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I happened to see an Automatic Train Stop device on the truck of Genesis unit #132 on the Southwest Chief. Is #132 special or can the ATS device be taken on and off and placed on what ever unit is on the point? Also is it placed on both sides? I could only see one side of the truck so I don't know if it was on the other. I know the Santa Fe used ATS for their passenger trains. Is the Southwest Chief the only Amtrak train that uses it?
barrydraper Member # 737
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I believe ATS pick ups are on all Amtrak road units and cab cars, certinally most, located on the engineer's side (right) only. ATS or cab signalling are required on any line that exceeds 79 mph. I have heard that the Southwest Chief has had its speed restricted to 79 mph due to the number of express cars and roadrailers handeled, so I'm not sure if ATS is still in effect on that route. It IS still in effect between Los Angeles and San Diego in the areas above 79 mph. I would be interested to know what other Amtrak routes use/used ATS.
Eric Member # 674
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The latest I've heard, the SW Chief still travels at 90 MPH through much of AZ, NM, CO, and KS. The Chief did 90 on my latest trip in August. We were haulin' the mail and the oranges. BNSF enforced a speed restriction for awhile after Sept. 11, but I believe that has been lifted. I read that RoadRailers and ExpressTrak cars were tested for high-speed (90MPH) use, so there shouldn't be any problems.
-Eric
Greg Member # 66
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ATS was removed a year or two ago across Kansas and Colorado on the "La Junta" line as part of the signal replacement on that line. Amtrak didn't want to pay the cost to retain ATS, so top speeds from Emporia, KS west to Belen, NM dropped to 79 mph from 90. ATS is still in place in Missouri with top speeds of 90 mph.
My understanding is that the ATS that does remain on portions of the Southwest Chief route is eventually scheduled for removal as BNSF upgrades signals on the route. Unless Amtrak is willing to pay the incremental cost to retain ATS at the time of signal replacement, ATS will be dropped on that segment and the entire route will eventually have a top speed of 79 mph. The amount of express traffic that Amtrak is hauling is not a factor.
Eric Member # 674
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Greg, Once the signals are replaced, will ATS be reinstalled and speeds raised to 90MPH again? Why does ATS have to be dropped with the installation of new signals?
barrydraper Member # 737
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ATS blocks do not exactly match to the signal blocks, and often the signal blocks are changed when new signals are installed. So, to retain ATS would require a lot of additional wiring as the new signals are installed. Since BNSF doesn't use ATS they naturally don't want to pay for this extra wiring, and Amtrak simply doesn't have the money, so, no ATS will not return once removed.
Eric Member # 674
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I wonder how that will affect scheduling...
Greg Member # 66
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Eric,
When speeds dropped to 79 mph in Kansas, the April 1996 schedule was lengthened by 15 minutes eastbound with no change westbound due to fine-tuning of the schedule along the entire route. In the past two years, there's been more significant lengthening of the schedule (an hour or two) in both directions to allow for more time to handle express traffic. As ATS is removed, schedules will have to be lengthened some, probably no more than an hour or so once all ATS is removed. This would likely mean earlier departures at the trip origins as arrival times in Los Angeles and Chicago can't be pushed back too much without breaking or making less reliable connections with other long distance service.
Greg
Eric Member # 674
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Thanks for the explanation Greg!
Charlie McCandless Member # 939
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ATS was best used to help trains make up time. When I was in Raton in the middle 1970s, the Southwest Limited, as it was called then, ran about 70 mph in the 79-mph territory between Raton and Las Vegas, and 80 mph in the 90-mph territory east of Trinidad. The train ran at the speed limit only when late. However, that was when the passenger train's schedule was posted in the employee timetable. Any speeding would mess up opposing trains. The fireght trains were run as extras, so the Amtrak might not know if a freight was coming unless they heard the radio chatter or saw it on a siding. Now, with track warrent dispatching things are different. If the Chief gets a warrent from Trinidad to La Junta, the engineer knows he has no opposing traffic and can run faster. Even though Raton Pass did not have 90-mph running, there was still some permenent ATS shoes in place.
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