I'm Karen and am planning, next Summer, to travel from New York to San Francisco, up to Vancouver and back to Toronto.
I'm really looking for some advice on these trips? I'll be travelling with a just 5Yo boy and 3YO girl.
I have a plan (I'd say 2/3s sorted) but would love to talk to people who are used to proper long haul travel! (I'm from the UK and while we've travelled extensively by train in the UK and Europe... it's not really the same order of magnitude!!)
I should add that my son is train obsessed so long periods (2-3 days) on trains isn't that big a deal for us and I'll always ensure I have a private sleeper for security.
Would love to talk to anyone who's done this / considered it!
Karen
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Welcome to this forum. We all will be happy to help, offer advice, and in general enjoy the trip along with you.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Welcome to the forum.
The best advice would be to build lag time at your connecting points (ie: overnight layovers) if you are able to.
Sometimes things don't go as planned and your train will arrive hours late. It's usually not a good idea to have a connection to another train scheduled on the same day and nothing ruins the best part of train travel if you must always be worried about making your connection.
There will be other suggestions to make (and people here happy to make them) as your trip draws nearer and you begin to think about the specifics.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Since your children are 3 and 5 years old, it would be a good idea to bring along some things for them to do when they get bored looking out the window: coloring books, crayons, DVD player and suitable disks, etc.
I echo David's suggestion to build in layover time. Terminal stations like Chicago and Emeryville and enroute stations such as Glenwood Springs, Colorado, on the route of the California Zephyr are excellent for this. Good way to catch up on sleep, too; not everyone gets sufficient rest even in a sleeping car.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
If there is one segment you should really spend in the sightseer lounge, it is the climb up the Rockies from Denver. But in the summer it fills up quickly, so it is best to get seats well before the train leaves Denver. You just do not see the full panorama from a bedroom window. The kids will enjoy seeing the tracks wind back and forth up the Front Range, and the 28 tunnels afterwards.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Welcome to the forum! Sounds like a great itinerary. As the time gets closer, we can give you specific advice. As David says above, you may want to schedule in an overnight layover somewhere -- a good place to do that would be the S.F. Bay area. The California Zephyr does not go into downtown San Franciso, but stops across the Bay in Emeryville. You could connect to the N-bound Coast Starlight either there or in Sacramento, but the Starlight passes through these areas rather late at night, and after already spending 3 nights on the train, you may want a break at that point. If you spent the night in the Bay area, you could do some sightseeing the following day after you arrive, and be ready to catch the late-evening N-bound Starlight then.
Seattle would be another good place to make the overnight layover. You would then take a N-bound Cascade train to Vancouver the next day and catch VIA Rail Canada's Canadian across the country to Toronto. The Canadian now leaves Vancouver later in the evening than it used to.
I believe 99.9% of the people on this forum will agree that you should DEFINITELY travel in sleeper accomodations on all overnight trains!!!!!
As I said, we can give you more advice later.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
There are those on this forum who will warn you that if you do not travel in sleeper you do not deserve to live.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
First, welcome to our forum. Possibly you have noted there are several other Subjects here as well (Mr. Mayo, although presently residing in California, is a British Subject).
While I'm hardly about to say one is not fit to live, my thought is don't even THINK about this rail journey unless you are prepared to do so in Sleeper. It is expensive, but the only way.
While traveling in Coach, one will find "colorful characters" usually carrying all their belongings in a backpack and often look like they've "been on the road". They are of course harmless, and maybe there is a journalist or two that want to meet those folk "up close and personal" (author Paul Theroux comes to mind), but I don't. I want my privacy when I travel by rail (which is really no longer any hobby of mine), and is a reason I enjoy auto travel. With auto travel, I like that feeling of "for I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul" expressed in William Ernest Henley's "Invictus".
Coach is in my opinion, nowhere a Middle Class family wants to be.
If Sleeper booked in advance (forget on train "upgrades") is simply not in the cards, do like any of my neighbors in my admittedly affluent Chicago suburb do for vacations - fly and learn why the term "flyover country" is prevalent beyond our election cycles.
Yes, I realize the flight experience over here on any domestic (what you call internal) air carrier is down there with your RyanAir or EasyJet, at least you have the comforting knowledge that it is "no fun, but in six hours or so, over and done".
Finally, even if you choose to make your rail journey by Sleeper, still be prepared for an adventure and expect the unexpected. Those whose travel motto is "the best surprise is no surprise" should avoid Long Distance rail travel (for myself, a one night journey once or twice a year is enough). But all told, I do consider my Amtrak journeys have "more positives than negatives".
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Wow, that's a lot of travelling with kids so young. I was nervous just taking my 4yo and his 4yo cousin for a 2 hour joyride a few months ago. Though coach is nowhere near as bad as some people make it out to be, it's not something I would do with young kids, so I'm glad you're going for the sleeper. Are you getting the Family room? If it's just the three of you then a Deluxe would probably work, though an Economy - even with little kids - would be very tight.
Definitely agree with the layovers. Much as I love travelling by train, and have even done circular east-west-east coast trips before, I doubt I would do it again as it is tiring. I would suggest cutting back to NY-San Francisco with a stop in Chicago (at least one very kid-friendly museum there but I forget the name - Mr. Norman?) and maybe in Glenwood Springs as Henry says. The latter has an open air hot springs pool and there are other things around town to occupy the kids.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: There are those on this forum who will warn you that if you do not travel in sleeper you do not deserve to live.
Especially when you have kids in tow! Best for their sakes, and everyone eles's, a private room is a must! I believe the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry is what was referred to; all sorts of things children would like. And i'd stop over in San Francisco instead of Sacramento. The kids might love the cable cars and the car barn. You might also take a tour of the Redwood Forest, just across the Golden Gate Bridge.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Thankyou all for your comments. Very helpful.
This one made me laugh!!
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: There are those on this forum who will warn you that if you do not travel in sleeper you do not deserve to live.
I have to admit to falling into this catagory myself!!
So, here's our plan: NY - Washington (Route 2151, Acela Express) Wash - Chicago (Route 49, Capitol Ltd) Chicago - San Fran (Route 5 Californi Zephyr) (I would like a 'layover' somewhere here. Is Glenwood SPrings a good place? I also looked at Granby) San Fran - Portland (Coast Stalight) (I've always wanted to visit Portland.. My first house overlooked a tower called 'Portland' and both my children were born in a hospital called 'Portland' too...) Portland - Vancouver (AMtrak Cascades) Vancouver - Toronto (The Canadian) (Again, I'd like to fit in some stops in Canada, so any advice on where would be appreciated!)
The plan is to spend several days at each 'destination', primarily to actually experience the various cities, but agree - it would be good to remove the stress of a train being late!
We've done several 'long distant' journeys before. We did Lands End to John O'Groats by train last summer, and we've taken the EuroStar to Europe, but I am well aware that the mileage I'm considering here is a different magnitude!
I'm confident that the children will love it, and I'm confident of travelling with them alone (but not in coach!!)
Thanks again for all advice.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Am very open to advice, by the way.
I have never actually BEEN on a train in the US.
I could always fly back from SF... (SF is non negotiable as it is where I went for my honeymoon, and I remember it as such a wonderful place, so definitely want to take the kids there)
I could leave Canada for another year?
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Kacy, that sounds like a workable plan.
Couple of observations: First, American railroad usage is to refer to "trains," not "routes," when identifying trains. I.e., Train 5, the California Zephyr, not Route 5. Second, the Capitol Limited from Washington to Chicago is Train 29, not Train 49.
Glenwood Springs is the layover you want, not Granby. Granby is not much of a town at all, although Amtrak describes it as "the gateway to Rocky Mountain National Park." It hasn't even got a staffed station, just a small shelter for passengers.
Kacy, if you will privately send me your email address I will send you links to several articles I have written about the trains you propose to take.
Yes, you could fly back from San Francisco. But circumnavigating North America by train via Chicago, SF, Vancouver and Toronto is an experience not to be missed. My wife and I did it a few years ago.
By the way, my remark about not being fit to live was a joke, an affectionate dig at our Mr. Norman, who has strong views on the subject of sleepers vs. coaches as well as a huge and valuable breadth of knowledge about the railroad business, having been in it for many years.
In my opinion the best place for a stopover on the Canadian is Jasper, Alta. It's a lovely mountain town, with hotels less than a block from the station, and rental cars are available at the station. You also might want to spend a day or two in Vancouver before taking the Canadian. Your kids will love buzzing around Vancouver Harbor in the little bug-shaped ferries, and there is a splendid science museum on the harbor.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Thanks Henry. That is great advice, especially about the layovers.
Much appreciated!
Sorry - that was my attempt at humour!! I think it's safe to say that my requirement for a sleeper is as much to do with being able to remove my children from public view as it is about comfort!!
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Glenwood Springs is a very good layover choice. It has checked baggage (handled by Amtrak in the baggage car so you don't have to carry it) while Granby does not. Budget and Enterprise Car Rental will pick you up and drop you at Amtrak. There are good lodging options including the Hotel Colorado across from the depot.
The town is scenic with colorful mountain views and riverside walking and biking trails along the Colorado River and Roaring Fork. The kids might enjoy the Hot Springs and water slides. There is a scenic chairlift to ride up to the top of a mountain.
If you want to mingle with the rich and famous, Aspen is an easy scenic 40 mile drive up the Roaring Fork, and if you are an adventurous driver, there is the beautiful winding narrow road up to 12,000 ft Independence Pass, one of the highest in the US.
Granby is more remote and there is not much to the town. You could rent a car and drive to Rocky Mountain National Park from there.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Kacy -- I agree about Glenwood being a good place to stop over on your journey -- it really is a beautiful town, is right on the Colorado River, and the hot springs are right across the river from the AMTRAK station. As stated above, Granby is not much of a town.
The Canadian is a wonderful train too -- it has many more "amenities" than any AMTRAK train, although I personally prefer the AMTRAK bedrooms (rooms for 2 adults or 1 adult + 2 young kids) over the VIA Rail Canada ones. You could spend the whole day in one of the dome cars on the Canadian and get great views of the Canadian Rockies, as well as the Prairielands of central Canada, and the remote lake-covered forested hills of Ontario.
Concerning museums in Chicago, the Science & Industry Museum is a good place to take the kids, but it is quite a ways from Union Station -- I don't know how much the taxi fare would be. When I lay over in Chicago, I usually visit the Field Museum of Natural History, which is quite a bit closer to Union Station, and an easy 7- or 8-minute taxi ride. The kids would enjoy that too, I believe -- the large dinosuar named "Sue" in the main hall is always a hit with the young 'uns!! The kids may also enjoy seeing the Shedd Aquarium, which is also close to Union Station, or you may even want to ride the elevator to the top of the Sears Tower (what's that called now? Willis Tower or something?), which is only a block from Union Station.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: There are good lodging options including the Hotel Colorado across from the depot.
Mr. Twin Star, please allow me to perfect your posting.
The hotel immediately opposite the train station is The Hotel Denver, vice Hotel Colorado. Hotel Denver is an attractively decorated independent property at which, I've never stayed but have had a Lunch in their restaurant. Cross the street, and you are at the station.
While for many here who eat sleep and drink trains, it's where they want to be. But possibly with this ambitious journey you have in mind (thankfully you are only considering Sleeper), to get away from the trains will be a welcome respite. In this case, the Hotel Colorado - obviously the best known hotel in town - and the priciest - is where you would want to be.
disclaimer: during the 25 or so nights I travel during a year, I largely stick to major brand chains (the two exceptions this year; Amtrak Auto Train for one, and a hotel in Ann Arbor the other) - "the best surprise is no surprise".
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
RRRich - Thankyou for your comments. My daughter is animal mad, so I think the natural history museum would be a better bet for us anyway. It is my son who is the train nut, so I think it's only fair that I indulge Imogen a little on the layovers!! I'm also quite keen to do the standard 'tourist' stuff so the Sears tower would be of interest... We just don't have the sort of buildings America has!!
Gilbert - thankyou. Again, for the sake of my sanity and that of my daughter, some time AWAY from trains is going to be much appreciated!! Glenwood Springs looks perfect for a little respite!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
The Hotel Colorado is some one mile to the West of Glenwood Springs. It is visible from the Zephyr, but you would have to know where to look. In short, it is near, but not "on top of" the tracks.
But if, as Mr. Twin Star notes, you want to have a Rocky Mountain layover well away from the trains (and the prevalent means of getting in and out of town is a Gulfstream) , hire (rent in Americanese) an auto and drive "up the river" to Aspen. I haven't been there since 1963 or back when Mom and Dad called the shots. Back then, you could "smell the $$$$", hard to imagine what it is today. To the folk there, "Great Recession, what recession"?
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Kacy, three tidbits of advice:
1. Listen to Henry and Gil.
2. Another possible layover would be Salt Lake City, Utah. You could visit the Salt Lake (Mormon) Tabernacle there; definitely something you won't find in England. Also nearby Park City, if you're into skiing or film.
3. Listen to Henry and Gil.
Posted by Dave Burden (Member # 88) on :
Karen, we did a rail journey with our two kids (9 & 11) that took 3 weeks. Of the first 7 nights, we spent 6 on the train and survived well. Advanced planning in the key and it's good you all have rail experience. The stops you have in DC and Chicago have nearby attractions that can keep you busy if you want to venture out a bit. The Old Post Office Museum is right next to Union Station in DC and the Navy Pier in Chicago is just a short bus ride away.
Plan for delays on any long distance train so you don't end up on a bus between trains. Bring extra clothes in case you get delayed as well. We ended up going 5 nights between laundromats at one point which was a day longer than we had planned.
Dave
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
GBN is right: The Hotel Denver is the place to stay in Glenwood Springs. You get free passes to the pool for one day (or did when I stayed there earlier this year).
One thing not to miss is the big amusement park at the top of the mountain overlooking Glenwood Springs. You get there in a cable car with a spectacular view of everything for miles around. The cable car station is reachable by hourly bus from the main street--just ask the hotel desk clerk where to find it.
Juicy Lucy's Steak House is the best restaurant in Glenwood Springs, but the Hotel Denver restaurant is excellent also, and geared well to children.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
I will concur with the advice offered by our wise and experienced gurus GBN and Henry Kisor -
Glenwood Springs is the wiser stopover point in Colorado.
Jasper is Glenwood's Canadian equivalent. Recognize that by stopping in Jasper you are looking at a two or three night stopover minimum as the Canadian runs only 2 or 3 days a week depending on the time of year.
Also good that you plan to do the Canadian LAST on your itinerary. In terms of how you will be catered to, not even Amtrak's best service can match what you will experience on the Canadian.
One suggestion which has not come up yet - should you want something a little different in the Northwest, you may want to consider the Pacific Coach bus from Vancouver to Victoria, BC. The bus operates to/from the same station in Vancouver as Amtrak and VIA and adds the bonus of a short 90-minute hop on the British Columbia Ferries each way going to/from Vancouver Island. Victoria is a charming small city which might interest you and your children for a couple of nights.... and the ferry ride was an unexpected bonus when my wife and I visited Victoria 6-8 years ago.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Thankyou all for your brilliant advice.
Henry - I have made contact with the travel advisors you recommended, who will be perfect to make sure my plans are OK, especially with the children.
NotElvis - I realise that The Canadian only runs 3 times per week, but was planning long layovers anyway as, given we are coming from the UK, it would be lovely to actually experience the different towns and cities, so this is good with us.
I think, with the help of Henry's blog (which is just brilliant!) we now have an itinerary, so I will be able to start badgering you all on things to do in each layover!
I thought I was being rather precious looking so early, but it appears that booking this far in advance was the sensible option. So again, thankyou.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
Jasper is the place for a stopover on the Canadian's route. Take the Icefields Parkway tour bus operated by Brewster from Jasper to Banff. You will see such spectacular scenery that you will be glad you're not distracted by driving. Stops include at least one beautiful waterfall and then at another stop you will ride a monster vehicle atop a glacier, then get out and walk on it! Afterwards, you and the kids will have fun comparing the American Rockies to the Canadian ones.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Excellent, thankyou Jerome!
So, our itinerary is:
New York Washington Chicago Glenwood springs San Francisco Portland Vancouver Jasper Toronto (Niagara Falls)
Just one thing: I can't drive on the wrong side of the road, so hiring a car isn't a great option. I know that isn't ideal in America, but I don't think I would be comfortable (read: Safe) doing that.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Kacy -- another Field Museum note: if your daughter likes animals, most of the north (?) side of the first floor of the Field Museum is animal exhibits -- they have quite a few excellent "dioramas" showing all kinds of animals from all over the world in their natural settings -- that part of the museum, frankly, is one of my favorite parts of it!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: GBN is right: The Hotel Denver is the place to stay in Glenwood Springs.
I doubt if there is a human being alive that does not appreciate magnanimous comments directed at them; I'm no exception.
Although in the past I have seen Hotel Colorado courtesy vans at the Glenwood Spg station, again I note their property is well to the West of town. If driving on the wrong side of the road is an issue (and I'm not saying it shouldn't be, even if doing so myself in the UK, Jamaica, USVI, and Thailand was not), this means any ideas of going to Aspen are out of the question (unless, like one member here who seems to be AWOL of late, you are willing to ride about on a bus). Therefore if the idea of being in town and checking out the steak house Mr. Kisor notes, without being dependent on taxicabs or hotel courtesy vans, then I think The Hotel Denver is where you would want to be.
Finally, one possible negative at the Hotel Colorado; their management company also manages this place which even over two years later is the worst hotel at which I have stayed. It was so bad I almost aborted the trip, which of course would have proven counterproductive.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
I think Hotel Denver would be great.
However, Henry has kindly put me in touch with a rail holiday organiser who I hope will be able to direct me to the most suitable hotels.
I feel (even moreso as I am travelling with my young children a long way from 'home') that safety must be paramount and, therefore, I feel hiring a car is not something I should contemplate. The idea of driving on the 'other' side of the road (apologies: I appreciate to you, it's not 'wrong'!!!) fills me with dread (and again, I appreciate how odd that must be coming from someone who is happy to travel, over the course of more than a month, around an entire continent with two little kids )
Kacy x
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
The only place I would see as a minor inconvenience in not having a car is Glenwood Springs; however, even there, some of the tourist attractions understand that and will happily pick you up and drop you off. And it's not *that* big of a town.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Bus transportation up to Aspen is only $10 (kids are free or $1) and runs every half hour.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by KacyB: I think Hotel Denver would be great.
However, Henry has kindly put me in touch with a rail holiday organiser who I hope will be able to direct me to the most suitable hotels.
I feel (even moreso as I am travelling with my young children a long way from 'home') that safety must be paramount and, therefore, I feel hiring a car is not something I should contemplate. The idea of driving on the 'other' side of the road (apologies: I appreciate to you, it's not 'wrong'!!!) fills me with dread (and again, I appreciate how odd that must be coming from someone who is happy to travel, over the course of more than a month, around an entire continent with two little kids )
Kacy x
I am on the board of an American (British) Brass Band and some years ago we had a guest soloist/tuba clinician from the UK in for a week. We were prepared to provide a rental auto for the week of his stay but he was understandibly uncomfortable driving on the 'wrong' side. Instead, the board members each took a day and acted as a driver for our guest.
Posted by dilly (Member # 1427) on :
quote:Originally posted by KacyB: I'll be travelling with a just 5Yo boy and 3YO girl.
I don't want to put a damper on your excitement, Karen. But unless you absolutely need to take this trip during the next year, I'd suggest waiting a few years more.
I was barely six months old when I took my first overnight train journey from America's East Coast to the Midwest. It was a trip that my family would ultimately repeat -- at least twice each year -- until I hit my middle teens.
The problem? I remember nothing about the trips I took prior to age seven or so -- despite being a train fanatic like your son, and possibly even more so. The trips I remember clearly didn't occur until after the age of nine or ten.
My point: A first-time, long distance rail trip across the U.S. happens once in a lifetime. A few years from now, your three year-old will remember nothing of your trip, and your five year-old probably won't remember much more.
That's why I suggest waiting until they're old enough to more fully appreciate -- and retain -- what they're seeing and experiencing.
They'll also have more stamina and patience. After all, as I know many members of this forum would agree, extensive long distance rail travel across the U.S. -- even in a sleeper -- can be exhausting and often monotonous for many hours on end.
By waiting until they're a few years older, your kids will have a far better chance of remembering their epic rail adventure forever, rather than as a vague, nearly forgotten blur.
-----------------
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
I think Dilly is probably correct that the kids will not remember much when they are older. But, that doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy it now and then return when they will have more lasting memories. I'm convinced that some of my many early train trips (prior to age 5) did have some unexplained effect on my continuing appreciation of all things related to travel by train, and travel in general.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
quote:Originally posted by notelvis:
[QUOTE]
I am on the board of an American (British) Brass Band
Uh-oh, here we go, way off-topic. One of my favorite British films:
Only a thought: I perhaps would be remiss if I didn't mention the Rocky Mountaineer, which is a privately - owned train that travels the VIA Canadian's original CP route from Vancouver to Banff. It's route is considered more spectacular than the Canadian's current route. It includes spiral tunnels, Kicking Horse Pass, and the Stoney Creek Bridge. Bears and other animals are usually seen along the tracks, and the on board staff will point them out. It only travels in daylight, so passengers are put up in a hotel in the town of Kamloops overnight. There are three classes of service that might suit your budget. You could take it to Banff, ride the Brewster tour bus to Jasper, then take the Canadian from Jasper to Toronto. Or you might opt for their shorter route from Vancouver to the ski town of Whistler and return the same day. This train also offers great scenery and different levels of service. Again, just thought i'd put it out there!
Driving on the wrong side of the road isn't so difficult if you remember that the driver always stays to the center of the road. I often have a moment of hesitation and confusion when I'm trying to pull out from a stop sign, but I just remember to keep myself (the driver) near the center of the road.
Portland, Vancouver and Seattle are good places to visit with kids. All 3 cities have good public transportation systems and there are plenty of hotels and activities near the Amtrak stations in each city.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
I did look at the Rocky Mountaineer. I am not sure why I decided to take The Canadian - I will look through my notes!
Dilly - I appreciate your comments very much. I agree there are certain downsides to taking the trip while they are so young, but IMO, there are some upsides too...
Firstly (and very much most importantly to me).. YOu just never know what the future holds. My mother got cancer when I was 6YO. As it turns out, she is very much alive and well now (and I'm 40!!!) But, I was brought up (and still have) a 'don't put off until tomorrow what you can do today' attitude. And, yes, there is a chance the children will have sketchy memories of it, but I think children 'learn' a lot more than they can recall. I hope I am teaching them to dream they can do stuff, whatever it is they want.. however oddball it might appear.
My son has a form of autism and I cannot begin to describe the amount of times I hear 'You can't do that / He can't do that'. If there is one thing I want to instill in both him and his sister is that, if they want to - as long as it's legal and not hurting anyone else - then yes... they bloody well can!
Thirdly, my children are at an age where they are over the toddler tantrums, they are toilet trained and they can pretty much eat what's on offer without too much to do... but they haven't reached the age of actually expressing too much of an opinion, in that... what I say goes. If I say: We're going to the aquarium in Vancouver, then that's what we will do. And no one is worried that they are going to be away from home for 6 weeks, and they are going to miss XYZ parties or ABC doesn't think it's a cool holiday (although, to be fair, I can't see how anyone couldn't see that this particular holiday is extremely cool!!)
ANd, you know, they'll have the photos and momentos. OK, these may be forced memories I grant you... but they will know that they did it. And they can do it again if they want to. Or they can do something completely different. But they CAN do it :-)
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
I should add: My son's autism means he has an amazing fascination with trains.
For his 4 birthday, he refused a party but asked to take the Sleeper to Fort William to take the Jacobite Express (which we did and the lovely train driver let him stand in the cab!!)
For charity last year, we did Lands End to John O'Groats by train (If any of you are on Facebook, you can check out our page 'Point to point toddle'). So many people told me I couldn't do it with the kids, but we did... and we had the BEST time.
He's so exicted at the mere idea of seeing 'your' trains. I have a feeling that he'll have memories he'll never forget!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Kacy, you and your Son are not alone. I'd dare say that many a trainspotter/rail enthusiast/railfan/foamer has a measurement on the Asperger scale.
Here is an organization that gets my annual support;
Gil, Henry, and others -- I'm confused. Both the Hotel Colorado and the Hotel Denver in Glenwood have been mentioned in this thread of advice for Ms. Kacy. What is the name of the hotel directly across the river from the GSC station, where the hot springs are? Have I missed something?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
It appears I was mistaken with my earlier statement that hotel was to the West of town - "just across the River" would have been more accurate..
The Hotel Denver is also noted on the linked map.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
There actually are two hotels across the river from the station in Glenwood Springs: The Hot Springs Lodge and the Hotel Colorado. The Lodge is part of the hot springs complex and one gets free daily trips to the pool when one stays there. I've stayed there a number of times and liked it fine, but now I prefer the Hotel Denver for its convenience to the rest of town.
Interestingly, TripAdvisor rates the Hotel Denver No. 1 in Glenwood Springs, the Hot Springs Lodge No. 4, and the Hotel Colorado No. 17.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
Kathy, I don't believe you mentioned how much time you intend to spend in each city.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike:
quote:Originally posted by notelvis:
[QUOTE]
I am on the board of an American (British) Brass Band
Uh-oh, here we go, way off-topic. One of my favorite British films:
No bagpipers or ponies in sight (terminology for a thread here about to spin off-topic Kacy) but I will add that our guest soloist was a member of the renowned 'Grimethorpe Colliery Band', the real life brass band which recorded the soundtrack for the movie 'Brassed Off'.
We were also involved performing a live concert and 'mini-lecture' to promote this film's opening when it came to the Carolina Theatre in Durham, NC.
OK - I promise to return to topic..... at least in this thread..... from this point forward.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Kacy:
I see that you say you are taking the sleeper. There are numerous advantages, however, don't let some of those here convince you that coach is unworkable for 2 to 3 days. Look up information on the Superliner coaches and get some idea of the space between seats. There should be plenty of space to sack out your kids on the floor and the seats recline way back so you should be able to sleep fairly well yourself. I did the train coast to coast at the age of 28 with one night in sleeper and enjoyed it immensely. I have also done some overnights in coach much more recently than that, including a couple after passing 40 and lived to tell of it.
Yes, the clientelle in coach can, shall we say, be somewhat odd and unusual at times. However, you can meet some very interesting and helpful people also.
San Francisco is a good city to get around in on public transport. Search San Francisco Muni and you will find all sorts of information on bus routes, schedules, light rail, etc. However, be warned that there are multiple public transit agencies in the San Francisco Bay area, each with their own service territories, routes, web sites, and such. There is also BART, which is the heavy rail, think "Underground" type system which has lines into several of these jurisdictions, and again, its own web site.
I am at this time living in San Francisco. Email me if you would like. If you can't get through or don't get an answer in what seems a reasonable time ask for it in here.
Your 5 year old will remember a lot more than most people would think. Some of the things will be sufficiently unique that the 3 year old will also remember them.
I have some maps and other railroad related infor that I could email you if you are interested.
In Washington, aside from the national monuments, the Smithisonian is well worth time. For me, Air and Space, and the Science and Technology. There is a full size steam engine in one. The DC area is well service with public transit, but best stay in the touristy areas. Some parts you should not enter if you wish to leave alive.
The CZ route ahs some awesome mountain crossings in the daytime.
Prepare to also be surprised by the sheer size of American freight trains. You can be sitting on the upper level in the Superliners and still be looking up at the top of the containers and other high cars. Trains upwards of a mile long are the norm.
The ride quality of the track will probably be somewhat more exciting that you would be used to in Europe. Don't let anybody get you concerned about safety, however. Comfort is well inside safety.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I am very glad you came along to this forum, Kacy. Of late we had fallen into some fairly heated political wrangling, this being an election year, and on one occasion the moderator had to step in and cool us off with a verbal fire hose. Now that someone has asked us for our railroad-oriented advice, we are back in our friendly and comfortable groove talking about trains. Thank you.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
I'm thinking I should plan my own visit to Glenwood Springs now!
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
In regards to very young children on long train trips, both of my kids (twins) were just fine on the train at that age. We did some short local excursion trips first. In their early stages of language development color was often how they differentiated stuff. When I mentioned a trip they would ask with great excitement "Are we taking the Black Train (steam excursion) or the Blue Train (Amtrak)?" We still sometimes call them by these names they made up.
Thirty years later they still think of train trips as highlights of their childhood. When my daughter became a working adult without enough vacation to take the train to Arizona and back with me, I suggested she fly one or both ways and I would pay. She FIRMLY responded "If you are taking the train, I am taking the train!" and took the time off without pay.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Thankyou all for your lovely comments.
TwinStarRocket - that is lovely, and actually quite where we are now. The Green trains are the slow ones are the green trains that take us to London. The Red ones (though he calls these Pendolinos now) are the fast ones. The blue ones are the sleepers in the UK (we only have two!!) and the white ones are the EUrostars that take us to Europe. I do feel they will remember a lot (enough to make it worthwhile) but I think they will (like your daughter) appreciate something a lot more... spending TIME together, being a family, enjoying the journey... not just racing to get to the 'destination'. These are all amazing things about train journeys :-)(and I would be first to admit that, pre-Harry, I never saw that!!)
Henry - I am glad I helped a little (if utterly unintetionally!) I'm afraid I know nothing of US politics (other than you just had an election and I know which one looks better on the front of a newspaper!) so shall not enter an opinion on the matter.
I have, however, contacted the people you recommended to me regarding organisation and they are on the case :-)
George - I am absolutely sure I wish to take sleepers. First I know the children sleep well (we've taken many sleepers here in the UK / Europe, in little beds) so I feel more confident about that.
Secondly, I feel more secure this way (though I have read that not all sleeper cabins have locks - is this correct?)
And thirdly (and perhaps most importantly... from the view of my sanity and the sanity of the other train users... there will be times when I need to remove my children from the general public!! I am not naive enough to believe we're going to spend 6 weeks, give or take, on the move without a single 'incident'!!! so best we ensure we have some privacy when required.) I will send you a private message now with my e-mail address. I would be very interested in information on the area.
Thanks again for all your help. It is much appreciated and, I must admit, I'm rather impressed that no one has said 'You're bloody stupid to even be considering this' :-)
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Thanks, Gil and Henry -- I was thinking of the Hot Springs Lodge, the one which is visible from the GSC station. You have cleared up for me the fact that Hotel Colorado and the Hot Springs Lodge are NOT the same property -- that was what confused me.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
The individual rooms in the sleepers do not have locks, but access to the sleepers is monitored by the train staff. Don't, however, be foolish and leave valuables unattended in your room.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Right, sleeper rooms cannot be locked from the outside, although they do have lockable inside latches.
Bring along a commodious belt pack for your valuables and wear it when you're in the lounge car or dining car. That's what my wife does. I take my camera bag with me, or sometimes just the camera and lens.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Ah, thankyou.
That's actually similar to the Uk / Europe.
Here, you can lock them from the inside (which is really what I'm after) but if you lock them from the outside, you have to get a member of staff to let you in again. I'm not planning on taking valuables (other than the children!!) with me. But, I take your point that a belt pack or small back pack would be good for the more important items.
What's the WiFi like on the trains? I usually bring IPADS for the children (I find them much less hassle than toys, easier to transport and less messy than crayons!!) Obviously, the downloaded Apps will work but wondered if I could rely on internet access once the children as asleep?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Here comes the deal-breaker, Ms. Kayce; there ain't any.
The only way you will have any kind of internet connection is if you are able to access your carrier's towers lineside - and I always thought European devices and North American were not compatible - my Brother in Law who traveled overseas at least monthly (with JPMorgan) always had what he called his "Europhone". While your Amtrak train and the railroad over which it is operating have constant voice and data communication with their operations centers, nothing is said about same for the folk that pay the bills - the passengers.
In Northeastern US, Amtrak does offer Wi-Fi; however there are reports about suggesting more often than not it is quite inadequate. Only consolation: it's complimentary.
Of course I'm hardly the expert; somehow I live without any kind of portable electronic plaything beyond a Jitterbug cell phone (I'm writing from my desktop computer; Facebook and Twitter, what's that?), The twenty five nights that I will have been out of town during 2012, I just use hotel business centers, or simply do without.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Kacy, beware that if you do get a data signal from the mobile phone operators, you'll get charged a fortune unless you arrange some sort of package in advance. There's no Wifi on-board long distance trains.
Free Wifi can be had in certain stores - McDonalds, Best Buy (electronics, like Comet, except not in administration as far as I know), Barnes & Noble (bookshop), Starbucks - maybe others.
For Mr. Norman's benefit, most modern phones around the world will work in the US and in Europe, and usually Japan too - at least for roaming purposes.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Kacy, if you have an iPad with Verizon 3G (as I do), you will be able to access Internet datalinks in many places along the route of the Zephyr, especially where the train route parallels Interstate highways. Waaaaay out in the boonies and in the canyons of Colorado, no.
This is, however, with a U.S.-marketed iPad. Doubt if it works with an UK-marketed device.
GBN is right: there's no WiFi on American long-distance trains, except on the Coast Starlight, and it's spotty. However, you can access free WiFi in Chicago Union Station and Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal, and doubtless Portland and maybe Vancouver as well. Many coffee shops, libraries and restaurants offer free wireless.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
haha! That's me told!! Between London and Fort William (our longest train... and between pretty much two furthest points in the country), there is excellent Wifi coverage... I guess you just get used to it. I keep trying to remind myself that the UK is about 1/5 the size of Texas, so I'm not sure I've really got a handle on the scale of things.
I'll do a bit more research into IPADS. It might be that my UK ones work well enough for Apps (please tell me there is power on the trains!!!) or it might be worth considering a US one for the trip.
In a way, it'll be fun to be 'disconnected' - we are very much an internet connected family. I have a desk top and a lap top and both the children have internet connected IPADS. THat might be good for us to deal without it for a while :-)
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Even if I seem to live life perfectly well without all these electronic playthings, I recognize and respect that the middle class expects that in addition to heat, light, and cooling, that there is also a wireless connection available to the internet. I can't help but note how important 24/7 access to the internet appears to be to some, as on so many inquiries from infrequent and first time Amtrak travelers the inquiry "is wi-fi available?" made. I have also seen inquiries and consternation on-board; I can't forget how aboard Auto Train during February 2011 how I was sitting at a table in the Lounge for the pre-departure wine tasting and this Mother and teen age daughter sit down on the opposite side. The girl was "at the wailing wall' when she learned that the wi-fi was only good at Lorton and not en-route; she hustles off to their room. The Mother tells me "thank goodness you said something; she has school assignments to prepare and she must have on-line in order to get them done".
To me it sounds as if they were "expecting' that wi-fi would be available.
I of course note that Amtrak is spending "heap big wampum" to add wi-fi to both Amfleet and Acela cars. It almost seems to me that Amtrak was slow to "wake up and smell the other guy's coffee brewing' and that if they don't get their own kettle on the fire, they will lose many a potential rider.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
I have one question... and I appreciate you might suggest I move my conversation to another place (which I'm happy to do) but here goes:
On the way, I'd like to get photos taken, buy little momentos etc., I'd like to post these home rather than carry them with me, but I know enough to know that your postal service isn't like ours (as in... you don't have little red boxes all over the place!) ...Is it quite easy to post stuff back to the UK? I'm really talking about photos (you know, the ones you buy at inflated prices of the kids doing mad stuff!) I'm only thinking flat packed photos and a few little items but would be much easier to post them rather than carry them all. I remember trying to post some postcards in SF and it being really difficult to try and find a post centre (We have post boxes on pretty much every second corner) and you just stick stamps on and send it.
APologies, this is vereing off trains... so I'd be best to move it, please shout.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
I love your post, though, GBN!!
I'm really hoping I'm not 'expecting' anything. I'll try and plan as much as possible and the rest.... well, the rest will take care of itself!!!!!!
Thankyou!! x
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by KacyB: haha! That's me told!! Between London and Fort William (our longest train... and between pretty much two furthest points in the country), there is excellent Wifi coverage...
How about out to Mallaig?
Did that one 1979 through the Scottish Highlsnds and thinking of "Brigadoon"; had to be one of the most scenic train rides I ever took in this life.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by KacyB: I have one question... and I appreciate you might suggest I move my conversation to another place (which I'm happy to do) but here goes:
On the way, I'd like to get photos taken, buy little momentos etc., I'd like to post these home rather than carry them with me, but I know enough to know that your postal service isn't like ours (as in... you don't have little red boxes all over the place!) ...Is it quite easy to post stuff back to the UK? I'm really talking about photos (you know, the ones you buy at inflated prices of the kids doing mad stuff!) I'm only thinking flat packed photos and a few little items but would be much easier to post them rather than carry them all. I remember trying to post some postcards in SF and it being really difficult to try and find a post centre (We have post boxes on pretty much every second corner) and you just stick stamps on and send it.
APologies, this is vereing off trains... so I'd be best to move it, please shout.
Find a US post office, grab a box, stuff it with whatever you like, go to the counter, send it off. They do flat rate boxes like one I sent to my sister for about $60; cheaper ones too, especially if you're only going to send documents (photos).
One reason for not needing post boxes all over the place is that you can leave your mail in your mailbox for the mailman (postman) to collect as (s)he delivers your mail. Great idea, though obviously wouldn't work in the UK as they tend to be letterboxes in front doors rather than mailboxes on the street.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
I'm just back on line and will jump in here:
I stayed 2 nights in Glenwood Springs a few years ago without a car, and it was fine. The only thing is, I didn't get to take the public bus to Aspen, as I'd planned. I stayed at the Hotel Denver. It is right upstairs from the train station (if you go way down the platform there is also ramp access without stairs) and the staff will even help you up and down with your luggage, should you so desire. I had BREAKFAST, however, at the Hotel Colorado across the river--it was delicious, with some really special options. Other meals probably fine too, though pricier. You could walk across the river but the Hotel Denver also has a shuttle bus that will take you over. The hot springs (also across the river) were very nice to visit, and if you don't have your own bathing suits you can rent one very cheap. I also took the local public bus around town (free) just out to see a mountain view. And I remember a nice inexpensive Mexican restaurant down the street from the Denver (along the rr track), name had the Spanish word for rooster or hen or checkn in it, but my memory is going a bit.
The other place on the Zephyr route that I'd recommend for an interesting stopover would be Salt Lake City, though I've heard it can be brutally hot in August--I was there in early June and it was lovely weather then. As with Glenwood Springs, I think you'd only need to stay 2 nights, though arrival and departure times to SLC are nowhere near as convenient as Glenwood Springs. (If you go to both, you can go coach between them, sleepers not needed, just be sure to get into the observation car as soon as you board in Glenwood Springs--that goes for even if you do not stop in SLC.) SLC is a very interesting city, hotels not too expensive, and I found getting a taxi to one at night was no problem (though ALWAYS do have on hand phone numbers of taxi services in places to which you are arriving at odd hours, just in case). I stayed at a Hampton Inn that was a bit more of a walk to the tourist area than some other hotels, but still walkable. The streets are very very wide and have a bizarre numbering system, e.g., 100 Street is called 1st Street, and there is a N 100 Street and a S 100 Street, something like that, all centered around the Mormon HQ (similar to the way Washington DC has the street numbers in either direction centered around the Capitol.) The Mormon sites are interesting (though someone will try to convert you!); you won't be allowed in the temple but would visit the sort-of campus/minipark around it and, if possible, the Tabernacle and hear the famous choir rehearse there, I think it's Thursdays and early Sunday morning, before the show, but that could have expanded. You can also tour Brigham Young's Beehive House and walk along the wide street from there east--I think it's South St? passing all the mansions, non-Mormon churches etc (SLC is only about half Mormon, as opposed to the rest of the state). The state capitol building is well worth a visit and has a good tour; there is another park area just below it, and a few historical houses nearby. On the south (non-Mormon) side of town is a somewhat interesting modern library and a Nepali/Indian restaurant called Himalaya that I liked. Be sure to take a local bus tour out to see the Great Salt Lake, fascinating place; the tour will probably also include the copper mine.
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
It's good to see you're back, Sojourner. Posted by MargaretSPfan (Member # 3632) on :
KacyB: I wish you very well with your upcoming trip with your children. How well will your 3-year-old girl be able to amuse herself without Wifi? You may want to consider packing some of her favorite games and toys -- just don't bring anything irreplaceable. Very long train trips can sometimes be quite boring, even to adults. You also need to factor in the inevitable delays -- any given long-distance Amtrak train can run several hours late -- or more.
I would recommend that you spend some time in the Sightseer lounge car, where you can meet other passengers, and your children might even meet other children approximately their ages. That is what I like best about riding long-distance trains: the chance to meet interesting new people, most of whom are very nice. Sightseer Lounges also have huge windows that wrap up into the ceiling -- a really good way to see the beautiful scenery you will sometimes pass through.
Another small point: if you are in a sleeper, all your meals are included in your ticket price. This is a really nice thing.
As you may know, trains are quite limited in the amount of water they can carry on board, so showers are on a timer. (I think -- it has been a long time since I rode overnight on Amtrak.) You will definitely appreciate the endless supply of hot water in the hotels you will be staying in.
Your children will enjoy the sights and activities in the various cities you stay in. I am on the side of those who think they will remember very little of the trip.
I traveled extensively overseas when I was between the ages of 7 and 14, yet I remember very little of those trips -- just fragments here and there. What all that traveling did for me, however, was to give me a great and deep love of traveling. It took me many years before I could go past San Francisco International Airport without immediately wanting to get on a plane -- any plane! -- and go somewhere -- anywhere!
To sum up: I am very glad you have planned to stay a few days in various suitable cities, and that you are going to book sleeper space on the trains. That is most considerate of you -- for those times when your children are tired and/or out of sorts and need a quiet place to de-stress and relax in. Just please be realistic about what a trip this long asks of children as young as yours.
Good luck, and have a super-great trip!
Remember, as "chrisg" likes to say, "Every trip is an adventure!"
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Kacy, there is power in each sleeper room. It is 120 volt and 60 cycle, which is different than Europe, so you will need a converter. A power strip will be helpful because there is only one plug in the room.
Ipads can be targets for thieves, so keep an eye out, but the rail customers are a captive audience, except at station stops.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Kacy, I presume you download children's games, books and movies to your iPad. They are godsends to this grandpa who helps take care of a 4-year-old and a 6-year-old.
A portable DVD player and a clutch of children's movies on disc might also be a good idea. My sons and their wives use them on long auto trips and they keep the children occupied.
Posted by mgt (Member # 5479) on :
You should get your Amtrak reservations as soon as possible. Sleepers frequently sell out in the summer. Like others above I would opt for a Bedroom or the Family Room; there are only five Bedrooms and one Family Room per coach on the double-decker Superliners which run on all the overnight legs you have mentioned. It is probably more fun for we Brits to travel on the top deck! The Family Room is on the lower floor, but does have two windows. A Roomette would be very cramped. We have booked all our Amtrak trips through TRAILFINDERS who have branches throughout the UK. They are familiar with the Amtrak systems and are efficient. In theory you could probably book on-line and retrieve your tickets from an Amtrak machine in New York, but I prefer to deal with real persons and have the backing of a reputable travel firm behind me. Trailfinders issue you with a voucher which you then exchange for "real tickets" at an Amtrak agency/station. As your first leg is from New York you will probably do this at Penn Station in New York. Allow plenty of time for this as there are sometimes lengthy queues and make sure you have your passport at hand. Amtrak have started e-ticketing this year but our reservations from New York to New Orleans for 2013 have been dealt with in the usual way by Trailfinders so far. You will also have the advantage in Washington and Chicago of the exclusive first class lounges for Sleeper passengers, and, if you travel Acela first class, there is also a lounge in Penn Station. There is no checked baggage service on Acela but most Redcaps, the porters, are helpful and will get you to the correct platform on time. On the other long-distance trains the checked baggage system has always worked well for us, both when travelling straight through and also when breaking the journey. It relieves you of all the hassle of luggage and allows you to fully enjoy the experience. You are wise to leave two to three days gaps between stages; Amtrak trains are frequently subject to delays and same-day connections should be avoided. The same applies to planes; ensure that you have a couple of days buffer before your flight and first departure. The Chicago Museum of Science and Industry is well worth a visit, there is a superb model railway at the top of the building and downstairs the original streamlined Burlington Zephyr is on display; it provides simulated trips with commentary! Emeryville, the station for San Francisco is connected to the main city by bus. I presume you are flying to the UK from Toronto. I would not recommend the Maple Leaf to New York, with the two hour plus delay at Niagara for immigration clearance. I am sure, with sll the though and planning which has already gone into your trip you will have a wonderful time.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
MGT, with the new e-ticketing, I think you can book pretty easily and retrieve the e-ticket from the computer, but I could be wrong about what goes on when booking from the UK.
I would advise getting a bedroom on the 2nd floor rather than the family room, personally. Downstairs has poor views and a more fuel-y smell. The bedrooms have their own toilet and shower. But they are pricey! Of course, I have known some folks who slept 3 in a roomette, with children, but that involves sharing a small bunk bed, which can be very difficult. When I travel with a friend, we get TWO roomettes, but with children the age of yours, that is not an option. I will post separately on some things to do in NYC, DC, Chicago, San Francisco, Portland, Vancouver, Jasper, and Toronto when I have a chance. Keep in mind, though, that stopping off the Canadian will be tricky because it does not run every day.
Also, I see some folks have mentioned a stop in Sacramento. May I say I definitely prefer San Francisco LOTS over Sacramento! Also, Sacramento can be very hot in summer. However, for a rail fan like your son, the California train museum in Sacramento may be a treat. I suppose what you might do is take the Zephyr as far as Sacramento and do an overnight there, then catch a Capitol Corridors down to San Francisco after lunch the next day. Keep in mind that the Zephyr is often quite late, so don't plan on doing much when you get in--and perhaps you will be pleasantly surprised. Then the next morning you can see the rail museum before heading to SF. On the other hand, your kids will probably like the cable cars in San Francisco, and there is a museum for that there!
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Mgt - Henry has already advised me on timings and has helpfully suggested people who can organise not only the trains but also the hotels etc., so they are on the case. There is chance that I've already left it too late, but here's hoping I haven't!!
The plan is to fly into NY but out of TOronto. That is, obviously, not set in stone, but I couldn't find a suitable way to travel from NY to Niagara (or atleast one I felt happy with). It seems more sensible that way.
I'm planning one or two clear days between cities, so will (hopefully) have atleast one full day in each place. I'm hoping, once I get some details on train availability, we can decide exactly what the plan is.
SF is not negotiable, as it's where I had my honeymoon. Really, really looking forward to taking the children to Alcatraz, Cliff House and on the trams (and the Cathedral, which I remember being amazing!) but also (I think) a jelly bean factory and the forest... and my dad told me about somewhere just across the bridge (I forget the name) but it's supposed to be a lovely village...
I think NY is pretty sorted - standard tourist stuff, plus the zoo at central park. Washington... the white house and capitol hill Chicago - I will check out the suggestions given here. The science museum should tick quite a few boxes and, I think, would be good to have the children understand the journey they are about to take. GWS - I think we will just chill out and maybe visit the springs. Just enjoy midwest (Is that the right area!?) of America. Portland... Not sure, but I just want to go there. Vancouver - the aquarium and the cable car Jasper - Once again, just chill and take in the atmosphere Toronto - CN tower and trip to NIagara
So that's where we are.
Thanks for the notes re. power. I will have an adaptor. 90% of the stuff the children do on lap tops is downloaded (great tip about the film though - thanks, Henry!) so wifi won't bother me a jot. The internet connection is more for me, really, so won't bother the kids in terms of apps.
Thanks also for the tip re. 'pinchable' items. I will look into a bag which is not overly large but will fit all our 'neccesities' in safely. I'm planning to take either 1 back pack or 2 'fly-safe' pullalong bags. I'm erring more to the side of two bags as (i) my son will happily pull one for me and (ii) I think they would be more accessible (nothing worse than having the one thing you need at the bottom of a loaded backpack!) and (iii) I guess easier to store. Also, if we take 2 pullalong bags, I can have a 'day' pack for all the stuff we don't want to leave lying around.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Sorry, just to add: I do NOT want to check luggage. Harry is not good at waiting in line and not good at waiting for luggage after a plane journey.
So, whatever we take... will come with us on the flight. We will have 3 lots of hand luggage allowed, so that's what we'll deal with.
Posted by cubzo (Member # 4700) on :
Sausalito might bee that village across the bridge. Youn take a ferry there.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Kacy, first let it be noted that I have flown overseas with everything needed for a ten day journey under the Coach seat storage area. It can be done; simply keep in mind my first rule of travel "If you can't CARRY it, don't bring it".
Now that Salt Lake City is in "play" as a possible stop off, allow it to be noted I wholly concur with every positive thought Ms. Sojourner sets forth - and I lived there for about a year (I was in service stationed at Hill AFB).
The biggest problem with considering SLC as a stop off is the inconvenient hours through which the Zephyr passes both East and West. That it does so is simply one of the "trade offs" that must be made when there is only "one a day". If SLC were to be served at people hours, then Denver, a larger traffic source, would be served at an odd hour, and the worst would be that all the connections at Chicago would be affected.
I most recently visited there during 2010, and if I had the endurance and the desire to travel that so many here have, I'd go again in a heartbeat. However, owing to the "convenient" Zephyr schedule, I'd either fly or drive.
I stayed at this Marriott, which was fine for me with its easy auto access and its proximity to the Abravanel Performing Arts Center that is home to the Utah Symphony - a world class ensemble (with small children, obviously of no concern).
Not that I am any kind of "shopaholic' or "mall rat", I would like to see the City Creek "mixed use" development first hand. I understand the architecture is magnificent and is hardly an eyesore landed in the center of a mid-sized city.
The LDS church? They stand for so much that is so good - work hard, play hard, and pray hard - that what , one could say, a persecuted sect built from nothing is truly commendable. After all, we came fairly close to electing one of their own as our President.
A drink? you can get one anywhere - including at Marriott (LDS influenced chainwide - just look in a bedstand's drawer). Smoking, how many public places can you do that nowadays (I understand "they're cracking down" on the foul fog in Europe) anywhere.
Ethnic cuisines, I defer to Ms. Sojourner on that stuff. Bacon and eggs for Breakfast and a good steak for Dinner is "my kind of grub" in this life - the dozen or so around here who know me face to face will certainly agree.
But even though you will not likely consider SLC, I enjoy the opportunity to get in a plug for one of my favorite regions in the USA.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Glenwood Springs is a scenic little Rocky Mountain town--it is NOT the Midwest. Chicago is the Midwest--once you leave, quite flat, as the Midwest mostly is. Denver is at the very end of the Midwest; then you start to climb. Note that Glenwood Springs is not super different from Jasper in some ways (the mountains in Alberta there are the extension of the same Rockies, pretty much), which is one reason I mentioned Salt Lake City as a possible alternative Zephyr stop. But they are both nice in different ways, and Glenwood Springs will be much cooler.
In New York City, I recommend walk on the High Line on a weekday morning. It's lovely and not far from Penn Station (go down the south side of W30th to just past 10th Av); there is some construction right there but you will find the elevator up. Many people go on it, so be sure to go before 10AM, weekday if at all possible. Walk all the way down to the end (it's just over a mile), then back up to Chelsea Piers, where there are some fun things for kids (possibly even boat rides). In addition to the plantings, interesting viewing spots, seats, architecture along the way, there are more distant views from including the Empire State at one point (on the left heading down) and even, further down, the Statue of Liberty in the distance.
Some other neat places in Midtown are Grand Central Station (runs from E 42nd to E 45th St, best approached from Park Av South or Vanderbilt Av down the main staircase), which used to have free (with donation) tours from the clock at 12:30 Wednesdays; also a nice market downstairs and eating, though very crowded weekdays. And, nearby, the main branch of the NY Public Library (5th Av & W 42nd), which is a fantasitc building to tour and also has free neat exhibits inside. If you walk up to the library on E41st St from Park Av S or Madison Av to 5th Av, you can see embedded in the sidewalk neat quotes of famous authors--"library walk." East of here at 1st Av and E42nd is the United Nations.
SuperStorm Sandy damage was very heavy downtown, especially on the East side (including South St Seport Museum very badly hit, though hopefully will be back on track by summer). From Battery Park, which is nice, there are ferries (statue itself has very long waits, and you need to book ahead to go inside) to the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island; don't know what storm damage did to all this). But there are boat rides from other places too, including I think maybe Chelsea Piers. Manhattan by boat is a very nice thing to do, esp on a warmish day.
In Central Park, be sure to see the Alice in Wonderland clock outside the zoo, and the feeding of the seals (I think 2PM and another, maybe 3?3:15? you can check the website for the times). Heading up (about 15-20 blocks; you can walk on Fifth Ave too) is the Metropolitan Museum of Art (the price they ask is steep but you can pay what you like, read the fine print!), the Egyptian hall (with pyramid etc) and the armory are among the things there likely to appeal to kids, and rooftop sculpture (though can be crowded). Walking through to the West Side of Central Park is the famous Museum of Natural History (Central Park West and W79th St) with Planetarium, but it's rather pricey and you can see the same sort of stuff (dinosaur bones etc) for free at the one in DC. In fact, I would recommend the various Washington DC Smithsonian museums over Chicago's for that reason.
In Washington DC, as noted, most things are free. The Capitol (and its visitors center) is very much worth a tour but the White House is actually a bit dull, with long lines and speedy runthroughs (unless things have changed; I was last there when Clinton was president). Regarding the Capitol, lines are long, get there early in the morning--but Americans can write their Congressperson in advance to get into the Capitol early on a shorter line--you might inquire at the American Embassy for something comparable. Union Station itself is splendid. In the National Portrait Gallery you can see all the American presidents etc etc. Nearby, your kids might like a visit to the Spy Museum, though that one has a charge; one can go there after closings of other things, though. Chinatown has inexpensive places to eat, such as Eat First. Also not far from here, I found the FBI tour dull, esp as it's an ugly building, but boys usually like it.
In Chicago you want to go down to Millennium Park and see "the Bean" (real name, Cloud Gate), Gehry stage, and walk across the BP Bridge to the Lake (Lake Michigan), walking along down at least to around Jackson, where you would go back into Grant Park (runs along the lake) to see the Franklin Fountain. [Also, forgot to mention opposite Millennium Park across Michigan Av is the Chicago Cultural Center, former library, famous Tiffany ceiling etc (scenes from the film Untouchables filmed here).] Continuing down along the lake you can go all the way to the Field Museum, even the Aquarium (long walk but nice in summer)--but IMO if you've seen one Aquarium you've seen them all), planetarium etc. The science museum may be fun but it's more out of the way, you need to take public transit. Instead you might consider another place kids like, well on the other side of Millennium Park, Navy Pier, which you can access by water taxi, as from the canal by Union Station. And be sure to see the old Main Hall at Union Station itself.
San Francisco has the overcrowded Fisherman's Wharf, though walking along the bay all the way up to the Marina district (toward the Golden Gate Bridge) is lovely, as is the Palace des Arts (sp?) Yuou can take the boat tour to Alcatraz and perhaps a bus tour to Muir Woods; I believe they come back with a stop in Sausalito, where you can stay and come back by ferry. Get up very early to take a cable car (check when they start, take the first one) or they get super busy.
Portland is a small city, I don't know that it would appeal that much to kids but it does have a lovely train station and good light rail system you can run around on. Walk along the river (Willamette), down to Pioneer Square, along that street with the museums, have lunch in Pings in the small Chinatown (trendy good restaurant), and most of all try to get to the International Rose Testing Gardens (I think you can take the light rail there), which are lovely, with good views of the city. There is also the big bookstore, Powells.
Vancouver has a nice market, magnificent harbor, terrific park designed by same fellow as did Central Park in NYC (I'm blanking on name--Stanley Park--with zoo etc I'm sure), Kitsilano (sp?) Beach, trolleys (similar in Toronto).
I think my posts above crossed with yours so you might not have seen my "edit."
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
Kacy
While in San Francisco you might want to make a stop at Pier 39. While it has lots of touristy shops, it also has street musicians, puppet shows and best of all the sea lions to watch and "talk" to. Great view of Alcatraz at the end of the pier.
Google "Pier 39" for info.
Dee
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Sausolito... that's the one... My dad said to go there. Thankyou.
Thankyou for all your advice. I am keeping a record of all the ideas of what (and what not!) to do.
I haven't actually told my mum yet, but Imogen told her that she's super excited that she is taking the biggest train in the world (The Zephyr). THe kids are really getting excited about the trip.
Does anyone know what IS the biggest train in the world?
Thankyou all for your advice. I promise I'm going to bug you until July next year (apologies hereby given!) You have all been so amazingly helpful and brilliantly positive about the whole trip :-)
Kacy. x
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
Portland doesn't offer much in the way of spectacular things to do, but it's a beautiful city with lots of really nice neighborhoods. It would be a great place to take a break from travel and long lines at tourist traps. Chill out for a day or two in Portland and you'll be ready for the rest of your trip. Be sure to take the light rail to Washington Park and spend the day at the Zoo and the Children's Museum. There is a miniature train that you can ride around the Zoo and the Children's Museum has a good reputation (I've never been through it). The park itself is worth a visit.
There's also an aerial tram that connects with the Portland Streetcar. Ride it roundtrip for the views.
In downtown you can walk around the Pearl District, spend some time in the parks (stop in Jamison Square) and browse through Powell's Books--always worth the visit.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by KacyB: Does anyone know what IS the biggest train in the world?
Ms. Karen, if your inquiry means what is the longest passenger train in the world, that goes to the Auto Train.
This is a train that is seventeen two level passenger cars and thirty some auto carriers. It operates from "near Washington" (Lorton VA) to "near Orlando" (Sanford FL) handling passengers and their autos. It is what the European roads call "Moto-Rail".
I seem to use it once most every year.
The service is quite well used, and there is no reason to give it away (2 psgrs and auto; figure US$1200 each way, subject to demand pricing).
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
The Canadian has more cars than the Zephyr.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Thanks, Gilbert!
Just realised that you mentioned Mallaig earlier - we actually took that train (the Jacobite express) from fort William to Mallaig and back for Harry's 4th birthday! We took the sleeper to and from fort William to London.
It would seem you and Harry have similar views on a lovely train trip! It poured with rain the day we did it, and we had time for a quick fish and chips in Mallaig, but it was a fab day out and Harry was allowed to stand in the cab of the steam train!
My only regret was not taking the sleeper immediately (we stayed for an extra day) and the kids would have been happier to stay at the station and get the sleeper than go back to the hotel for the night!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
When I made that journey during 1979, the weather was adequately clear. I started from Glasgow, rode to Mallaig, ferry to Kyle of Localsh, thence to Inverness and an overnight sleeper back to Kings X.
I was far more the traveler once upon a time (some here may find hard to believe but I have been some 3/4th the way around the world - roundly 16E to 100E is missing) than I am today; fortunately I was able to do it all at a time when I was young enough to enjoy the experiences.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
That's lovely, Gilbert. I love Inverness and have taken the sleeper to Kings X from there too. Can I ask... how do US sleepers compare to UK ones? My children have always slept well on the UK / European ones.. I think your trains have more facilities?
Harry would love to go around the world, but - for the life of me - I can't find a good way around the bearing straights. He loves the trans siberian express, but Vladivostock is beyond me at the moment!!
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Sojourner touched on this earlier -
Glenwood Springs is beyond where the 'midwest' ends. Is that not what the locals call the 'Inter-Mountain' region? West of the Rockies but east of the Sierra Nevadas?
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
Depending on how much time you have in Washington, your stopover would be well spent in the Smithsonian Museums that line the National Mall. Top three are: American History, which besides the aforementioned steam locomotive in the basement, features the First Ladies'Inaugural gowns, historic automobiles, and Abraham Lincoln's suit and hat. Natural History: An extensive collection of nature dioramas with animals from every region of Earth. Also the Hope Diamond. Air and Space: Historical and iconic aircraft like the Wright Brothers' "Kitty Hawk Flyer", Charles Lindbergh's "Spirit of St. Louis", the Apollo 11 Space Capsule, and many more.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
OK, itinerary all set. Can't quite believe it! We're off on 8th July. Eeek!! Excited just doesn't do my feeling justice!!
Thankyou all for your help. We'll keep you posted, of course.
Thanks to my lovely, amazing son, I am going to see parts of the world I never really knew existed!!! Wowee!!!
kacy x
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
KacyB, we're not going to let you off so easily. We expect detailed daily dispatches, complete with photographs!
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Super!!!!
Please keep us updated...... perhaps even remind us of when you'll be departing on each rail segment. We're not stalkers but we do enjoy vicariously keeping tabs on how the trains are doing timewise when one of our regulars is out riding.
Posted by cubzo (Member # 4700) on :
Everyone loves a great story and so far the prelude has been very interesting. Can't wait for the reports from the actual adventure.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
hi guys.
Our plans are coming on really well. I just have one question: my kids really would like to go gold prospecting. Where is best on our trip? Ideally, I would like to take a steam train... I have 'heard' this is possible from SF< but cannot find a link.
We are going from Chicago - Glenwood Springs - SF - Portland. An advice on where we would go? Looks like I will have company from Chicago now, so hiring a car is no longer a non-option!
Thank you all. Karen x
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Hi All, Just thought I would keep you updated on our plans.
We are all set... so our plans are NYC - Washington (Acela Express) then Wash - Chicago and from there we pick up the Califorian Zephyr, stopping at Denver for a steam train trip and then at Glenwood springs for the spa. From there to SF... then up the west coast to Vancouver and ALLLLL the way back across Canada to Toronto in one go... All 4 children will come across America with me, but the elder ones will meet their dad in SF and go to Las Vegas for a few days before flying home.
the little ones and I will head to Niagara before heading back to NYC (and a trip to FAO Schwarts!!!)
So, now that's all sorted, I'm open to any ideas on what to do in the various places / unmissable / overrated etc. Any ideas?
Also, I have been approached by an independant publisher to write a book on our trip... Given that this is primarily about the trains for Harry (who is the reason we are doing the trip at all) - what information do people want to know about trains?
thanks, Kacy. x
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Kacy, while I do not know what the publisher of the proposed book has in mind—i.e., what audience the publisher wants the book addressed to—I surmise that families, especially those with special needs children, are the target.
If that is true, I would avoid a lot of nuts and bolts detail about railroading EXCEPT the things small children would be interested in. And that could be a good deal of simple information about locomotives, cars and the like. Your son could be a good filter for this information.
Parents would, I think, be interested in the logistics of the trip, especially how you put it together, and the costs. I would not be exact about the costs--just round off to the nearest three figures. Be sure to specify the year of the trip so that readers down the line can allow for inflation.
It might be a good idea to describe the trip from multiple points of view, including that of your son.
These ideas are just to start you off.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Kacy -- sounds like a great itinerary! You and the kids will enjoy it, especially the Coast Starlight up the west coast and the trans-Canada trip. From the new schdule of the Canadian, it appears that you still go through the Canadian Rockies eastbound by day, which you will enjoy.
What steam train are you going to visit in the Denver area?
Since apparently you are stopping in Niagara Falls, of course the Falls are spectacular. I assume you'll take either the Maple Leaf or a local VIA train from Toronto-Niagara, then stay overnight in Niagara (?), then take an Empire Service train back to NY the next day?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Karen, I presume the book you are planning will be themed "a European child's view of North American railroads'. If such be the case, then I would hope your book will bring out that passenger trains away from the Northeast are really a "sideshow" over here and that freight transportation is what it is all about.
I think that will become evident to you as you will see the only railroad facilities and trains that handle freight. Most, like apparently your husband and/or your children's Father, simply "fly over" all of it.
But all told, it appears that you are taking a very balanced approach to this adventure and are planning far more than "eating sleeping and drinking trains" that many here will readily acknowledge they do on their journeys.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Sounds like you'll have a great time!
Which train are you going on from Washington, DC to Chicago? There are two - the Capitol Limited and the Cardinal (my preference before it got downgraded to a single deck train with limited food - is that still the case?).
Enjoy the trip and don't fuss over the delays. Though there are snack cars on your trains, I would stock up on nibbles and bottled drinks for the kids before boarding.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
There is a nice Children's Museum in Denver a short cab ride from the Amtrak Station. I'll add a link below.
Like others, I am curious which steam train you're looking at in Colorado. There are many scenic railraods..... some of them a good 6-8 hour drive from Denver..... in Colorado.
And which steam train are you riding in Colorado? There are so many to choose from: Durango & Silverton, Cumbres & Toltec, Cripple Creek, Leadville, Rio Grande Scenic...
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Hi All, thankyou for your replies. I will definitely look into the CHildren's museum. I am trying to come up with a range of things to do and have two zoos (central park and Toronto) and two aquariums (Chicago and Vancouver) in mind.
The trains are these: NYC - Wash Acela Express Wash - Chic Capitol Ltd Chic - SF Californian Zephyr SF - Port Coast Starlight Port - Vanc Amtrak Cascades Vanc - Toro The Canadian Toro - Niagara - NYC Maple Leaf
Georgetown is the name of the railroad we are visiting. It is 45 miles outside Denver (and I am taking the fifth and hiring a car PLUS driver :-)
I will explain my rather complicated family. My husband is father to all four children, but only the two little ones are mine (biologically). The elder two are my step children. And, yes, my husband will pretty much fly over the whole thing, picking us up at Glenwood Springs and onto SF. We have almost a week there, before I will return to the trains and he will take the elder children to Vegas by plane...
Kacy x
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Me again... sorry!
Does anyone know if the Zepphyr goes anywhere near the continental divide? (Milner Pass, Rockies at a little over 10,000 feet?)
Would love to take the kids there, especially as the eldest is hoping to study geography at Uni next year :-)
thanks, will stop bothering you all for a while now. x
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
OK, I'm sorted on the continental divide :-)
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Karen, aboard #5, Zephyr, you will be in the middle of the 6.2 mile Moffat Tunnel when X-ing the Continental Divide at an altitude of 9200ft.
The Continental Divide is simply a point in the land mass where on one side of it, rivers flow in one direction and on the other in the opposite. Here the Divide largely follows the North-South mountain range that extends the length of North and South America. In the US, in many places it is within a sharp mountain range, such as the Rockies in Colorado, in others, you wouldn't even know you X'd it were it not for some signage by a highway.
I'm not completely sure where such a Divide is in Great Britain; it seems like, just based on my observations when I've "been over", the Thames and the Tweed flow Eastward to the North Sea, yet the Severn flows Westward to the Irish Sea. On the European Continent, again drawing from my limited observations from journeys past, it seems like the Rhine, Seine, Elbe all flow Northward to the Baltic Sea, yet the Rhone flows Southward to the Med. If such be the case, then there would appear to be a Divide traversing the Continent in an East West direction, but traveling from Avignon to Paris I cannot recall any noticeable mountain pass (same as over here on rail routes used by the Sunset, or on one - BNSF Transcon) that do not have passenger train service.
Finally, and to move away from the rivers, I again want to impress that I believe you will find that North American railroading is simply "not about" passenger trains; they are about moving freight - and in volumes that will simply astound a visitor from overseas. While navigable waterways are available to most industrial and commercial centers, the inland waterways primarily flow North-South through the "midsection'. While there is much highway transport (trucks/"lorries"), the economics are simply against such being more than a means to "feed" into rail and waterways and to move overland the traffic that has high value sufficient to justify much higher rates than rail transport. While in the Northeast, especially on your NY-Wash segment, you will see passenger trains operating on frequencies about the same as you do in the UK, that is hardly the case elsewhere. The trains you will ride are "one a days", or, with the companion train in the opposite direction, the only ones on those rails. That there are any passenger trains on the routes you plan to ride away from the Northeast is simply a political accident, and I contend exist only because the managers of investor owned railroads "made a bad bet" some forty years ago and find themselves locked into operating government sponsored trains that they would just as soon not operate. But passenger trains, whether people ride them or not, are popular with elected politicians, and the railroads have simply decided it is simply most expedient to "just live with 'em" rather than making a concerted effort, through "behind the scenes" lobbying by their trade association, to have them discontinued.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Kacy -- you will also cross the Continental Divide on the Canadian, around Mt. Robson, which is typically pointed out and announced by the dome car attendant. Unlike Colorado, and depending on the weather, you will actually see Mt. Robson and the Divide from the train.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Now that you have chosen to share your itinerary here at the Forum, there is one caveat I wish to add.
Your first journey will be on the Acela, which unquestionably is "Amtrak's best foot forward". Here is a high speed intercity service that holds its own with any in Western Europe - and I'd dare say more comfortable in "Business" (that's Coach) than that found on the TGV or Eurostar.
"Don't judge the rest of your trip by what you experienced aboard the Acela". It is simply "not there". Acela "gets the railroad" (which Amtrak owns) and with never less than two tracks and often many more; you will stop inexplicably on your other trains to wait for a freight or if moving you will be doing so at the freight train's speed. It is not account a railroad's intent (some disagree) to wilfully delay Amtrak; it is just there is so much traffic to move that generates the profit to keep the industry viable - and to add insult to injury, Amtrak is hardly paying these roads a "fair share" to handle their trains.
Just some thoughts to stow away until you come on over.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Ah....... the Georgetown Loop - that is a fascinating ride.
If you need anything more 'train' in the Denver area, there is also the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, CO...... roughly one third of the way from Denver to Georgetown and Silver Plume.
I don't know how much time you'll spend in Washington, but you could do worse than visit their excellent zoo. And in San Francisco, you should visit Pier 39, which became the home of hundreds of California Sea Lions - their idea. Since they are a protected species, nothing could be done to remove them, so they became a tourist attraction. If your kids like animals, maybe they'd like to see some in a place of their (the animals') choosing.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
I am hoping (and I know I'm on a bit of a mission!) to take the kids on a tour of the white house while in Washington. I have heard that passes for non Americans are like gold dust... but I'm not one to be put off at the first hurdle :-)
I am rather fascinated by the general American view of train travel - it will be great to experience. I did calculate that the average speed of the Zephyr must be about 25mph :-)
We will DEFINITELY visit the sea lions on Pier 39. I am so looking forward to going back to San Francisco, and I have read that the journey from Emeryville to downtown SF is rather lovely (I hope so, because that's one small fact I haven't shared with the kids yet - that they will actually arrive at a bus station some way out of SF!!!!)
Thanks for the heads up on Georgetown. I think the 'big kids' will head off for a day in Denver, but we will make the most of the steam train!
Kacy. x
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by KacyB: I did calculate that the average speed of the Zephyr must be about 25mph
Well not quite that bad, but getting there.
Zephyr Chicago-Emeryville 2438mi 52hr 10min; 46.7mph
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Kacy -- what you and Mr. Norman are not taking into consideration are the DWELL TIMES at some of the stations along the CZ route -- the CZ is scheduled to stop in Denver for almost an hour, and in Salt Lake City for almost 1/2 hour. In the areas near the major population centers (S.F. Bay area, Denver, SLC, Omaha, Chicago, etc.) the train will travel slow because of the large number of sidings, switches, crossings (whether at grade or above/below grade)and the amount of freight traffic. In the "wide open spaces" in the plains or desert between many cities on the CZ route, however, the CZ can legally operate at 79 mph. (travel through the Sierra Nevada Mtns and the Rockies is considerably slower)
I rode the CZ east from Sacramento last summer, and it arrived in Chicago more than 1/2 hour EARLY.
Mr. Norman is right about the NE Corridor and the Acela -- there are no grade crosssings at all between Washington & New York, since the RR is owned by AMTRAK and has been extensively upgraded over the last 30 years or so to allow high-speed efficient passenger trains, that can maintain a constant speed of 100 mph give-or-take.
Posted by cubzo (Member # 4700) on :
Another place to visit while in San Francisco is the Cable Car Museum. This is a working museum where you'll see the cables that pull the cars. Also a machine shop where they work on both the cables and the cable cars.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
Right now I'm packing for an overnight trip on the Starlight (in a roomette) and I'm collecting some of the things that might make my experience more pleasurable. [Kacy, you might want to make note of this list.] So far, I've packed a small amount of duct tape, some binder clips, an eye shade and ear plugs. Am I forgetting anything important? It's been over 2 years since my last overnight trip.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vincent206: Am I forgetting anything important?
A nice bottle of vino? Perhaps not for Kacy!
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
QUOTE]A nice bottle of vino? Perhaps not for Kacy! [/QB][/QUOTE]
4 kids, 3 minors.... I think I'll be leaving that glass of bubbly for my return to the UK!!
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
a small amount of duct tape, some binder clips, an eye shade and ear plugs. Am I forgetting anything important?
Vincent206 - what on earth are these things for? I am not planning on any of these things!!
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Annoying creaks in the night, shafts of light from badly fitting curtains, etc. Duct tape and clips limit some of that to an extent. It's not like a washing machine bouncing around the room but you're on a moving train with its accompanying noises, most of which you can't do anything about though. Some folks find it too much of a difference from their nice quiet bed at home!
Unless Vincent was thinking of duct tape for the kids...? Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
No kids on this trip! I have only one kid still living at home and I've never taken him on an overnight trip. I don't think he's ready for a long trip, yet.
The duct tape and clips will be to make small repairs in window shades that don't close properly or if something needs to be held in place. The eye shade and ear plugs are for a better night sleep. I've also put a wristwatch into my bag.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Kacy -- don't let this talk of duct tape and clips scare you away!!! I've been riding AMTRAK almost ever since they first started in 1971, and I have NEVER used these things!!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Karen, I too am astounded at the "need" for all this ancillary stuff. By now, you are aware and accept, even though traveling Sleeper for any overnight segments, that you and the kids are embarking on an "indoor camping adventure" and you will be roughing it (remember Coach is simply "subhuman" if you ask me). If you wanted creature comforts guaranteed, you would fly point to point (also subhuman; but with that, in six hours or less it's "over and done") and would stay at "three stars" (a major brand chain above their "econobrand" offering; i.e. for Marriott; Courtyard and up, but not Fairfield) or higher.
To Mr. Vincent, do you think you need an additional wristwatch beyond that you normally wear? Further, I seem to be on an overnight train every year (mostly Auto Train) and I'm not about to carry all that stuff. If you must, an Advil PM or other med with small amount of Diphenhydramine will do wonders for you (the kids; what do they care?).
And finally, about a need for a "shot"; even though I've never traveled about with small children (never married in this life; maybe the next), I can understand a reluctance in the Diner as it falls on you to "keep 'em in check". However in the confines of your Bedroom, why not? Even though when on Auto Train, there is all "the comp" you can responsibility drink, I find what Amtrak sells "by the half" (US$15) to be quite drinkable. The Sleeper Attendant will even fetch it for you (h/sh/e'd like a tip). But it should be noted that away from AT, I "pack my own".
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Thankyou, Gilbert. I can say, I will be travelling with none of those things. We've slept on enough sleepers to know that they move about, are a bit cranky and bash into each other at the various stops when decoupling and coupling up. I've never known sleep be a problem :-)It would appear that my children sleep well on trains :-)
And, yes, you are right. I am doubly cautious about my son (he is autistic... hence the fascination with trains)... I can cope with any 'looks' if we are doing everything 'whiter than white'... but it looks bad if He's guzzling coke and I'm on the wine ;-)
I do appreciate all your posts and advice. While we are very excited about it, the more prepared I can be, the better.
Kacy x
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
You will see the evidence of the Continental Divide as you head westward. Prior the Moffat Tunnel, all the streams and rivers you follow flow in the opposite direction of the train as it gains elevation. These flow into the rivers that empty into the Gulf of Mexico (Atlantic).
Immediately after emerging from the tunnel's west portal, the train follows rushing streams and the Colorado River for over 200 miles. These flow in the direction the train is going and empty into the Pacific.
The 6 mile long Moffat Tunnel is the highest point on Amtrak at 9,239 feet. This is probably higher than the Canadian ever gets (I think only around 4,000 feet). In order to finance the building of this tunnel, it was built in conjunction with a parallel tunnel to bring water from the western side of the Continental Divide (where there is more precipitation) to supply Denver on the eastern side.
Along the Colorado River you will see many rafters who salute the passing of the train in unusual ways.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Karen, even if considerably more cramped than an Amtrak counterpart, I found that 1986 vintage Mk III Sleeper carriages rode quite well. After all, the UK's rail system (f/k/a British Railways) is all about passenger trains; freight is an ancillary sideline.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Oh!!! Well, the tickets are booked and the kids are excited. The little ones will sleep well regardless. Harry is happiest on a train :-) I guess the girls can catch up on sleep at our layovers and chalk it up to a once in a lifetime experience :-)
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
I'm the sort of person that would be kept awake by annoying squeaks but apart from maybe using a spare T-shirt to wedge something closed/open, I've never used duct tape or clips.
The jointed track prevalent in many places can either be an annoyance or a lulling sensation. Staggered jointed track is worse (the joints in the rails aren't parallel but staggered halfway along the opposite rail) resulting in a swaying effect to match the clickety-clack.
At the risk of overloading you with unnecessary items, a radio scanner might be of interest. This is not a standard radio but most hand-held ones look a bit like walkie-talkies - though they are receive only. The engineer and conductor, and engineer and dispatcher (signaller) talk to each other on specific channels (frequencies) which can be interesting. The "talking defect detectors" every 10-50 miles often announce your train's speed as you go past, again, on a particular channel. You can hear the types of transmissions on this website: railroadradio.net though these are from static receivers, not moving trains.
Posted by Ira Slotkin (Member # 81) on :
Hey Kacy:
I live in Denver, five minutes from the Amtrak station. I'd be pleased to meet you and your kids while you pass through town. I am guessing you'll have both hands full, still wanted to make the offer of a hello and brief meeting if time allows.
Otherwise - best wishes for a fabulous trip.
FYI - I have traveled in sleepers with my kids starting at age 2 (now 10 and 15) and have been fine w/o the clips and tape.
720 855 9232 720 218 4232 (cellular)
Ira
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Ira, let us know if you meet up with Kacy and her family. Not sure if it's such a wise thing to post your phone nos. in plain text like that, though. I might have opted for PM's.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Hmmm -- maybe a poem will come out of this -- "The Trackside Meeting of Ira and Kacy"
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Ira, It would be lovely to meet up. I plan to meet up with another member also, who I have spoken to via PM.
I will store your numbers, but I do agree it might not be wise to post personal numbers. I am not inclinded to post mine, even though I appreciate I have posted my itinerary.
Does anyone have a good way of determining the miles we will do on the trains?
Kacy x
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
inclined.. I cannot spell!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
While the mileages shown in the Amtrak timetables that are available in both print and web are good enough for most of us, they are not for the mileage collectors such as Mr. Guenzler, who want to measure every backup move and every detour.
Prior to your journey, why not order up the Amtrak System Timetable. Not sure if they will send it postpaid overseas, but there is one way to find out:
Regarding VIA, their print and web timetables do not report mileage, however, from Canadian National timetables in my collection, I can report that the Vancouver-Toronto mileage is 2782.5 miles. VIA further does not include timetables at their "order publications" page, but then I should defer to others with more knowledge of that outfit than I have.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by KacyB: Does anyone have a good way of determining the miles we will do on the trains?
There used to be a website called Miletrak - I found a version here but I can't work out how to actually do anything. Maybe it's non-functional.
The other way is to simply use the Amtrak timetables which list mileage.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Prior to your journey, why not order up a System Timetable. Not sure if they will send it postpaid overseas, but there is one way to find out:
They certainly used to but that was several years ago I last ordered one.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Karen, I ordered an Amtrak System Timetable on- line, and they mistakenly sent me two of them along with other vacation/promotional brochures. If you can't obtain one any other way, PM me your mailing address and I'll get one to you by snail-mail.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Considering that at the Amtrak web page I linked, they seem to have foreign country listed, it is likely that will ship the publications postpaid anywhere.
However, suggest adequate lead time, for what if your parcel ends up being sent "surface". While "surface" mail is often airlifted, it can end up on a ship, in which case the term snail mail would be quite applicable.
Remember the days when people traveling would send "postcards" to friends back home usually with some trite message saying "having a great time" (truth being optional), and the sender would return from the journey long before the postcard arrived. Happened to me on enough occasions back in my traveling days.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
I always beat my postcards home. But this is largely due to the fact I send them on the way to the airport home (last holiday, I actually left them with our host to post for us after our departure) so I cannot blame the postal service :-) Sometimes, I have actually posted them from the UK.
I like postcards tho... They are bit like a photographic time capsule. I guess they are losing popularity in an age of digital photos and facebook etc., but there is something so lovely about a postcard. Maybe it's because I have several relatives who have still managed to bypass the internet that I like sending them so much.
If OK, Ocala Mike, I will DM you my details and get you to post the schedules.
I would like to thankyou all for the help, advice, support and friendship that has been offered here. I started this 'journey' in a bid to help my son. Where we are now is a journey that will see all 4 children cross a continent coast to coast - actually experiencing the various cities enroute. A holiday we will never forget.
I guess I will bug you with random questions from now until July, so my apologies are duly given. But I cannot thank you enough for the help already provided.
Kacy. x
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Kacy and Gil -- I just checked the VIA web site, and you are right, Gil -- they no longer show mileages. Not that long ago, they did show mileages in their timetables, but of course the distances were in kilometers, not miles.
Kacy -- if you use the AMTRAK timetables to determine your miles traveled, remember that the mileages in the AMTRAK timetable are only "approximate," and I have found out that they are really not very accurate in most cases.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Done, Karen; in the "post" tomorrow.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: Kacy -- if you use the AMTRAK timetables to determine your miles traveled, remember that the mileages in the AMTRAK timetable are only "approximate," and I have found out that they are really not very accurate in most cases.
I once saw a timetable that had different mileages between a pair of stations for the same physical train - I think it was the Sunset Limited and the Texas Eagle in Texas!
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Geoff, I could be wrong on this, but some Amtrak trains follow different alignments "directionally" on certain routes. Think "one-way streets," so there could certainly be different mileages between two station pairs depending on the direction of travel.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike: Geoff, I could be wrong on this, but some Amtrak trains follow different alignments "directionally" on certain routes. Think "one-way streets," so there could certainly be different mileages between two station pairs depending on the direction of travel.
Understood but in this case the train was one physical block between those stations, with no directional running west of San Antonio, and with the schedules oriented with LA at the bottom!
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
I've seen AMTRAK timetables where the mileage is different for two different trains which follow the same route in the same direction (like the Coast Starlight, CZ, and Capitols going the same direction between Emeryville and Sacramento or something similar), in the same timetable.
I thought maybe in some cases, 2 different trains might take 2 slightly different route alignments through say, a yard or something, but those differences are always way less than one mile.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
OcalaMike - Thankyou! The information arrived today. I will send a little train gift by return.
Kacy. x
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
You're quite welcome, Karen. Glad the "post" is still that efficient. You may have heard that our Postal Service is in dire financial straits, and announced today that there will no longer be regular mail deliveries on Saturdays beginning in August. Seems the internet is ruining their business model (if they ever had one).
Hard to believe that in my lifetime, I have witnessed the almost total demise of US passenger rail and may be witnessing the same for the US mail.
I believe your adventure is scheduled for July, so please keep us all up to date here on it.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Ocala Mike - there is a little gift for your GS winging it's way to the USA tomorrow morning :-)
Also, I'd like to ask any Portlanders (or West Coast folk who know Portland!):
Where should I take my little girl for her 4th birthday. That is where we will be on the actual day and it's possibly the only place I don't have any firm plans.
Something girlie, preferably involving chocolate!, would be fab..
Any ideas? For this one day: NO TRAINS!!! :-)
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
Try the Portland Children's Museum. It's on the Red & Blue light rail lines and the Museum is next to Washington Park Zoo. There's a miniature train that runs through the zoo if you need to get a choo-choo fix.
Most of Portland's attractions are close to transit and TriMet sells adult day passes for $5. Kids under the age of 7 ride free with an adult.
Posted by feveredwthesunset (Member # 4713) on :
A few comments:
"my kids really would like to go gold prospecting."
I assume you mean panning for gold, not hacking at a mountainside with pickaxes. <g> Just some words of warning: I did gold-panning in Alaska and my experience was that this is an activity that sounds appealing but the reality is disappointing. Even when they "salt" your sample with gold dust so you will have something to find, you slosh away for half an hour to an hour and have only a few tiny specks of gold to show for it. As an adult, it was interesting for about a minute and then I was ready to move on to something else. Most young children would quickly grow frustrated with this activity. Of course, you know your kids and if they're really determined to do this maybe they will be OK with it.
"If you need anything more 'train' in the Denver area, there is also the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, CO...... roughly one third of the way from Denver to Georgetown and Silver Plume."
On April 26th the Denver transit agency will open a new light rail line (the West Rail Line) from Denver to Golden, so you will be able to take a train most of the way to the train museum. I believe the connecting bus (#17) to the museum from the current Golden transit center only runs Monday through Friday, but they may add more service once the light rail line opens. The home page for the Denver Regional Transit District is http://www.rtd-denver.com/. Of course if you stop there going to or from your steam ride you will have a car and won't have to worry about buses.
This light rail line opening is good timing for you, but I cannot begin to say how very aggravating it is for me I as have to go to Denver in March so I will not be able to ride on the new line.
Also in Golden is the Colorado School of Mines, which is internationally famous in the mining community. They have a Geology Museum (http://www.mines.edu/Geology_Museum) which might be an acceptable consolation prize if you decide not to take your kids gold-panning, though I don't think the museum is specifially oriented to children.
"You will see the evidence of the Continental Divide as you head westward. Prior the Moffat Tunnel, all the streams and rivers you follow flow in the opposite direction of the train as it gains elevation. These flow into the rivers that empty into the Gulf of Mexico (Atlantic).
"Immediately after emerging from the tunnel's west portal, the train follows rushing streams and the Colorado River for over 200 miles. These flow in the direction the train is going and empty into the Pacific."
You do indeed see the trackside streams flowing east on the east side of the tunnel and west on the west side. On the west side, though, the streams mostly become the Colorado River which once emptied into the Gulf of California/Sea of Cortez which is an arm of the Pacific Ocean. It no longer does this because all its water is pumped out for various water projects before it reaches the sea.
East of Reno you will come upon another trackside river flowing east which would seem to give the lie to the Continental Divide. However, the Truckee River, which begins as the outlet to Lake Tahoe and is fed by snowmelt from the Sierra Nevada Mountains, empties into neither the Altantic nor the Pacific Oceans. It empties into Pyramid Lake in the Nevada desert, where its water both evaporates and sinks into the ground. Pyramid Lake has no outlet. So the Truckee flows from a lake to another lake, never to see the sea.
Volunteers from the California State Railroad Museum board the train in Reno and do a good commentary over the P.A. system between Reno and Sacramento on the scenery and local history. Sometimes the commentary is audible in the sleepers and sometimes you have to go to the lounge car to hear it.
As for Portland, I grew up in Oregon but we went to San Francisco, not Portland, when we wanted an urban vacation so I don't know what there is to do for kids there. It is a much smaller urban area than either San Francisco or Seattle so there are fewer attractions. Here's a link to a site called "Portland, OR: 50 Things to Do With Kids Before They Grow Up" that might be helpful: http://alphamom.com/family-fun/activities/portland-oregon-50-things-to-do-with-kids-before-they-grow-up/.
Re the itinerary from Portland, OR to Vancouver, BC (there is a Vancouver, WA across the Columbia River from Portland, also on the Cascades route, which can be confusing): Your plan seems to be to go straight from Portland to Vancouver with no layover in Seattle. I do not recommend this. The only frequency from Portland to Vancouver that is all-train (no transfer to a bus in Seattle) leaves Portland at 14:50 and arrives in Vancouver at 22:50. That schedule makes it very difficult to enjoy the beautiful scenery north of Seattle where the tracks run right along Puget Sound, because the setting sun will be shining right into your eyes as you're trying to look west at the Sound. (You do not see this scenery from the bus as the highway is somewhat inland, out of sight of the Sound for the most part.) Also, you will be arriving into Vancouver and getting settled into your hotel very late. I suggest that you ride one of the Cascades trains from Portland to Seattle the day before, stay overnight in Seattle, and then take the 7:40 train from Seattle to Vancouver the next day. Then you have the sun on the east side of the train, you arrive into Vancouver at a convenient hour, and you are breaking up the "chair car" rides into shorter segments. An eight-hour ride with no sleeper room to retreat to may seem very long, to your daughter at least. If you do the Seattle layover I do not recommend trying to take the Coast Starlight train from Portland to Seattle. It's a long distance train so it can arrive into Portland very late which will mean a late arrival into Seattle. Stick with the Cascades trains for that leg; they're much more reliable. If you take the 8:30 train you will get to Seattle at noon which will give you time to do something in the afternoon. Again, Seattle is a bigger city than Portland and you will have no trouble finding a family-friendly activity for the afternoon.
I do realize my suggestion to lay over in Seattle may not be practical because you have to balance time, money, and your daughter's birthday in all this. If leaving Portland a day early to allow a layover in Seattle means you have to travel on her birthday, she may not go for that if you have promised no trains on her birthday.
A general suggestion for traveling with kids on long-distance trains: Amtrak makes periodic servicing stops where passengers can get off and stretch their legs. I would make use of all of these, at least in the daytime, to give your kids a chance to run around a little and work off some energy. OTOH, sometimes even if you try to go to the diner between servicing stops, there are unexpected delays and you are in the dining car eating a meal when you get to a servicing stop. I would prepare your kids for this possibility so it doesn't come as an unpleasant surprise that they aren't going to be able to get off the train. You might think up some car-type game to play to distract them when this happens, like watching the passengers walking by outside the window and counting how many people walk by with red shirts vs. blue shirts, etc. -- you know the sort of thing.
Another life-on-the-train suggestion: If you have a device that plays audio books definitely bring that loaded with books so you can look out the window and read at the same time, while your kids are watching a DVD or playing video games. I like bringing books set in the areas I will be visiting on the trip. (Young children tend to quickly tire of scenery, even beautiful scenery, unless there is something active to look at like wild animals. You will likely see some deer and elk but they will be few and far between; wild animals aren't crazy about trains and tend to avoid the tracks.) For the mountain scenery, the lounge car is definitely best because the western mountains are steep. Often you have a solid rock wall on one side of the train and steep dropoff on the other side with a beautiful view. The "good" side changes throughout the day as the train goes back and forth across canyons and from one canyon into another. In the lounge car you have a good view out both sides of the train plus above due to the wraparound glass. However, you are traveling at the busy time of year when the lounge car fills up and there are more passengers wanting seats than there are seats available. At that time of year you want to be seated in the lounge car before the train leaves Denver. Then at some point you have to have lunch and you lose your seat then. (You can't just save a seat all day -- use it or lose it, except for restroom breaks.)
Young children soon get restless and want to play games instead of looking at the scenery and it really isn't fair to take up a lounge car seat when it's crowded if you aren't looking at the scenery. I would settle in your bedroom instead of the lounge car. When the "good" side is on your side of the train, fine; when the "good" side is on the ohter side you can stand in the doorway to the room and look out the corridor windows. The scenery through the Rockies is beautiful; if your kids have games or movies they find especially absorbing I would save them for that day so you can enjoy the views!
Life-off-the-train suggestion: Your kids will be cooped up on the train a lot on this trip and though kid's museums can be fun they may tire of museums on the stopovers and just want some time to play. You can search the web for public parks in the cities you will be visiting to find some parks with a good variety of playground equipment that your kids would enjoy. Also, here in San Francisco you can take the N-Judah Muni Metro light rail train to the beach. Make sure the kids understand the water is very cold, though, even in July (Alaska current - brrr!) so it isn't good for swimming. Bring sweaters, too, because the air is also often cold at the beach. This isn't Southern California! You will see surfers out in their wetsuits, though, and people do wade in the surf.
Climate notes: Washington will be hot and humid in July. New York and Chicago may be hot and humid. Denver will probably be hot but not humid. San Francisco can be warm and pleasant or cool and foggy in July, or both at once depending on whether you are on the ocean or the bay side of the city. Be sure to bring sweaters (jumpers?) so you aren't cold. Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver will likely be warm and pleasant but could be hot, especially in Portland. Bring hats and sunscreen!
This has been an long post and perhpas more advice than you really wanted, but hey -- you did say you were looking for advice!
It sounds like you have a wonderful trip planned. I think you and the kids will have a great time!
Laura
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
About the Portland to Vancouver part of your itinerary....
Be sure you are booked to Vancouver BC Canada (VAC), not Vancouver WA (VAN). The train will stop at both stations but you won't find VAN as interesting as VAC.
As a longtime Seattle resident I encourage you to stop and spend some time in our city if it fits your itinerary. But if it's inconvenient, come see us next time you're passing through. Portland and Vancouver (BC) are also great places to visit. If you take train 516 you'll get a 30 minute stopover in Seattle--take a walk through the station and up the hopefully-just-reopened-staircase to Jackson St. and start making plans for your next journey.
In July the sun sets after 900pm so you will still be able to view the spectacular scenery along Puget Sound without trouble. The sun will set about the time you leave Bellingham and you should get to see a great sunset (weather permitting) on your ride across the border into Canada.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Thanks for all the advice. It is much appreciated!
I have a few 'operational' questions... How likely am I to get pre packed / sealed kids food through customs? Harry is a notoriously fussy eater (think it's sensory / autism related) and to make sure he eats fruit, I want to bring pureed fruit (bought, long life and sealed) - enough for our trip)... am I likely to get those through your customs?
Also, one thing that is missing from our trip is a visit to a national park... but I have 4 free days in NYC before we return home. Which would be the best place to visit (preferably by train, but not compulsory) - I think maybe Jamaica Bay??
I'm afraid the itinerary is sorted and we are merely passing through Seattle
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
Canned fruit should be acceptable. Just be sure to declare all your food items at Customs.
Also, sorry we won't be seeing you in Seattle.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
It is a pity, Vincent. The more I research this trip, the more places I want to stop off at!!
I have to admit that my eyes have been opened! One thing many Europeans 'laugh' at about Americans, is that so many Americans don't hold passports, but - having really got into it - I can see why.... The place is just so flipping vast!!I couldn't travel more than 200 miles in any direction without passing into another country (OK,I don't need a passport for Scotland - but they'd like me to!! haha!) . But France, Ireland and Holland would all require documentation (i.e. passport) The other thing is that Americans - when they come to England - always say that things are so small.. but you know, they ARE!!! Americans must be so taken with the tinyness of the UK as much as Brits are taken with the sheer scale of the USA - but, being British and all... we never actually admit being in awe ;-)
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by KacyB: How likely am I to get pre packed / sealed kids food through customs?
Actually the problem will be at the UK end - I'm pretty sure those fruit pouches are bigger than the size allowed through security. However, you probably could buy them airside (both Heathrow and Gatwick have airports attached to their shopping malls). From a quick read, such fruit pouches don't need to be declared as they're processed food, as opposed to raw fruit bearing nasty insects, for example. But it wouldn't hurt to declare them as it's better than a fine if it was discovered and not declared.
As for buying them in the US, anywhere that sells baby food including drugstores like CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreens etc.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Oh, and your extra days in NY? It's not a national park but take the subway to Coney Island. Head to the front of the train so the kids can see out the front (assuming those trains do have forward views for the passengers - some do, some don't).
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Kacy -- I don't remember your detailed itinerary, but the closest National Park to New York is probably the Adirondacks, but that would require at least one or two extra days to take the Adirondack (train) from NYP to Saratoga Springs or Whitehall or somewhere (there are many choices), then you would need to either rent a car or find some kind of public transportation into the Park itself, however I would defer any additional discussion of upstate new York to Ms. Sojourner.
Closer to New York, even though it is not a national park, are the Hudson River Palisades, which are on the NJ side of the Hudson across from Manhattan. You should be able to find public transportation from mid-town Manhattan over to the Palisades. Are you, like many of us here, old enough to remember the song "Palisades Park" by Freddy Cannon? (I'm sure Mr. GBN could come up with a You Tube video of the song in an eyeblink!)
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Hi Kacy, welcome to America. You'll have fun with your kids here. While New York certainly has plenty to keep you occupied for 4 days, how about a short 90 minute train trip to Philadelphia. You'll get to see Amtrak's magnificent 30th St. station. Then take the kids to Independence Hall National Park. I'm sure as a U.K. resident you'll find it interesting to see how we view the war for independence. We took our boys when they were young and they certainly enjoyed it. Philly also has lots of other interesting museums and you'll get a ride on the higher speed (but not up to British standards) northeast corridor. If you want to pay a little more, check out the HSR Acela train.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
quote:Originally posted by KacyB:
Ocala Mike - there is a little gift for your GS winging it's way to the USA tomorrow morning :-)
:-)
Just got it today; thanks so much!!!
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
quote:If there's one city in the States that wouldn't be surprised you travelled by train, it's Portland. Defiantly alternative, eco-loving, anti-commercial, this is the place that sports a famous piece of graffiti demanding "KEEP PORTLAND WEIRD". Its citizens pioneered the food-cart scene, invented egg-and-bacon ice cream, spurn cars for bicycles and treat the coffee bean with cultish devotion. Yes, it's ripe for satire – as evidenced by TV show Portlandia, which spoofs their earnest efforts – but there are people who like that sort of thing, and one of them is me.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Egg-and-bacon ice cream?
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
And a happy April 1st to you too Henry!
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Er... not that I know of! I would hazard a guess that Brits might have heard of Portland, Maine for a well known horror author, but not Portland, Oregon. Let alone place either Portland, OR or Oregon itself on a map.
Posted by KacyB (Member # 52680) on :
Thankyou, GBN... I couldn't find this topic!!
Can't believe we are so close to 'coming to America' now!!!!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Best for their sakes, and everyone eles's, a private room is a must! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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