Will Iowa Pacific be on the job July 1 or no?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Well I guess the other Hoosier State topic got off topic with mention of musical instruments, equines, and $70 taxicab ripoffs.
To look at the website for a July Wednesday CHI departure would suggest no change. But with any politically driven change, which is simply conservative Indiana saying "if we have to pay for this train, we're gonna kick those Washington libbies out of it". Saving $$$ is the least of concern.
I'm not saying "never happen" as I continue to with All Aboard Florida, but I think the July deadline will come and go.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Hi GBN -
And the other Hoosier State thread hadn't been updated in 3 weeks or so. The silence coming out of the Hoosier State about the Hoosier State is deafening!
My summer is getting filled up with other stuff already and it looks like holding a three-day stretch open to ride a cheap dome car out of Indianapolis won't be necessary after all!
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Sounds like most are optimistic it will start July 1 but with federal inspections, who knows?
I think with the money IP has already invested in this operation, they will do what it takes to be in compliance. I did see one comment from them: "Iowa Pacific team is very excited for the start of Hoosier State and we hope to show the general public how train travel is supposed to be!"
I remain optimistic and, since GBN brought up politics, I find it ironic that if it begins operation it will be done with a Republican state administration's full support, including funding.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
quote: Ellis said he made the decision to pull the staffing resources he had working to bring passenger rail service to Oklahoma in order to focus on Indiana. “Indiana is moving along,” Ellis said. “We are trying to get that one done before we do anything else. Indiana we hope to get done this summer.”
Wise decision, in my opinion.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
If October of a couple of years ago is anything to go by, where I was booked on the first cancelled service, then I wouldn't be surprised if people waiting in the dungeons of Indianapolis station find out just at boarding time whether it'll be Amtrak, IP, an AmBus, or nothing at all.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Summer is coming Palmland and I hope to have the time to be more active here again...... also moving into the last phases of settling my Mom's estate and hope to wrap that up by August. I've just been distracted for the last year or so.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Referring to the quotation Mr. Vincent immediately captioned, it appears that the "slip" is starting.
"We hope to get done this Summer" is not exactly saying the service begins effective July 1.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Agreed...... if July 1 were happening, I would think that it would have been announced by now.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Don Kalkman shared his photo of a test run Sunday of the equipment for the Hoosier State. Ed Ellis, when asked if all approvals have been received for July 1 start responded:
"Getting close. Not quite there yet." Apparently the FRA running test is all that's left to do, per Ellis:
"The equipment passed inspection last week (FRA, ADA, FDA, Amtrak, etc.) and before the Chicago-Indy test run we wanted to try it out at speed, make sure locomotives make transition, MU works, etc. Metra is GREAT to work with and was willing to host (at a reasonable cost) test runs on Sunday which is their lightest day, so we were able to conduct running tests prior to the FRA-required running tests."
Sounds like everyone is committed to make this happen.Some of the work done on the equipment:
"We installed forward-facing cameras at Amtrak's request, with the same data interface they use on their locos. The cars had upgrades to water systems, air conditioning, restrooms, emergency lighting/exit path, etc."
I think this will happen, whether it's July 1 or a week or two later.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Having been in Indianapolis this past weekend with my friends (he Educator, she Social Worker; both "Ready for Hillary", and she Real Estate Broker; 'we don't talk politics"), I somehow think there wasn't a soul in the Westin Hotel there other than me who knew the first thing about this saga. That includes the Hotel's Concierge staff.
I too think this will happen. It won't save the taxpayers a dime and in fact will cost them some. But their elected officials will be able to say "we put those Washington bureaucrats off our train".
No doubt, Ellis and IPH will put best foot forward, and I guess the Dome, Business Class, and Food Service will be an attraction for some. But to the average passenger, we are still looking at a train that takes 5hrs to do a run I drove in 3'20" (3'45" return account fuel stop), and leaves and arrives at hours useless to most.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
We could try to be positive and hope that IP are pro-active enough to hammer home a deal on a re-route to the IC/CN into Chicago, saving an hour on run times.
Amtrak, in the meanwhile, may have tenatively suggested invoking a feasibility study into the possibility of commissioning a study into the potential of asking CN for a re-route. By 2020 at the latest.
Cynical, moi?
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Unless I'm imagining something, I believe Mr. Norman mentioned the Peoria & Eastern for the re-route, and then deleted it. I've no idea on the feasibility of such.
However, the re-route touted as far back as 2010 (PDF: FY10 Performance Improvement Plan, Cardinal - Amtrak) is using the route of the City of New Orleans from the outskirts of Chicago to CUS. There was (yet another) report a couple of years ago that mentioned same.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
That is correct Mr.Mayo, as on second thought, I started to realize that you were addressing an interchange between the C&WI (Monon's access to Chicago) and the IC, thence access to CUS. This of course is not running via Champaign thence P & E to Indy, and therfore I deleted the posting.
Good grief, just hook the engine up and run the train!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Memo to states; don't try to kick the Feddies out of anything they don't want to be kicked out of.
This matter will be in court before any contract with a party other than Amtrak to operate Hoosier State is effected.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
What did they do? Kitbash an SD-40 short hood onto an F-40?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
If I may be allowed to summarize this matter as succinctly possible, I don't think the issue is whether or not which sector, public or private, represents a better operator of the Hoosier State. This is simply an issue between Local governments (state and municipalities served) who choose, because they are paying for it, to have a responsible private sector operator, rather than a Federal agency accountable to their "massahs 10000ft apart along Pennsylvania Ave in UNOWARE (and I don't mean Indy)", operate what they consider as "their" train. Whether it costs them more is a "non-issue" (ask me, it will).
The Federal agency, Amtrak (forget all that bovine plop about "it's private"), is fearful that this Indiana initiative is the "finger in the dike'. Other local jurisdictions that sponsor many more passenger trains than Indiana could follow suit - most vulnerable would be those governed by conservative factions. Since the Long Distance trains could be gone simply by US Congress' fiat, Amtrak could potentially, albeit far fetched, be looking at their "national system" comprising the Northeast Corridor. Just think how that scenario would play within the funding ring.
Finally, I believe Iowa Pacific Holdings has been injured as a result of this charade, and I would not be surprised if they seek legal remedies through the judiciary.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
quote:“Of course we’re eager to get going, so we were disappointed," says Iowa Pacific President Ed Ellis, who says he thinks his company could start running the trains within a matter of days after a contract is signed. But he insists it’s not Iowa Pacific holding that process up.
“We believe that ours is pretty much fully negotiated," Ellis says. "We haven’t signed it yet, because we don’t want to sign it until INDOT signs with Amtrak. But we believe that once theirs is signed, the steps involved in signing ours are really short.”
So, what is the problem? The Mayor of West Lafayette went to Washington DC to meet with Amtrak CEO Joe Boardman and the Mayor is quoted as saying:
quote:“Everybody is enthusiastic about continuing this service – that’s what’s so ironic," ... "Everybody wants this to happen. But Joe [Boardman] also brought up the fact that he said ‘Hey guys, remember – we’re basically asked to subsidize our competitors on our rails.’”
If true, that would be a very strange attitude for Mr. Boardman to take. Unless I've suddenly become unable to read accounting statements, the Hoosier State has never been profitable for Amtrak and why should Amtrak be guaranteed the right to run an inefficient operations?
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Looks like it will finally start on August 2....maybe.
Apparently all paperwork completed but a question still remains about a switch in Indianapolis between CSX and IP's servicing area.
For those who enjoy the finer things in rail travel, sounds like Mr. Ellis has the right idea:
'Iowa Pacific Holding’s president Ed Ellis tells Trains New Wire that for the first month while Amtrak incorporates new pricing into its reservation system, passengers may sit in the dome and will pay for meals and beverages served there instead of having food included in the ticket price.
“We want to give people a chance to sample our version of business class,” which will be similar to breakfasts and dinners served on Pullman Rail Journeys excursions from Chicago to New Orleans and other destinations,”
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
More from the Layfayette (IN) Journal Courier:
Hoosier State Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
851 Hoosier State CHI Arrived 36 minutes early 9:29 am Tue, Aug 4 2015 Scheduled Arrival 10:05 am
A good start! Massively overpowered as a train though, with two engines for three carriages.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From a review of the timetable, it appears that the IP Hoosier State equipment must make a deadhead move West on Mo and East on Tu; . I have now learned that the equipment is handled "dead" as part of 50-51, Cardinal's, consist. I'm sure both Amtrak and EEE were aware of this little factoid of life, wonder if INDOT was in their zeal to have an operator other than Amtrak?
850-851 likely have a crew consist of Cond and Asst as part of their assignment is 50-51, Cardinal, which requires such. Three cars, to my knowledge, can be handled by Conductor only under the Labor Agreement.
Since Mon and Tues, especially the latter, are slow days for personal travel, it is pointless to consider ways that on those days, there could be revenue runs for the IP equipment set on a complimenting schedule.
Otherwise, it appears that the equipment does "more sitting around" at Indy than anywhere else. IP has likely had to build far more of a maintenance facility there than otherwise would be needed if the equipment sat overnight and turned. Once again, EEE was certainly aware of such (come on volks; he does have an MBA in Transportation from Northwestern; so does at least one of his aide-de-camps), and built into the contract a recovery of those costs. Again was INDOT in their zeal?
One must wonder why two engines for three cars. There certainly are facilities to turn trains at CUS; one would think there also is at Indy. Since the equipment comprises a "rolling museum" and the Amtrak mechanical expertise on the F-40 based locomotives is certainly on the wane and never was on CSX away from wherever their Executrain lives, was this an Amtrak and/or CSX requirement?
Finally, who knows, maybe I'll just put some joyride "copper in Mr. Ellis' hopper". Can't do it this week, as Goldendoodle Murphy is with me. Nor next, as I'm going to Salzburg again. After I return and am "de-lagged", I just might go to Lafayette (Indianapolis is simply "too late arr and too early dep"). There is a Holiday Inn within a walk of the train station.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
And it looks like there was a Monday evening bustitution for the IP Hoosier State because the equipment wasn't out of the yard in time to deadhead to Chicago with the Cardinal.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Starbucks Salzburg HBF---
Stuff happens, including on one of the deadhead trips, as reported elsewhere, Amtrak "forgot" to handle the IP equipment.
All told, I trust that EEE only signed a contract with both Amtrak and INDOT to cover his costs. For the life of me, I fail to see how INDOT saves a dime with this charade. I think that someone just plain didn't care - they just wanted to say to the voters "we kicked Washington out".
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
I hope this project succeeds because it's an improvement over Amtrak's version of the Hoosier State, but it isn't a model for what I would like to see on other corridors. IP's incremental improvement over Amtrak's service isn't a leap into the 21st century for passenger rail transportation. In fact, it's a recreation of the failed model of the 20th century passenger rail system. If Indiana truly wants to build a meaningful passenger rail corridor between Indianapolis and Chicago, they will have to commit to significant infrastructure improvements, modern equipment and more than 4x a week service.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Ed Ellis says he wants to go from 4X/week to 12 round trips per day:
Richard
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
I'd like to see his financing plan.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Crowne Plaza Piitter Salzburg
Gottaluv the reporting in Mr. Hill's immediate link; present running time is three hours (vice five). I guess it could be driven in three depending on one's "interpretation" of the 70mph Indiana posted speed. I drive it several times a year; I need 3.5
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Google Maps reports current eatimate Chicago Union Station to Indianapolis Union Station as 3 hours 13 minutes.
Note that construction reported has Googlemaps route engine move the route from I-65 to US-52 between Lebanon and Lafayette.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Mr. Ellis hopes to increase runs by installing side tracks and upgrading CSX tracks to allow both passenger trains and freight trains to run concurrently. His estimate is $500 million. I have to wonder....Indiana balked at giving the project 3 million.
The thought is that a 2 hr trip is possible. I can't see how that can be accomplished. Could a bullet train do it?
************************************ Not related to the above.. I use Google Maps and MapQuest quite a lot. They are a lot of fun. However, I think the services seem to pick out routes which represent the absolute shortest distances, often ignoring traffic snarls and excessive turnoffs, along the way. Sometimes a route following major roads and freeways, rather than a lot of side roads, could be easier even if it represents a slight increase in driving time.
Richard
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Let's see" WISHTV, publishing date April 14, 2015
Call letters seem appropriate if this is a real station. (Is it?) Wishful thinking seems strong here. There might be business to get respectable passenger counts if the line is in place to do this, but not even sure of that. But to pay for the infrastructure to get there? Better look outside to see how much snow accumulation we have. Maybe the publication date is just a few days off and it should have been April 1.
I just don't see how there is business for 12 trains a day and even less how the track can be built to get the run time being postulated for anything that could possibly be justified. This is no where near the market that such a city pair as Dallas - Houston would be and we see how far that one has gotten so far.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
WAZE. That's my GPS.
It does a right fair job of avoiding traffic. One time, in Chicago, it had me get on the ramp road for 3 miles to bypass a traffic jam.
Yes, it's a google sub company, but you do not log on through the google single sign on. It's freestanding.
The app company is headquartered in silicon Israel Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Crowne Plaza Piitter Salzburg
WISH is the call letters for the Indianapolis CW affiliate. I would guess that they picked up the "story" of "Dreams in Ellisland" from the Lafayette outlet WLFI and aired whatever; fact checking, uh what's that?
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Talked with Ed Ellis in Alamosa, CO today. He was quite optimistic about the future of the Hoosier State but wanted to get all bugs worked out before taking on his next operation in Oklahoma. Good plan.
To show what a little marketing will do, he built a concert venue in remote mountains near Fir, CO- on the route of his Rio Grande Scenic line to LaVeta. Runs a special weekend train in addition to regular train. Today it carried 300 passengers. Build it and they will come.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
I was in Alamosa in June. There is a stunning array of vintage passenger equipment there awaiting a reason for renovation....... or to set up one heck of a museum to the American Streamliner.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
David, you do have to wonder about Ed Ellis' collection of passenger cars that are long past their prime. The Milwaukee road beaver tail observation-lounge-sleeper, Coffee Creek, was in his shop. While it looked good with its exterior primer coat, the interior had been gutted awaiting money to rebuild it. No timetable for completion.
We also did the shop tour of the Durango and Silverton railroad. Their shop was far superior in both size and types of equipment to that of both the Rio Grande Scenic and Cumbres and Toltec. But then with a passenger count of about 200k annually, they are definitely a going concern. And, when working on almost 100 year old locomotives, you don't just go to Lowes to get parts.
Ellis did have some interesting comments about working with Amtrak and passenger plans for the future.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
A quite comprehensive trip report appears elsewhere at the Trainweb site.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Good story, GBN, thanks for the link. Looking forward to your report on it.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Be interesting to see if the service is sustainable. Any running time improvements or increased frequencies are a long way away.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Now that the train has had time to bed down a little, what's happening with the equipment deadheading to/from Beech Grove? I was told while at Beech Grove a couple of years ago that they try to use the Hoosier State rather than the Cardinal as the latter involves shunting betwen the yard and Indianapolis station to deal with the Cardinal, wheras the Hoosier they could do all the preparation within the yard.
But with IP running the Hoosier, do they still use that?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Effective Oct 2, the free Dome ride is over, as on that day, Business Class will be offered. For ready information, on October 9 #850 CHI-LAF in Value Coach is presently $29 and Business Class is $58.
There remains no notice whatsoever at the website that the service has been contracted out.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: .....There remains no notice whatsoever at the website that the service has been contracted out.
If Amtrak was interesting in increasing revenue they would add a link to this. Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Trains.com reported today that a third coach has been added to the Hoosier State. While there have been reports of full trains, according to Trains, this was intended to add capacity that will force a lower price bucket. At present, Amtrak's price is less because the Cardinal has more coaches/capacity which results in a lower price bucket.
I guess they are trying to determine if price is a factor in ridership Amtrak vs. IP. This would level the playing field (and give more room for IP passengers at a lower price). I would think Amtrak could just adjust the price buckets on the Cardinal to have the same effect.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by palmland: I would think Amtrak could just adjust the price buckets on the Cardinal to have the same effect.
Would that not be collusion/price fixing? I don't know whether it would be with a complicated relationship/sharing between the companies, as opposed to (say) AA and DL offering the exact same fares between the same city pair.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
It is complicated, Geoff since all pricing is done via Amtrak's system with their data and software. And, is it price fixing if the price is lowered?
It would be nice if there was a clean break and the Hoosier State ran 7 days a week. Amtrak could then adjust the Cardinal so that it offered the best schedule to serve other points rather than being committed to the present times at Indianapolis.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by palmland: And, is it price fixing if the price is lowered?
Taking that question on its own, out of context, it's a bit of a grey area and probably depends. For example, a trick some stores use is to put something on sale when in fact the sale price is more like the regular price, but the original regular price was artificially raised for a period of time. Customer sees big SALE! stickers and buys it, thinking it's a bargain.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Unconfirmed, but there are reports at other sites that Iowa Pacific is in serious financial trouble and may petition for bankruptcy protection.
Apparently the difficulty that their Polar Express employees had to get paid could have been the "tip of the iceberg".
Regardless of the possible bankruptcy, Amtrak "is ready to go" March 1 and plans to assign Horizon Coaches and possibly the Dome Car 10031, subject to other commitments for the car. However, it is a safe assumption that the full service dining is a "goner".
That is indeed sad news. But i guess the hand writing has been on the wall for a while.
My first inkling that all might not be what we were led to believe was a trip to Alamosa last year. We arranged a tour of his shops. This was billed as his system overhaul and restoration for his growing fleet of well used but classic passenger cars. I was not impressed. Two guys were working amid a long string of cars needing work. The 'big' shop was a prefab building with a dirt floor.
But give Ellis credit - he tried to bring back passenger train travel as it once was and has many great tourist operations. Our trip on his Rio Grande Scenic was outstanding. And, while we did not ride it, his Pullman service to New Orleans appeared to be as good as the Panama Ltd.
But all this is hard to do in the 21st century, without very deep pockets. He has the right ideas and dreams but needs a good COO/CFO to keep him grounded. I do feel better with Moorman at the helm that the new Amtrak version of the Hoosier will be better run and marketed than the Boardman version.
Strictly a rumor at this point, but other railfan discussion have talked about Amtrak using three Amtrak western routes this summer as the test for the long discussed experiment to outsource the service to a private entity. I can't imaging why, but one of those interested was purported to be Marriott. If so, I assume it would be strictly for on board operations and Amtrak would continue to provide equipment and T&E crews.
Also in the news is that Hunter Harrison of IC/CP/CN notoriety is in the running to be hired by CSX as their President. It may be great for stock holders, but CSX and, I suspect, Amtrak trains on CSX, would be in for big changes - maybe not all good.
These are interesting times.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by palmland:
Strictly a rumor at this point, but other railfan discussion have talked about Amtrak using three Amtrak western routes this summer as the test for the long discussed experiment to outsource the service to a private entity. I can't imaging why, but one of those interested was purported to be Marriott. If so, I assume it would be strictly for on board operations and Amtrak would continue to provide equipment and T&E crews.
**************************************
I think that would be steering the helm in the right direction. I think something other than Amtrak crews would be best. I would like to see an independent train, with sleepers, along either the Empire Builder or Zephyr route, to Montana or Colorado. Marriott or any of the hotel chains would be great.
Richard
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
.Amtrak will take over the Hoosier State passenger-rail service from Iowa Pacific Holdings starting March 1, the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) announced yesterday.
Iowa Pacific has operated the state train under an agreement with INDOT and Amtrak since July 2015. The railroad company "notified INDOT that it would soon be unable to continue providing passenger train equipment and onboard services under the terms of the existing contract," INDOT spokesman Will Wingfield said in an email.
"INDOT and Iowa Pacific came to mutual agreement to transition the service between Feb. 28 and March 1," he said.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
A couple of questions:
Will Amtrak keep the Hoosier State schedule @ 4x/week?
Any chance that dropping Iowa Pacific could mean that Amtrak might eventually make the Cardinal a daily train?
Richard
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From CasaTequila Boca Raton (adjacent to Holiday Inn; Boca Raton)
Three TV's in the bar -all tuned to soccer.
Mr A. Richard Hill (should not have used your HAM call sign at that photo site if you didn't want to be outed), I doubt that other than VP Pence wants to return some "bacon", and The Donald concurs, to home state. Indiana must pay for the 4x service, and a Daily Cardinal would relieve IN from that obligation.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Yep, I'm WA6ZFM. Had I lived during the golden era of passenger trains, I would have loved to have been a railroad telegraph operator. When I first got my license, I talked to a few fellow hams who had, in their youth, jobs as railroad telegraph operators. They mentioned that it wasn't easy to copy code using those old sound boxes.
Back around 1970, I once rode the Burlington-Northern passenger train from Montana to Seattle. I ventured into the club car for a cup of coffee. One of the attendants somehow determined that my last name was "Hill". He asked if I was related to James J. Hill. Just for fun I replied "yes". His eyes got as big as saucers! I was hoping they would give me a free meal in the dining car or, at least, a free cup of coffee for being James J's kin.
Richard
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
It would appear that the IPH Hoosier State 850 made its final run on Sunday:
Iowa Pacific chose to end its involvement in the Hoosier State service because the company is "reducing marginal business units to focus on its core business," Iowa Pacific President Ed Ellis said in an email last month
Gotta wonder what is their core business.
Let's see how long the Dome Car and table Dining service that Progressive Railroading notes will last.
Addendum: 850 (27) and 851 (28) were the final IPH runs.
I think it's safe to say Ed Ellis has great ideas and understands how good passenger rail travel can be. But, a good business man he is not.
It seems that IP spins off its profitable freight railways (Arizona Eastern and Perminan basin operations) to finance some of their marginal tourist ventures. After he pays off bills, I suspect all that's left will be the San Luis and Rio Grande Railway (and its passenger operation known as Rio Grande Scenic) and the Grenada Railway. The latter I think is in his 'briar patch' - IC territory. I hope he concentrates on them to provide a well run (and railfan friendly) operation.
I hope his fleet of passenger cars wind up in friendly hands, and not a scrap dealer. I'd love to see his ex Olympian Hiawatha observation-lounge-sleeper, Coffee Creek, fully restored.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
A restoration of the Coffee Creek Skytop car would be great!
Amtrak says it will retain many of the amenities when they take over the Hoosier State (I guess that would be today):
Iowa Pacifics Hoosier State train has a lot working against it.
First, theres the long trip time. Three and a half hours to travel between Lafayette and Chicago, a two-hour drive away.
Then theres the limited schedule. Only one train per day, four days per week. (Its sister train, Amtraks Cardinal, handles the other three days.)
And there are the freight railroads on whose track the Hoosier State runs. Freight railroads prioritize their own trains, meaning the Hoosier States operational destiny is largely out of its own hands.
All of that aside, Iowa Pacific has a lot working against it internally, as well. And my experiences riding the train Monday night suggest its wounds are largely self-inflicted
While a joyride on both the Pullman Rail and the Hoosier State "X'd my mind", I could not discount how UNOHOO stuck good friends of mine with his Golden Arrow fiasco during the '70's. Lest we not forget my 2013 "one click away" experience with PRJ which was "too close a shave", and from which I would have been out some "heap big wampum". A Hoosier State joyride would have involved a bit less scratch, but now that major brand hotels all require 24hr notice to cancel, I would not have been able "to walk away clean" if Hoosier State passengers at CUS were ushered up to Canal Street for a "Bustetoot" to Lafayette.
I wouldn't expect the promised Amtrak amenities of the Dome or the "Table Service" dining to last for long. Hoosier State will be back to its two Coaches (no F&B) before you know it - and on the "QT".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
In almost every shot, there were 2 locos assigned to haul the Hoosier State if there were more than 3 passenger cars in the consist. But the Cardinal could pull its longer consist and deadhead the entire IP consist with a single loco. What's up with that?
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
A) One unit for power, one for HEP.
B) Amtrak said "Not our units, bring your own spare."
C) IPH said "We don't want to be stuck with a broken down unit, let's bring a spare."
Three possibilities only.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ladbrokes surely has a book open on how long the last two cars in the consist shown will last. Perfectly legal to wager on line with them.
Bets, anyone?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Although the following article originated with an "alternative newssource", site, it has also been reported at several others that meet the standard of "recognized":
The Hoosier Statethe Amtrak rail line that provides service between Indianapolis and Chicago four days a weekmay soon be history.
The new two-year state budget proposed by Gov. Eric Holcomb Thursday eliminates the $3 million annual appropriation for the rail line. Without it, the line likely will be discontinued.
Two years ago, Holcombthen lieutenant governorwent to Lafayette, one of the Hoosier States station stops, to proclaim the line a success: We all recognize the importance of the Hoosier State train to tourism and economic development.
Thursday, though, he was practically giving the last rites.
It hasnt performed as originally billed, Holcomb said..
While F&B as well as Business Class have survived, neither can obviate the five hour CHI-IND schedule that can be driven in 3.25hr. While the "last ditch one a day schedule" of "little town to big town in the morning and back to little town at night" first instituted by the railroads as multi-frequency routes got cut back, it can provide something resembling service in markets such as LAF-CHI for day trippers or connections, but useless for anyone else.
And even though long stretches of the 65 have restricted speeds (55 and 45 "when flashing") while it is three laned through Indiana, it's not enough to offset the five hour schedule for which there is no relief in sight.
Time to lay the puppy to rest.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
I would agree, GBN. If Indiana wants the train they should fund it on a daily basis. Terminating at Lafayette makes sense. Perhaps renaming it the Boiler Maker in honor of Purdue U. there. I understand that name came from the days when it was the main shops for the Monon RR.
Indiana's loss could present an opportunity to make the Cardinal a more useful service. Amtrak tries to make the Cardinal do too much and as a result it does nothing well. The mileage from Huntington to Chicago is about 480. From Huntington to Washington it's about 440. With the reduced coal volumes I suspect CSX would agree to a daily Cardinal on that portion if the rest of the route was eliminated.
Then the Cardinal could be part of an early evening NEC regional train to Washington. After removal of a few coaches in Washington (as is done now on the Palmetto), it would leave Washington in the late evening. This would provide a morning arrival in WV towns and perhaps more importantly enable good timing for daylight bus connections to Columbus, Cincinnati, and Lexington/Louisville. All of them are less than three hours away by highway. If the new Viewliner sleepers ever appear, that could be added to make it a useful train for us railfans.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
To quote from the article posted by Mr. Norman:
"Holcomb seems to love transportation. Hes proposing $20 million in new state investments to boost nonstop overseas flights and millions more for hiking and biking trail development. At less than 0.02 percent of the states two-year spending, the $6 million for the rail line is, well, chump change"
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