Took the California Zephyr from Denver to Sacramento on Sunday, Feb. 22. I wanted to see Denver Union Station since it was refurbished. Very nice, but more of a mall for upscale restaurants and bars than a railroad station. Took advantage of the lower rates available on Saturday nights to stay at the very convienient ( but expensive ) Crawford Hotel in the station. For breakfast, the Snooze AM Eatery is great.
It was snowing heavily on the first day, so visibility in the Rockies was not good. The only delay encountered during the trip was due to a broken rail a few miles South of Winnemucca ( detected by UP's electronic track monitoring system ). A UP track inspector drove out from Winnemucca, and "walked the train" over the break.
Very surprised at the lack of snow in the California Sierras. I was pleased to find one nice improvement at the Sacramento station - a new crosswalk over I Street, which makes it easier to get to the Vagabond Inn.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Thanks for the report.
One question which you might know the answer to - "UP's electronic track monitoring system" - was that ultrasound (usually a specially fitted car with high speed measuring equipment) or literally a track circuit break? Most advocates for track circuits claim the ability to detect broken rails but in reality track circuits detect a quite low percentage of breaks.
Posted by RussM (Member # 3627) on :
From what the conductor said, it is a system which checks the continuity of the rails between signals. Apparently it worked pretty well in this instance, as it didn't take them long to find the location. A repair crew went to work after we passed the break. We had to proceed at reduced speed to the next signal, and then resumed normal speed.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
One movement each way each day. If the building is going to be economically viable, it needs something other than the railroad to do business.
Even in the day, railroads had lots of side budinesses in their facilities. See also Fred Harvey and KC Union Station. See also all the other uses of KC Union Station now, since there are only 6 passenger movements a day.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Geoff: I am very surprised by your "track circuits detect a quite low percentage of breaks" statement. I had the impression that breaks in track having signals were normally detected by the signal system.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Thanks Russ good to see a trip report again. Restaurants and watering holes can actually add to the station (but not retail shops to the extent in Washington where the current waiting room appears to be an after thought). But I do hope the main waiting room was only resorted, not 'improved'.
I commented on the website for the planned renovations to 30th st. station in Phila. They responded that they are looking at Denver as a possible model but stated that the main waiting room there would be left essentially as it is.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
30th St Philadelphia is a different case. High traffic density!
One movement each way per day (plus whatever portion of the ski train is still going) means not much need for seating.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Geoff: I am very surprised by your "track circuits detect a quite low percentage of breaks" statement. I had the impression that breaks in track having signals were normally detected by the signal system.
I was attending a PTC event last year and this was reported by one of the speakers who worked for one of the bigger RRs. I asked him about it because it intrigued me too. He said breaks needed a clean pull-apart, and they find many more breaks which are not complete breaks, thus completing the track circuit, but which are nevertheless unsafe for full line speed.
The Metro North derailment last year (?) involved a broken joint bar (joining two rails, in this case of different sizes, together). Not mentioned in the report was whether the joint was bonded with separate wires - most would be. If it was bonded then this type of break wouldn't be detected either.
I'm guessing that in hot weather breaks are slightly less likely detectable than in cold weather as the rails are in less tension, thus more likely to still touch if broken.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by RussM: From what the conductor said, it is a system which checks the continuity of the rails between signals. Apparently it worked pretty well in this instance, as it didn't take them long to find the location. A repair crew went to work after we passed the break. We had to proceed at reduced speed to the next signal, and then resumed normal speed.
That does sound like a track circuit failure detecting it then. Though finding it quickly intrigues me - maybe luck, maybe it was a short track circuit.
Posted by RussM (Member # 3627) on :
Below is a link to two photos taken at Denver Union Station on Feb. 21, 2015. The first shows the new waiting room, and the second shows the view of the platforms at night, as seen from my room in the Crawford Hotel.
All told, it would appear that Denver "did OK" with the renovation of DUS to a multi modal and mixed use facility.
Why Amtrak didn't bail out of bearing the full cost under 4.4 of the 71 Agreement escapes me along about when they did at Cincinnati and Richmond. Possibly the railroad owners of DUTCO knew that they would not even have "half a loaf" so better come to the table. After all, how would an Amshack, say, out near Irondale (on BNSF five miles to the East of town) sound? The back up moves could have been avoided.
Posted by dns8560 (Member # 15184) on :
How about by-passing Denver altogether? Denver could bring back its ski train, but then also extend it to connect in Provo, with a section up the Royal Gorge too. Then the CZ could instead go from Julesburg or Greeley to Cheyenne, restoring service otherwise to places like Sydney, Wellington, Hanna, and Kemmerer.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geoff Mayo: involved a broken joint bar (joining two rails, in this case of different sizes, together). Not mentioned in the report was whether the joint was bonded with separate wires
"joining two rails of different sizes" These things are called compromise bars or compromise joint bars in the US and joggled fishplates in British railway language.