There are reports at another site (consider the source) that lengthened Wolverine schedules are being prepared - possibly as long as 7hrs CHI-PNT (up from present 6'30"). The site further reports that there could be a reduction to "two a day" as a 350-PNT-355 same day turn will no longer be possible. Of interest, NYC June 1954 "Thousand and One" (System timetable) shows "Twilight Limited" running Chi-Det 5 hours flat. On-Board amenities? "you want it, you got it".
The Michigan Central is simply a redundant freight route so far as Norfolk Southern is concerned. It appears that Kellogg's at Battle Creek is largely served by the "Funk" (CN); What business the NS has from them apparently can be handled by trains moving at 25mph from Detroit.
While NS, and any other road serving Detroit, of course wants to have access to auto industry traffic there, the NS routing is through Toledo (so is CP who has trackage rights over NS). Any automaking facility there is accessed through Conrail Shared Assets which means any road serving Detroit can enjoy line hauls from those facilities.
NS is attempting to sell the MC East of KZoo (Amtrak already owns it West to Porter and has FRA Class 5 track - 90mph) to whatever public agency they can dump it upon. Needless to say, any such talks are moving at "lightning' speed. No doubt the imposition of numerous 25mph slow orders is a "ploy' to "expedite' the matter.
Next season, I want again to go to Detroit to hear the Detroit Symphony perform. Even if trying to "Put on the happy face" this world class ensemble needs all the help they can get (how can an orchestra accustomed to drawing from a population base of 2M expect to "make book' from one of 750K?) and deserves a role other than playing back-up for Yanni. However, I think for that journey, the Bridgestones will be meeting I-94 for some 4.5hrs.
As far as I'm concerned, time for the Adios drumhead affixed to the trailing P-42; this no longer can be considered "Corridor' service. It's simply another Hoosier State - minus any role in handling deadhead equipment between the largest Amtrak backshop, and the System's largest off-Corridor maintenance facility.
Here is a pertinent Service Alert now at the website, and certainly provides foundation to the noted reports.
disclaimer: author holds long position NSC
Posted by amtrak92 (Member # 14343) on :
I can tell you which railroad has interest in the line. The Adrian&Blissfield Railroad. My source is from a railroad employee on the A&B and his source is the President of the line. I can also say that NS wants out of it. But that is all I can say of the matter
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Money talks. Talk walks.
That's all I will say on that.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
While this linked map could be more helpful if it did not abruptly stop at the State line, it still could be in our discussion of this matter:
Regarding Mr. Amtrak92's immediate message, let it be noted that the Adrian & Blissfield, a 20 mile Class III short line, does not have a physical connection with the Michigan Central.
Posted by amtrak92 (Member # 14343) on :
They just bought a new line, the Jackson and Lansing. Which has a direct connection. Plus they just bought a handful of new locomotives for the new line. The line they bought the reporting mark my friend always quotes is JAIL. From what I have heard from that insider, is they are willing to purchase the whole line. I'll stay in touch on that.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Interesting to learn, Amtrak 92; here is a news release regarding the noted acquisition:
I love that map Mr. Norman. Do any other states do that?
Posted by amtrak92 (Member # 14343) on :
See GBN I was right on that one. The owner of it has one office car, that my friend happens to be the attendant on, so I have a direct line of communication open.
Tomorrow it may very will be the world.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: I love that map Mr. Norman. Do any other states do that?
Adrian & Blissfield is very anti railfan so I hope they don't get hold of this line. They are paranoid and would probably try to prosecute anyone who looks like a railfan.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
If "powers that be" determine that Chicago Detroit remains a viable "corridor', even considering that during the Amtrak era, the population base of its East End has decreased from some 2M to 750K, a public agency will have to become the owner of the Michigan Central KZoo-Det.
While I shall not dispute the intent of the Adrian and Blissfield management, it appears that the MC has become so deteriorated East of KZoo, the only way it will again become a viable passenger line is with public funds, for even if properly remunerated with user fees by Amtrak or other public agency for handling passenger trains viable in the market they serve, I doubt if the A&B has adequate standing in the private capital markets to command the necessary investment.
If improvements to the MC are not forthcoming, then possibly Amtrak should consider making Battle Creek into a "Bakersfield" operating no trains East of there over the MC, and providing feeder buses to an array of destinations to the East - one of which would be Detroit.
From my Easter Weekend journey, no question whatever there was strong passenger loadings. Most of the passengers appeared to be young, but by no means "disadvantaged". While on one hand young passengers would represent a pool of future riders, it on the other hand, if the service is no way competitive, represents a pool that will be gone as soon as opportunity allows, i.e. resources to allow owning a roadworthy auto (as distinct from one good for a trip from home to Wally World and return and with friends around to "come pick up up; Nellie Bell broke down") or to afford no-longer-cheap air travel.
Next season, I have every intention of another trip to Detroit to hear the DSO perform, but somehow I think that trip will be auto - as I do own a perfectly roadworthy one of those.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Would seem to be an excellent time to do for the Kalamazoo to Detroit section what has been done for Kalamazoo west. To not do so destroys much of the benefit that was gained from the Kalamazoo to the west speed up.
It would be an excellent opportunity to see what upgrading an existing alignment to a 110 mph maximum would do for us.
It would also seem that to have placed here the 140 track miles of new rail being laid on the ex Central Vermont would be a much better use of the money.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From this Michigan DOT link, it would appear that Products of Agriculture, i.e. grains to Battle Creek to feed Tony The Tiger, are not what Michigan railroading is all about. Obviously it is all about handling Amtrak's "competitor":
September TRAINS has a report regarding the deterioration of the Wolverine service. I continue to hold that the best option for Amtrak is to annul all Wolverine trains East of Battle Creek and provide connecting bus transportation onward, as the existing on-time performance is quite simply "unacceptable'. A review of Train Status shows August 5 Wolverines arriving Detroit not less than 1'30" late - and this is on top of a 5'30" schedule from CHI over a route that can be driven adhering to posted speeds in about 5hrs.
The report notes that negotiations are moving forth for the NS to sell what to them is a secondary line (their traffic moves South from Detroit to Toledo thence handled on the ex-NYC East or West as need be) to a public agency. If Michigan is sincere about the promotion of rail passenger service, then there is simply no alternative as the "Feddytrough" is already doing its part by providing three a day without any Local assistance. Of interest, TRAINS further reports that the "same degree of utility' provisions of RPSA '70 and the May 1, 1971 Agreement 'sunset-ted' during 1996 and were not part of the ARAA '97 legislation. Had such provisions been in place and enforceable, NS would be in violation allowing the line to deteriorate to the extent it evidently has.
During this upcoming season, I'd like to attend another DSO concert, but be it assured I'll be getting there by auto or air. The ride last April was simply "torturous' - and that was before many of the speed restrictions now in place were imposed.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Perhaps Amtrak should go the way the freight does and serve Detroit via Toledo.
Yes.... I know there are a multitude of reasons why this will not happen........ but it's fun to imagine being a fly on the wall should Amtrak pose that notion to NS.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
It appears that there could possibly be "light at the end of the tunnel". The press release, mainly addressing a new Transportation Center at Pontiac, also notes that the slow orders will be addressed and that track speed will be back to 60 mph by mid-September:
State Transportation Director Kirk T. Steudle "announced that a $4.2 million maintenance agreement with Norfolk Southern Railway would begin soon and improvements completed by mid-September. The work to be done by Norfolk Southern includes replacing ties, smoothing the track, and improving grade crossings on a 135-mile section between Ypsilanti and Kalamazoo. Train speeds of 60 mph will be restored on this segment, in preparation for even higher speeds in years to follow."
However, the underlying issue remains that here is a line over which (from my observations) a well-patronized 'three a day' service operates but for which the line's owner, Norfolk Southern, finds redundant for its own operations. The line should be transfered to a public agency, but of course any Local agency is 'broke'.
Obviously, I for one would rather not transfer to a bus - even if perfectly coordinated with a train's schedule, and am pleased to learn that, notwithstanding the sale of the Michigan Central line to a public agency, necessary improvements are being made to enable trains to 'be in the ballpark' with highway transport.
Who knows, maybe the planned trip sometime during the upcoming season to hear the DSO perform will be made by the Wolverine.
disclaimer: author holds long position NSC
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Well, looks like it is time to get this topic out of the deep freeze again.
As likely most here are aware, the Michigan DOT is closing on a purchase of the Michigan Central Kalamazoo-Detroit from NS. All the "great plans" are in place "high speed rail" "new cars' etc - and there is even a chance some will come to pass.
But, like in Beethoven's Sixth Symphony (Pastoral), there is the tumultuous Allegro Fourth Movement to get through before the serene Allegretto Fifth Movement. Again, the line is confronted with slow orders which will add some 90min to a train's schedule. Since a same day turn of crews and equipment from #350 to 355 would not be possible, Amtrak has annulled these trains East of Dearborn; Detroit now only has "two a day".
Now with regards to this latest episode of "As The Michigan Central Turns", enquiring mind wants to know:
1) Is the sale of the line East of K'Zoo still pending, or has it been "snagged' beyond any reasonably expected in a transaction of this nature and scope?
2) Wasn't there an inspection made immediately prior to the parties "shaking hands", i.e. an agreement in principle was in place, and weren't "same degree of utility" provisions negotiated, i.e. the selling party wasn't going to let the line "go to pot' while the transaction closed?
3) Now I know I'm hardly as enthusiastic as are some around here, but I have had a lot of experience over the years riding trains on three continents. I think I'd know bad track when I "felt" it, and from my rides on 352(9) and 353(10) on the "eve" of the announced slow orders, I felt none and that both trains moved along at track speed (only exception, a slow order West of New Buffalo on Amtrak's own 110mph line). They both lost time "over the road", but that appeared to be from heavy passenger loadings and that only two traps were open (as should have been the case) at any station.
4) How could the selling party's interest be enhanced by letting the line "go to pot" with a pending deal on the table?
5) How could the Buyer's interests be enhanced from same, did the buyer not have budget for maintenance or did they expect to "go and sob" to the Michigan Legislature for such? If that the case, shame on them; their competency must be questioned (you know the "competent parties' doctrine of any contract).
All told, it appears that somebody dropped the ball on what appears to be a positive development to enhance rail passenger service in a strong Midwest Corridor market. Somehow, I think somebody will be standing before Judge Judy by the time this one plays out.
Finally, I have an upcoming trip to Detroit April 20 and 21 for a Detroit Symphony concert; I'll be looking down at the Wolverine from a "flightseeing" seat (way aft window) on a GoJet (United) Bombardier RJ. As soon as I learned of the 90 minute delay from the speed restrictions, I rang up the United site and booked the KORD-KDTW-KORD flights. 350 (20) would have been the train I would have used for the Eastward trip - and as noted, that has been annulled East of Dearborn.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Look what Amtrak's response is to essentially the 0% On Time Performance presently provided by the Wolvering trains - lengthen the schedules:
I have received both e-mail and telephone notification of the change affecting my upcoming CHI-350(27)-ARB journey. For the telephone, I wish Amtrak could have something other than "Toll Free Call" showing up on the Caller ID. All too many solicitors use that identity. I realize that for cell phone users who are charged for both calls received and made, knowing it is a toll free is an enticement to answer, but couldn't Amtrak use an identity line such as "Amtrak Toll Free"?
It would be nice as I simply hang up on such calls or if I answer, I'm "not so nice".
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
These schedules seem to have been tightened a little west of Kalamazoo (or is that just my wishful thinking) and lengthened east of there.
Where do things stand currently with the Michigan DOT's purchase of the line east of Kalamazoo?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I think, Mr. Presley, we are addressing a case of "it takes time". Nothing has come to my attention suggesting that the deal fell apart.
However, the next issue to be addressed once the transaction closes is where will "broke" Michigan get funding to bring the line up to the standards needed to operate H/er/SR. Even if Obama should be re-elected, I highly doubt if there will be an ARRA13 (Stimulus II; whatever) enacted.
But I'm certain that even with the poor OTP Wolverines have exhibited of late, the trains I'll ride next week on my upcoming journey will be "quite full'. For it would appear that Amtrak fares are "same as gas' (save having some "circus clown" auto) - let alone any of the additional variable costs of operating an auto.
My reasons to use Amtrak, even though it will take considerably more time, are first what has appeared to be limited parking at the hotel I stay at in Ann Arbor and, secondly, apprehensions about driving in Downtown Detroit (no traffic to speak of, but wrong turns and getting lost, even with Sat/Nav, there is quite easy).
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
GBN - Out of curiousity, on these symphony trips, what do you do for local transit between Detroit and Ann Arbor?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
ARB-350(28)-DET - in Coach!!!!!
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
On my recent trip, the W-bound Blue Water was on tme at most stops and arrived in Chicago early, and kept up to track speed even west of Kalamazoo.
However, my final return segment on the 7:20 Wolverine did arrive in Battle Creek 1/2 hour behind schedule.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
My planned and ticketed CHI-350(27)-ARB-350(28)DET-353(29)-CHI is cancelled owing to the Chicago Symphony strike (I was going to Ann Arbor for the CSO; you don't get Muti at Orchestra Hall unless you subscribe or take your chances on a rafters seat or hope for a turnback - neither acceptable to me). Instead I'm off by auto for a Thursday Cleveland Orchestra concert then to the planned Detroit Symphony on Friday.
Amtrak agreed to refund the whole ticket - including Business Class charges, but then, I won't really know until I see that American Express has recorded the credit.
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