Pacific Depot aka Jeff City Amtrak is 400 feet to the East Corner of the Missouri Capitol.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Presley has submitted the answer, 30, I am looking for; Here is my compilation; X - Denotes rail passenger service available
AL Montgomery AK Juneau AZ Phoenix AR Little Rock X CA Sacramento X CO Denver X CT Hartford X DE Dover FL Tallahassee GA Atlanta X HI Honolulu ID Boise IL Springfield X IN Indianapolis X IA Des Moines KA Topeka X KY Frankfort LA Baton Rouge ME Augusta MD Annapolis MA Boston X MI Lansing X MN St Paul X (corrected) MS Jackson X MO Jefferson City X MT Helena NE Lincoln X NV Carson City NH Concord NJ Trenton X NM Santa Fe X NY Albany X NC Raleigh X ND Bismarck OH Columbus OK Oklahoma City X OR Salem X PA Harrisburg X RI Providence X SC Columbia X SD Pierre TN Nashville X TX Austin X UT Salt Lake City X VT Montpellier X VA Richmond X WA Olympia X WV Charleston X WI Madison WY Cheyenne
I will review reasonable challenges (sorry, Mr. Mike Smith, yours is not one of such). Failing such, I'll arrange with Mr. Presley to forward him his prize.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
We should have a contest to "guess" the next state capital to get regularly scheduled Amtrak service. My top two choices would be Tallahassee and Des Moines.
Posted by zephyr (Member # 1651) on :
Great quiz. Your list looks fine to me.
And nice job, Mr. Pressley.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Wow..... I feel like I just won the Kentucky Derby! Thank you, thank you.
In the interest of fairness - Chris Guenzler did the heavy lifting here. All I did was read his submission, note that he had not accounted for Nashville's Commuter Rail, and chipped in with that one tidbit.
So.....props to Chris Guenzler. He would have gotten the Music City Star were he able to connect to it from another passenger train!
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike: We should have a contest to "guess" the next state capital to get regularly scheduled Amtrak service. My top two choices would be Tallahassee and Des Moines.
With Wisconsin entering the Talgo Sweepstakes, I would not be surprised to see Madison, WI with rail passenger service within 5-10 years. I'd actually see the odds are higher for Madison than for Asheville, NC.
Perhaps the next quiz would be to name the State Capitols with heavy rail passenger service during 'reasonable' daytime hours. That eliminates Topeka and Columbia, SC; Little Rock and Lincoln too......any others coming off the list? Remember, Salt Lake City now has commuter rail although Amtrak only comes out at night there.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Even if it now appears that no reasonable challenge is forthcoming, I will hold things open through today. I have PM'd Mr. Presley advising him of his prize.
Oh well, I guess Ms. Sojourner was out sojourning, but I would presume the compilation will be of value, at least as a checklist, for her.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
At this time, with no challenges having been made, I declare the contest is closed and David Presley is the winner.
The prizes I am awarding are Xeroxed (whoops Konica/Minolta) copies of two editorials that DPM wrote during 1st Quarter 1968.
In one such titled "Excuse the First Person", DPM acknowledged he was breaking all the rules of journalism, starting with editorializing using the pronoun I, but he was watching what he loved and championed through the 25 years he had been "at the throttle" die a visible death. This not only included rail travel on trains that were the flagship, the public image, of long standing transportation companies, it also included point to point ocean transportation as it was during this era that the RMS "Queen Mary" was withdrawn.
The other editorial is titled "Santa Fe Calls it Quits" and was DPM's reaction to the Santa Fe, a road that was determined not to downgrade their product even when others such as UP, GN, and NP had clearly downgraded theirs, to cutting their service to a nucleus "one a day" model.
Even if I have not laid eyes on either piece in over forty years, they are vividly etched in my memory.
The pieces are not DPM the pragmatist, as was the case with "Who Shot the Passenger Train" who was formulating both the role of the future intercity train but also how that product would be delivered to the public (a separate passenger train company), this was the romantic DPM, who wished to share with his readers that something he valued, as likely they did as well, was 'all over".
They'll be in the mail by sundown, Mr. Presley.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Excellent -
I became a David P. Morgan fan when a subscription to Trains Magazine, a gift for my 10th birthday, began arriving at my house in December 1972,
I liked that DPM had an affinity for passenger trains, Southern Railway's 4501 steam locomotive, and Louisville Union Station.
This will be fun reading.....perhaps this weekend!
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Sorry I wasn't on line for a bit. Your list sounds about right, Mr Norman, though I don't always know all the light vs heavy metal details. For me, the goal is to get to these capitols with a train whenever possible, without a plane, and without me driving. I also try to avoid Greyhound when I can but cannot always.
I have actually been to 28, 29 if you count Juneau (I was there on a cruise before I was visiting capitols, so I went to the glacier instead!), but not all with trains. I mean, there usually were trains involved, but then I sometimes have taken a bus or gone with a friend by car to the actual capitol.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Presley--
"In the mail"
Ms. Sojourner, light rail refers to rapud transit and streetcar lines completel;y separate from standard railroad operations.. Heavy rail means what are thought of as railroads - namely the Class I and II industry as well as any passenger train agency operating trains that could interface with such.
It was necessary that I made that distinction for the quiz in that Phoenix has a "Light Rail" streetcar system, and otherwise the contention could have been made that it be included in the listing.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Mr. NOrman: In the transit related field, "Heavy Rail" means such things as Washington Metro, Atlanta MARTA, etc. The railroads themselves are in another world, literally. Based on the FRA, a transit system of the above type or the light rail type is not subject to their regulation, so long as it is not connected physically or temporally to the railroad system. That is, something like the Baltimore light rail, which does host freight service is still classified as exempt from FRA regulation because freights and transit cars are not allowed on the system at the same time.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Harris, while it was of no concern with the quiz, I should have used the phrase "over rail lines accepted to handle Class I freight traffic".
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Mr. Norman:
No problem. the terminology varies from place to place and can be confusing. What I said seems to be the current revealed wisdom in the rail and transit industry in the US.
Other places are different. For example, Hong Kong subway is called the Mass Transit Railway.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
I am a mileage tracker and have pretty much reached the point that systems such as the DC Metro or Atlanta Marta do not count whereas mileage ridden on light rail vehicles DOES.
I make this distinction because light rail in many ways is a reincarnation of interurban transit systems AND because often the light rails are constructed over former heavy rail right of ways.
Bottom line - DC Metro does not count; Baltimore light rail does.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
I'd like to add a couple of things to Mr. Norman's quiz. First, state capitals ("capital" is the town/city, "capitol" is the building) that had Amtrak service at one time, but do no longer:
Bismarck, ND Boise, ID Cheyenne, WY Columbus, OH Helena, MT Montgomerly, AL Nashville, TN Phoenix, AZ Tallahassee, FL
Second, state capitals without any rail service at all (freight or passenger):
Annapolis, MD Carson City, NV Honolulu, HI
Did I forget anybody?
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by rresor: I'd like to add a couple of things to Mr. Norman's quiz. First, state capitals ("capital" is the town/city, "capitol" is the building) that had Amtrak service at one time, but do no longer:
Bismarck, ND Boise, ID Cheyenne, WY Columbus, OH Helena, MT Montgomerly, AL Nashville, TN Phoenix, AZ Tallahassee, FL
Second, state capitals without any rail service at all (freight or passenger):
Annapolis, MD Carson City, NV Honolulu, HI
Did I forget anybody?
In Montana, Amtrak operated via Butte and never served Helena.
How about we compile a list of state capitals that had rail passenger service on April 30, 1971 but did not after May 1, 1971 when Amtrak began operation. For interest sake, tell us who operated that last train. For this list I have -
Frankfort, KY (last served by the Ashland, KY - Louisville, KY section of C&O's 'George Washington'.)
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Frankfort KY at present does not even have Greyhound either. To get there I will have to go by bus to Lexington (From Cincinnati, I suppose) and then take a TAXI--or go by car (but then I'd have to find someone who is interested in visiting)
Annapolis may not have a train but it's easy to get to by Amtrak if you go to BWI and take the airport shuttle service. I really enjoyed my visit. And Carson City is close to Reno.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
About six months ago I read, on a Bus Drivers email group I frequent, that some charter company had proposed operating a scheduled bus service bewtween Louisville and Ashland via Frankfort and Lexington.
This service depended on gaining a subsidy from the state of Kentucky which, apparantly, did not materialize.
Maybe not having scheduled bus service to Frankfort is how Kentucky 'keeps the riff-raff' out.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Frankfort KY at present does not even have Greyhound either. To get there I will have to go by bus to Lexington (From Cincinnati, I suppose) and then take a TAXI--or go by car (but then I'd have to find someone who is interested in visiting)
Ms. Sojourner, If "none of my business" I'll certainly respect, but in the past, you have noted that you are a licensed driver and own an auto.
I'm not certain what your aversion to rental autos happens to be, but if you are to complete your 50 state sojourn to each capital city using surface transportation, it now appears the only reasonable and practical way you will do so, in the case of several, is to rent autos.
Just wonderin' but if NOMB I certainly respect that.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Interesting sidebar -
Greyhound's website no longer lists service to Ashland, KY either where they, in the recent past, shared the former C&O freight station with Amtrak.
If you query a route from Huntington, WV to Columbus, OH they still show a scheduled stop in Ashland BUT the website will not sell you a ticket to or from Ashland.
Bizarre.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I learn new things every day; thank you Mr. Resor:
A minor point, but Mr. Norman's list incorrectly lists Minneapolis as the capitol of Minnesota. St. Paul is the capitol, and the Amtrak depot is within the city limits of St. Paul. In the future, Amtrak will move back into the magnificent Union Depot in downtown St. Paul, and the capitol will be both within walking distance and a short hop on light rail.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
From what I have read, it looks like the chances of restoring Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha are very poor. However, should the route make a comeback, Helena would probably be a stop as the route could not go through Butte. The track through "Homesteak Pass", east of Butte, has been out of service for a long time and would be very costly to restore. Thus, Helena would be the alternative stop.
Does anyone know of the status of the closing of the Amtrak Station in Sandpoint, Idaho? I thought it was already closed, but cannot confirm on the net. I know it is in need of repair. I hope it remains..a last remnant of the Northern Pacific RR.
Richard
Posted by chrisg (Member # 2488) on :
How about St Cloud and those other station in Minnesota as they are all ex Northern Pacific.
Chris
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by yukon11: From what I have read, it looks like the chances of restoring Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha are very poor. However, should the route make a comeback, Helena would probably be a stop as the route could not go through Butte. The track through "Homesteak Pass", east of Butte, has been out of service for a long time and would be very costly to restore. Thus, Helena would be the alternative stop.
Richard
You are correct. If the North Coast Hiawatha were to return, it would now have to operate via Helena rather than Butte.
In July 2002, working with the Madison Scouts Drum & Bugle Corps, I drove a bus over 'Homesteak Pass' and noted that the railroad was still in place......but with lot's of scrub brush growing in the right of way and numerous places where the tracks dangled in the air over little washouts. The integrety of that roadbed is pretty much shot and the whole thing would have to be rebuilt for it to handle trains again.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Is it "Homesteak Pass" or "Homestake Pass?" The former sounds like a back yard barbecue specialty..........
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
My error: the spelling should be "Homestake Pass".
Chris: I did not think of towns, east of Montana, that the NP might have shared with the Great Northern. I tried to find a map of the Great Northern route and could not find one with good graphics. Here is a map of the Northern Pacific route:
If the North Coast Hiawatha does make a comeback, it would also be nice if they had a branch to Gardiner, like the old days, for people travelling to Yellowstone. I don't know if there are even old tracks, in place, for that old branch.
One of my favorite old NP stations is the one in Wallace, Idaho. I believe it is now a museum:
Richard
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
All stations in Minnesota west of St.Paul are ex-Northern Pacific. BNSF chose to use the ex-NP mainline instead of the ex-GN from St.Paul to Fargo. GN's mainline, and both the GN and original Amtrak Empire Builder used to run via Wilmar, and this is still an operating secondary route for BNSF. There was another GN line from the Twin Cities to Fargo that followed the current route of I-94 and was used by the Western Star to Seattle, but that route has been mostly torn up and turned into a trail. When Amtrak's Empire Builder ran via Wilmar, the North Coast Hiawatha ran on the current route of the Builder.
Would Livingston no longer be on the route of the North Coast Hiawatha? That is sad. I had a wonderful bicycle trip through Yellowstone coming off the NCH once. The ride up to the park from Livingston on an unused old paved highway with a strong tailwind was delightful.
Whoopee! My 1,000th post!
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
quote:Originally posted by yukon11: From what I have read, it looks like the chances of restoring Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha are very poor. Richard
Given that no Congresscritter is pushing Amtrak to study the route through an amendment to appropriating legislation, I think that's a safe statement.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Congratulations, TwinStarRocket, on your 1000 posts!