Amtrak Status Maps of the East Coast will be interesting in the next couple of days. Already, at 7:45 Eastern time, the Northeast is almost deserted.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
The next train New York to Wash showing as available is 151(31), which would leave NYP 440A.
Everything "Sold out" till then.
I'm at a loss to understand what is so wrong with the word "cancelled'. To an airline oriented world, that speaks. In this litigous world, no commercial passenger transport operator will speak of "center to center all weather service" or "your trip is weather proof" - actual tag lines of the New Haven and Lackawanna.
Regarding "sold out", at least Amtrak leaves some "trail" that there actually is that particular train in the schedule. Airline web sites have a way of obliterating a sold out flight; same for at least one major brand hotel chain's site (Marriott) that I have occasion to frequent.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Another way to watch the hurricane in (almost) real time is to go to Wind Maps. If you enlarge the map on the NY-Washington area and hover your cursor over the shoreline, you can see the wind speeds there. Right now (8:08 EDT) the shore wind speeds in the area are pushing 40 mph..
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
GBN, Ain't nothing moving here in CT. No planes, trains, buses and in a couple of hours from now the Interstate highways are being closed (except for emergency vehicles). Dee
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Somebody at another rail site posted a picture of a concourse (maybe the LIRR?) at NYP taken after 7:00 last night. TOTALLY DESERTED!
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Am I the only one wondering how a Cat 1 storm can gather so much media attention and panic?
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
Mike,
This is in reality a Hurricane wrapped into a Nor'Easter. It is the expected Storm surge that will come around midnite tonight that is the real danger.
1938 was last time a similar storm in New England.
It is the potential for loss of life, loss of property and probable loss of power that causes the media attention etc.
Having gone through this exactly a year ago (10 days without electricity in a rural area without city water or city sewers),I can assure you it is not a fun experience.
Dee
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Not a typical Cat 1 hurricane: -Four feet of snow is possible in parts of West Virginia!
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
And I just fell for a prank on Facebook! I'm usually very good at sniffing these things out, but there is a picture going around the internet right now of a huge wave hitting Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty. Turns out it's from the disaster movie, "The Day After Tomorrow". Whoops!
Posted by dilly (Member # 1427) on :
Here in New York City, there's not much happening apart from strong gusts and light drizzle. Only those who live in a handful of low-lying areas next to the water (such as Coney Island and Battery Park City) are getting flooded out. But that comes with the territory. Everyone else is high and relatively dry.
Predictably, however, the over-caffeinated TV weather reporters ("Team Coverage!") are making it sound like the End of Civilization for every living soul in the entire eastern United States. Which probably explains why my local supermarket is still well-stocked with everything imaginable -- but completely out of toilet paper!
Most of the wind damage (fallen trees, power outages, flying patio furniture) is in the suburbs and beyond. Not much fun for people living in those areas, I'm sure -- although, even then, it depends on where you live. Some will sustain heavy damage. The vast majority will get through things just fine.
Nevertheless, the TV news is (as always) working overtime to pump the ratings with their doomsday coverage. After watching (for the tenth time) the same video clip of the same reporter dramatically saying very little about the same overturned playground slide, I've finally tuned it out.
------------------------
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Dilly, my Sister who resides on Long Island Sound in Riverside, CT, also is of the same "overblown" thought that you hold. Here I am watching Weather Channel, where the norm seems to be reporting the weather as if it were a sporting event (and for that matter CNBC with the stock market), and phoning her up (surprised they worked) saying haven't you bailed yet?
"We're sticking it out". "I know I'd be on the phone to Hyatt to see if a room is open, if not them somewhere else', "what would pooch think of that?', "oh". Apparently, Town of Greenwich has some kind of "robo-call" system telling people in what they think are flood zones to bail out. While she told me the wetlands on her "spread" were flooded over, the house some 30ft ASL was quite intact and as of 4PM yesterday, they still had the juice.
My Niece and two Nephews, who all live in various parts of Brooklyn (DUMBO, Park Slope, Red Hook) had also reported in and said all was "passable OK".
However, let it be noted that "we from the Northeast" do know adverse weather beyond a NorEaster. On August 31, 1954, I was aboard a 36ft sail boat moored in Stonington CT (TWC had a reporter there this go around) when Cat 3 Carol came a callin'. The mooring held, but a lot of flotsam floating about and several boats were beached atop the New Haven (now Amtrak NEC).
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Apparently, Town of Greenwich has some kind of "robo-call" system telling people in what they think are flood zones to bail out.
It's probably a system made by Teleminder or similar. I was in charge of setting up my city's telephone notification system. It's a neat gadget. It's PC-based, and it gives you the ability to instantly record a verbal message OR type in words and have the computer speak them (we preferred to have a human voice). Then you can isolate areas down to specific streets, or even specific addresses. Of course you can do the entire city if need be as well. You just give the system a few commands, and it will begin making numerous calls at once to the area selected by the user. It even calls unlisted/unpublished numbers, however, it does not call cellular phones.
Posted by dilly (Member # 1427) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: However, let it be noted that "we from the Northeast" do know adverse weather beyond a NorEaster.
Very true. And like you, Mr. Norman, I've spoken with friends and relatives scattered throughout New York City's five boroughs during the past twelve hours. Strangely, no one has experienced the Doomsday Armageddon that -- according the news media -- has "brought the entire city to its knees." Some streets are messy. Some basements and ground floor interiors are waterlogged. But the Japanese earthquake/tsunami it ain't.
True, the subway system, commuter rail, and Amtrak aren't running. But that's happened numerous times over the years due to rainstorm flooding, blizzards, power blackouts, equipment malfunction, and labor strikes. Typically, the service is out for days. People can't get to work. It's nothing new.
And true, some neighborhoods are without power. But that happens surprisingly regularly in New York (my neighborhood has lost power twice during the past year). And the number of people affected this time around is a drop in the bucket when compared to the massive blackouts that darkened the entire eastern United States during the 60s, 70s, and as recently as the early 2000s.
As for the flooding, most of the impacted waterfront areas that you're seeing on TV and in the NY Times -- especially in Manhattan and Brooklyn -- are either city parks, industrial sites, stretches of highway, beachfront, or vacant land. Relatively few are densely residential (and those that are are mainly high rise). Most have flooded during previous storms or unusually high tides. Over the past 30 years, on several occasions, I've even put on my high Wellington boots and gone out to wade around.
This time, the water rose higher and stretched a block or two further inland (in some cases flooding the basements of previously dry apartment buildings), but it's nothing totally new. As my brother-in-law says from experience, once you've got three feet of water in your basement, an additional six feet of the stuff doesn't really matter.
That doesn't mean that small oceanfront and riverfront communities on the distant fringes haven't experienced serious damage. Only a fool would own a house in those places without flood and hurricane insurance. Or stay in the house despite warnings to evacuate.
Unfortunately, however, the news media seems more obsessed with the idea that New York City has been flattened by the Apocalypse -- a notion that's totally absurd. Save it for the far more powerful hurricanes that are sure to come.
---------------
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
My son and family in Morristown, NJ report extensive damage in their neighborhood with loss of power throughout. Mostly the result of high winds with some basement flooding. Their town is in the hilly country west of the hard hit tidal areas. No word on when NJT will again operate so getting to work in NY is not an option. They bailed out to relatives in PA.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
For a running broad perspective on the storm's impact.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I can't believe the "after" pictures we are seeing this morning. It is shocking. Those poor people in Queens who lost their entire neighborhood.....And Ocean City, NJ and the boardwalk---wow. I have fond memories of vacationing there as a little boy. Fresh squeezed orange juice, Mack and Manco's Pizza, the famous candy store, the salt water taffy....SO MUCH destruction. Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
I don't believe this storm is one to bluff off as "too much media hype" -- it was a BIG INTENSE storm in a very heavily-popualted area. Yes, I am sure that the inland locales, far from the coast, probably sustained very little damage. And yes, mid-town Manahattan averages about 50 ft in elevation, but the edges of the island, along two major river systems, had severe storm surge, as well as the Jersey shore. And since so much of the transportation system is underground (including AMTRAK), the underground subway flooding did in fact cause serious problems.
But yes, everything will be back to normal in a week or less.
(I'm surprised Gov. Romney hasn't blamed Obama for the hurricane and his "lack of being able to help the people who live along the coast instantly," or some other similar silly claim, and surprised he hasn't made this terrible storm a political issue.......... )
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
P.S. Does AMTRAK store any of their rolling stock/locos at New York Penn Staton? If so, does anyone know if any of the AMTRAK equipment was damaged by the flooding in the tunnels?
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
RRRich asks a good question. Does anyone know the answer? I know the airlines got aircraft out before the storm and are just starting to reposition them and crews today. (United had seven or eight charters today to CLE, EWR and IAD to get cabin and cockpit crew inplace.)
That area of Queens has been hit by tragedy before -- an American Airlines Airbus crashed there shortly after 9/11 and because there is a heavy population of police and firefighters and other first responders living there it lost a disproportionate number of people on 9/11 itself.
I think the most stunning image I've seen so far is the oil tanker aground on Staten Island.
Finally, I didn't think I'd ever see Gov. Christie of N.J. give President Obama such high praise -- especially this close to the election. Maybe there IS still hope for civility.
Frank in foggy and cool SBA
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
There are some good photos of the NJ Transit mess here. Several were taken at Penn Station, especially of an inflatable dike across the approaching tracks that didn't seem to work very well.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Thank you for that link, Henry. Those are the best (worst) pictures I've seen yet. I knew that they got slammed, but I honestly didn't know it was THIS bad. I'm not expert, but in looking at those pictures, that's not something that gets fixed in a week. I am guessing that NJT will be out of service for weeks---easily. Look at the rail head that got covered with salt water---it's all rusty! I don't think that means they have to replace it, does it? They can just run trains over it and the rust will come right off---I think? But all of the switches and electronics are trashed. This is a huge job they've got a head of them. WOW!
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: I don't believe this storm is one to bluff off as "too much media hype" -- it was a BIG INTENSE storm in a very heavily-popualted area. Yes, I am sure that the inland locales, far from the coast, probably sustained very little damage. And yes, mid-town Manahattan averages about 50 ft in elevation, but the edges of the island, along two major river systems, had severe storm surge, as well as the Jersey shore. And since so much of the transportation system is underground (including AMTRAK), the underground subway flooding did in fact cause serious problems.
But yes, everything will be back to normal in a week or less.
(I'm surprised Gov. Romney hasn't blamed Obama for the hurricane and his "lack of being able to help the people who live along the coast instantly," or some other similar silly claim, and surprised he hasn't made this terrible storm a political issue.......... )
Actually, "Brownie" (as in heckuva job), said FEMA is reacting too FAST. While Romney calls for FEMA to be broken up among the States and privatized. When some reporters question him on it, he doesn't answer. That's leadership we can count on! Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by smitty195: Thank you for that link, Henry. Those are the best (worst) pictures I've seen yet. I knew that they got slammed, but I honestly didn't know it was THIS bad. I'm not expert, but in looking at those pictures, that's not something that gets fixed in a week. I am guessing that NJT will be out of service for weeks---easily. Look at the rail head that got covered with salt water---it's all rusty! I don't think that means they have to replace it, does it? They can just run trains over it and the rust will come right off---I think? But all of the switches and electronics are trashed. This is a huge job they've got a head of them. WOW!
Rusty rails aren't a problem. They go rusty overnight in the UK and, as you say, the next train over will just knock it right off. Sometimes there is a problem with light vehicles not giving enough contact to operate the track circuits but light weight is rarely a problem in the US.
While the electronics could well be fubar, they can at least run a rudimentary service for a while. Again, referring to the UK here, practice would be to clip and scotch the points in one particular position, usually the "normal" position, but whatever suits the layout. For example, if you had two tracks coming in from Newark, two going out to Connecticut, then you end up with two usable platforms at Penn Station - it's plain lined all the way from the Hudson to the East River. Obviously the capacity is severely limited in that situation - but gets you at least a basic through service. For example, your regular service could run from Newark southwards, with a shuttle service that simply runs from somewhere convenient north/east of NY Penn station, through NY Penn station, and out to Newark, and back again. A modified block working can be used with whatever signals are left working which would again limit capacity.
In the meantime, work can go on to restore key switches and signals so the number of available platforms slowly increases, and likewise the capacity. I'm pretty sure the interlocking there is an electronic variety which is usually far simpler and quicker to replace than a relay interlocking.
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
"But yes, everything will be back to normal in a week or less."
This is no one week job to fix it all !! While life will soon resume with regular daily activities, it will be a long time for "normal". In some cases even "normal" will have to be redefined.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
In answer to a question posed above regarding Amtrak storage of equipment, I believe the main area for that would be Sunnyside Yard, located on the Queens side of the East River tunnels and, presumably, not flooded.
The Long Island Rail Road, on the other hand, suffered extensive damage at its Long Island City location further west of Sunnyside, and its West Side Yard located between NYP and the Hudson River tunnels.
Posted by ColdRain&Snow (Member # 15381) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jerome Nicholson:
quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: I don't believe this storm is one to bluff off as "too much media hype" -- it was a BIG INTENSE storm in a very heavily-popualted area. Yes, I am sure that the inland locales, far from the coast, probably sustained very little damage. And yes, mid-town Manahattan averages about 50 ft in elevation, but the edges of the island, along two major river systems, had severe storm surge, as well as the Jersey shore. And since so much of the transportation system is underground (including AMTRAK), the underground subway flooding did in fact cause serious problems.
But yes, everything will be back to normal in a week or less.
(I'm surprised Gov. Romney hasn't blamed Obama for the hurricane and his "lack of being able to help the people who live along the coast instantly," or some other similar silly claim, and surprised he hasn't made this terrible storm a political issue.......... )
Actually, "Brownie" (as in heckuva job), said FEMA is reacting too FAST. While Romney calls for FEMA to be broken up among the States and privatized. When some reporters question him on it, he doesn't answer. That's leadership we can count on!
Oh come on now, don't you think you're being a bit rough on Brownie? You act as though being a commissioner for an Arabian horse association doesn't eminently qualify one to be the highest ranking emergency management professional in the United States. Get with the program, man!
Helluva guy. Hackuva job.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
RRRich, the media did over-hype the storm. It was supposed to be the worst storm in NY's recorded history. Whoops... missed it by a bunch...
As an FYI, I have been through Carla, Elisha, and Ike, along with countless cat 1 and tropical storms. I have a little experience with these types of storms, living in a 4+ million person county.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
And FEMA did a much better job than the Mayor and Governor of New Orleans did. People tend to forget that, while buying into the media myth about FEMA.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Now let us discuss climate change and its effect on the storm. We shall, of course, do this maturely and civilly, without belligerence or aggressive ignorance, and with respect for opposing opinions. Won't we?
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
It is interesting to see how Sandy has blown away the intense media coverage of the presidential campaign. I'm sure this weekend will be a whirlwind for the candidates, but it has been nice to have a quiet period to reflect on the campaign without having the constant media bombardment of trivial details about "a new poll in Iowa" or "the latest unemployment numbers in Florida".
Posted by Judy McFarland (Member # 4435) on :
Dream on, Henry!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
At this time, and as I noted over at Open Discussion Forum, I don't foresee any reason to stay up beyond my normal bed hour of 9PM. The only exception would be is if some friends (solid Democrat; always vote a straight ticket; originally from the City: now Suburban Northern Cook) come over that evening - and I doubt if we would watch Returns.
All told, nothing will have been decided; possibly by morning, we will have some idea of how many challenges there will be.
Again we should note that Ohio does not even start to count votes that were cast away from polling places until Nov 17. I cannot accept the prediction made by two members, both with the same surname, that the plurality will be much wider than expected and bordering on "landslide" (2:1).
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Judy, you are SO cynical. (wink)
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I concur, GBN. Obamney will be so close that we'll be unlikely to see white smoke from the chimney before morning, and probably not even then. So I'll hit the sack at my usual early hour without watching the returns.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I agree with Henry and GBN about the election results -- no "landslide" is in store this time, I'm afraid............ I too am surprised that the 2 candidates are apparently this close together in the polls less than a week from the election.
I'll probably watch the returns on TV Tuesday evening, since I have nothing better to do.
I'll just be relieved Wednesday morning when there are NO MORE ANNOYING TV POLITICAL COMMERCIALS!!!
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
I'll be glad when threads don't get derailed by off-topic politics.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
This one wasn't derailed. It was obliterated, in the always entertaining RailForum fashion.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
We finally heard from our Australian cruise friends who had arrived in NYC two days before Sandy. They were doing fine until that crane started dangling. Their hotel was in the evacuation area and they were bounced around from a school to a shelter to a hotel up in Harlem. Through efforts of the Australian Consulate they were allowed back into the hotel to retrieve their stuff.
They are now in a different hotel trying to see as much as they can of the city and they will fly home via LAX and SYD to Adelaide on Sunday.
They are, as most Australian are, resilient, happy folks so they are looking on this as a big adventure.
Frank in cloudy and cool SBA
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
Obviously there's no threat to the main NE Corridor but given what happened to the Sunset east of NOL after Katrina could Amtrak be eyeing up the possibility of doing a repeat on any of the lesser used routes in the area?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
In deference to Mr. Mayo's request (ain't you glad you don't vote over here, can sit back and laugh at the nonsense, and be thankful your pols back home don't go through all this malarkey to get elected?) on the preceding page, the linked Bulletin would suggest that, while hardly "back to normal" that operations have resumed the length of the NEC:
As of a few moments ago, a random check of #94(2) an "LD" NPN-BOS Regional shows that such is estimated BAL 22ML, yet NYP 5ML, and BOS OT. Actual? tune in later.
Empire Corridor remains "out"; 48-49, Lake Shore, are annulled, but 448-449 will operate BOS-CHI. Conceivably, passengers originating NYP could connect at SPG. On that point, one must wonder if the existing 448-449 consist of one Sleeper and a Cafe have been expanded to include cars temporarily released from 48-49
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: As of a few moments ago, a random check of #94(2) an "LD" NPN-BOS Regional shows that such is estimated BAL 22ML, yet NYP 5ML, and BOS OT. Actual? tune in later.
It's departed Newark, NJ 26 late and predicted NYP 24 late. I guess that means at least some trains are running through NYP.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geoff Mayo: It's departed Newark, NJ 26 late and predicted NYP 24 late. I guess that means at least some trains are running through NYP.
It departed 16 late, so I guess things are going... swimmingly?... at NYP. It was scheduled to sit there for a while though, hence the ability to make up 8 minutes.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
94(2) ar BOS 10ME
While by no means does the on time performance yesterday of one train, selected on the strength that it was going the extreme length of the Corridor (NPN-BOS), mean Corridor operations are "back to normal", it does mean that there is hope restoration is not too far off.
Marathon? sob sob; only question; why wasn't it CXLD Tuesday morning?
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
GBN,
Why not cancelled on Tuesday? $$$$$$$$. I am sure the NYC Chamber of Commerce (or it's equivalent) was leaning heavily on all involved to proceed with the Marathon.
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