don't know why I thought of this now, but I watch NJT/Amtrack trains pass thru Hamilton, NJ at lunchtime, and a LOT of them have the engine in the rear of a 8-10 car unpowered trainset, in a push configuration.
Is there anything inherently unsafe with this set up? Is there a higher risk of derailment, compared to a pull configuration?
Sorry for my naivety, but just wondering...
Posted by irish1 (Member # 222) on :
i would say no. but if there is a wreck at a grade crossing or a head on the engineer has alot less protection than riding in a regular locomotive. some routes like the hiawatha {chi-mke} have a locomotive shell on one end to give the engineer a little more protection. some even have a baggage compartment where the diesel motor used to be.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Click on "View this PDF" to read a report by the FRA which basically says there isn't any significant risk to a well designed train being pushed instead of pulled. There are cases where being pushed is better than being pulled, and equally vice versa.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
You are probably in less danger sitting behind the engineer in the cab car of a train in push mode tnan you would be walking to your car in a shopping center parking lot.
The chance of actually having an accident would be no greater pushing than pulling. The only issue would be severity. Train to train accidents in the US are so rare as to be statistically insignificant. Grade crossing collisions are another matter, but for the usual with an automobile or small truck the difference would also be relatively small. It is only when you get to larger trucks carrying very solid loads (like the recent collision in Slidell, LA) or flammables that push is likely to put you in a worse situation than pull. Again, these are very rare. You should not be making major modifications in your life due to "the sky is falling" possibilities.
Some of the things done in the world of safety precautions are dealing with events have miniscule frequencies, but that is the way things are in the public transport world.
On the other hand you are hearing this from a guy that likes to sit in one of the front seats behind the operating cab on the San Joaquin trains running down the Valley in California. Hint: This is a single track line with lots of trains both freight and passenger with 79 mph passenger 60 mph freight speed limits. You will see the front end of quite a few trains in a 200 mile run down the valley.
Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
The phrase "accident-prone" applies to the operator of a vehicle rather than the vehicle itself. If I were "accident-prone", I'd be no safer behind the wheel of an old Chrysler Newport than behind the wheel of a Toyota Echo.
Push-pull trains in push mode are as safe as those that always have the locomotive on the head end, and multiple-unit trains with the engine (or electric motor) contained in the passenger car are as safe as either of those.
Posted by 20th Century (Member # 2196) on :
Those Amtrak trains you watched speed by at the Hamilton, NJ station are the Keystone Service trains between NY Penn / Harrisburg, PA. I'm not sure if those trains have engines switched to the front when pulling out of Philadelphia's 30th St. Station. If anyone knows please "chime in". But I often thought about that safety issue when there is a cab controlled car leading the train.I prefer to have the engine in front for appearance sake alone. But $$$ dictates otherwise.
Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
quote:Originally posted by 20th Century: Those Amtrak trains you watched speed by at the Hamilton, NJ station are the Keystone Service trains between NY Penn / Harrisburg, PA. I'm not sure if those trains have engines switched to the front when pulling out of Philadelphia's 30th St. Station. If anyone knows please "chime in". But I often thought about that safety issue when there is a cab controlled car leading the train.I prefer to have the engine in front for appearance sake alone. But $$$ dictates otherwise.
The push-pull configuration was done with the intent of making engine switches unnecessary, especially when operating into Philadelphia's 30th Street Station.
As far as trains that used to run between New York and Harrisburg PA, one of the predecessors of the current Keystone trains were the Metroliner MUs, which were converted into today's cab cars. If having no locomotive on the front of the train troubles one, how would one feel with no unit locomotive at all?
