With the thread about high-speed rail, I'm reminded of train-watching during my graduate school days at the University of Maryland.
There was a metroliner which departed Washington northbound at 5pm and did not stop until Baltimore. Early on I found the bridge over the tracks at the BWI station to be a safe place to observe this train up close and at speed.
Later, I discovered that it was entirely possible and remarkably exciting to get up to the platform at New Carrollton with a gaggle of commuters waiting for a MARC train and stand there......holding on to something of course.... as this train rushed by at 110mph just a few feet away.
It was even more exciting during the testing of the Swedish X-2000 and German ICE trains.
The exhileration of youth perhaps?
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
As I recall, there was also a Metroliner that did not stop in Baltimore. I remember seeing it on the freight bypass track around the station.
That didn't last long. Unfortunately there were not enough end to end riders to make that work, thanks, no doubt, to the various airline DC-NY-Boston shuttle flights. I guess that's still the case.
Posted by amtrak92 (Member # 14343) on :
I think they even tried the concept up the non stop metroliner to the accela, and I don't think it worked well.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
There have been several attempts to operate non-stop or limited-stop trains on the NEC. The first was a nonstop Metroliner from NYP to WAS in the morning, returning in the evening, carded for 2:30 each way. I rode it in 1969, and it was a wild ride. We did indeed use the (now removed) freight bypass around Baltimore, and ran "up the middle" through Trenton at 125. But we still had to run through the platforms at 30th Street, PHL.
The nonstop acquired, first a Beltway stop, then a PHL stop, and finally a Baltimore stop (and a 2:50 timing) before it was discontinued altogether.
Second attempt was in the early 1990s, when one of the "Metroliners" (five Amfleet and an AEM7) departing WAS at 4 PM ran nonstop to PHL, then made a number of stops in New Jersey (Trenton, Princeton Junction, Metropark, Newark). Overall schedule was three hours, but WAS to PHL was carded for 1:28 (Acela Expresses do it today in 1:34, with stops at Baltimore and Wilmington. Ah, progress!)
Finally, last year Amtrak ran a morning Acela Express that ran nonstop PHL to WAS. I rode it once. I believe the running time was 1:30.
All these experiments failed for the same reason -- not enough patronage.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Which supports the notion that what makes rail transit viable is that the number of possible trip combinations multiplies as stops are added.
The key, at least in a corridor, is finding the correct balance between number of stops and the effect on overall running time. What is the fastest time you can achieve with sufficient stops to fill your train?
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
On the Taiwan High Speed Railway, the difference in run time between a train making 2 stops between and points and a train making 5 stops between end points is 25 minutes, or 8 mintes 20 seconds per stop. Given the additional likely duration of a stop in the US, call that an extra 10 minutes per stop for a train moving at 186 mph maximum. I do know from my own observations that for a 79 mph train, the additonal time per stop is a little over 3 minutes plus station dwell time.
These two bits of information should be sufficient to give someone a feel of what additional stops do to a schedule
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: -........ I do know from my own observations that for a 79 mph train, the additonal time per stop is a little over 3 minutes plus station dwell time.
Interesting, George. Since Amtrak seems unable to make a fast station stop, I would guess the total time to stop (including slowing and accelerating) might be near the 10 minutes you mention for high speed trains. On a corridor train where speed is important fewer stops seems critical. Not so much on a LD train.
While a train like the Palmetto has bursts of 79 mph running, I suspect the additional stops at very small towns, like Dillon (pop. 6400) or Kingstree, SC (pop. 3500) is what makes it a popular train. Folks in those towns never got out of the train riding habit from those days when their families rode the ACL and SAL secondary trains (most of the premier trains traveled through the Carolinas at night - enroute FL).
Posted by City of Miami (Member # 2922) on :
Empire Service had some very quick stops last week when I was on it several times. Hudson, Rhinecliff had stops of at most 2-3 minutes even though dozens of people got on and off. And they could do better if they had people get off at one door and on at another. That shouldn't be too hard.
I remember those Metroliners coming online in the late sixties when I was living in NYC as a young man. As I recall there were problems of windows being sucked out when 2 trains met at speed. I only rode the local to Trenton a few times - and once took a bus up to Albany to visit an aunt, not knowing the train up there existed.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by City of Miami: As I recall there were problems of windows being sucked out when 2 trains met at speed.
This porblem appears to have been solved with the Acela trainsets, despite still having the required emergency window set-ups.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
The problem was actually solved a long time ago. It occurred only once, when a Metroliner EMU overtook a set of ancient MP54s with wood-framed windows between WAS and BAL (PRR and PC used to run one round trip a day with MP54s between these points).
Many of the MPs had been fitted with metal-framed windows, so PC simply substituted an upgraded trainset. Problem solved.