quote:XpressWest, the private U.S. firm proposing to build a high-speed rail link between Las Vegas and Los Angeles, terminated a joint venture with Chinese companies less than nine months after the deal was announced, citing delays faced by its partner.
It really would be a farce if the "Build America" clause for the train sets directly causes job losses in the construction industry if the rail line does not get built. I am all for domestic jobs but only where practical.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
I also wondered about the "built in America" requirement. Is this something new? If not, why did they try to contract with China in the first place?
Back in 2009, there was a plan for an additional extension of Calif. HSR from LA to Las Vegas. I guess that's off the table. If Xpress West was going to cost 5 billion, it doesn't seem like a lot compared to 68 billion (and probably much more) for the entire Calif. HSR project.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
The first stage of XpressWest was just north Victorville to Las Vegas. A later stage would head due west from Victorville to meet up with the other HSR in the vicinity of Palmdale. On a map the route would roughly be southwest from Vegas to Victorville, then west to Palmdale, then broadly southwest-south-southeast-south into LA.
I don't know about the figures but I don't think Victorville to Vegas requires any major tunneling which can be upwards of ten times the flat surface building of a rail line. Much of it was to run in the I-15 median which is quite wide in most places. Not sure about gradients - the road hits an elevation of 4000ft a couple of times, with Vegas and Baker a lot lower. But it's not elevation of course but grade. A quick Google suggests grades of 4% to 8% (the latter mostly short and at the summits). For HSR you don't really want to go about about 3.5% - Cajon Pass reaches 3% but of course those are heavy trains on cruaves and not intended to be high speed (much less!) So, I don't know how the median rails would deal with the steeper parts.
I don't know about the Build America thing and why contract the Chinese. Apparently there are get-out clauses for Buy America - but not for high speed trains. Maybe something to do with funding (ie politics)? But using foreign companies to help build is not unusual at all for such big projects. China has lots of experience; the US nowhere near as much. Some might not like that, or will try to denigrate China but - at least according to this article - China has one of the best rail safety records in the world.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
If a fed. 35 year loan would fund the 5.5 billion needed, why not just revive the Desert Wind? I always thought that the state of Nevada and Casino enterprises would kick in a fair amount, if the project were a private affair. The train service, I would think, would be of greatest benefit to the state of Nevada.
Richard
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Richard, that article is nearly two years old!
That said, it's what I've been saying all along: why would anybody drive from LA to Victorville on the worst, most congested part of the route, and then board a train? And not a cheap train one at that.
A revival of the Desert Wind would be good.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by yukon11: A recent article....Richard
Richard, this an Opinion piece; not an article.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Ok, an opinion piece. Sorry, I wouldn't have posted it if I knew it was 2 years old. I didn't read the date. Must be getting old (me, not the opinion piece).
Richard
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
The current Tehachapi and Cajon grades are 2.2% with curvature added as needed to keep it to that maximum. The tentative grade for the HSR up Tehachapi is up to 3.5%. That is primarily the difference between being crooked and being straight.
The current "game plan" for a HSR route LA to LV is to run on the HSR to Palmdale and then head out on their own. We know how that is going.
"Buy America" is part of all Federally funded projects. The east side of the San Francisco Bay Bridge got a relief from it to save money. Despite that the thing still cost around $5 billion. They have had some quality problems with it.
There have been cases of transit cars assembled in the US with overseas manufactured components to get around Buy America. There have been probably other escape hatches used as well. Most federal laws are written with sneaky ways around them stuck in them by various members of congress in order to butter their own bread.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:I originally wrote: Cajon Pass reaches 3%
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: The current Tehachapi and Cajon grades are 2.2% with curvature added as needed to keep it to that maximum.
I should have been more specific: BNSF Main 3 (the original, and the one Amtrak often uses) gets to 3.0% between Cajon and Summit, but as you quite rightly say the UP and the BNSF 1 and 2 mains max out at 2.2%.
George, do you know what the traffic levels and grades are like between Barstow and Las Vegas (UP)? My UP book doesn't cover that section. Thanks.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Barstow - Las Vegas:
CTC, but traffic levels I do not know. I gathered up what info I could on all of it when it was available on line, but the info on this section was less than others. I have no idea what the profile or maximum grade is Barstow - LV, but there are some long grades in this section.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
No worries, thanks anyway. I just searched again and found some interesting information here. This page says 20-25 trains per day but is 11 years old so it could be very different today. The Desert Wind did LA to LV in 7 hours roughly, half of that on the Barstow to LV segment.