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The Albuquerque Journal, Santa Fe edition, is reporting today that the state of New Mexico has reached an agreement with BNSF to buy the BNSF right-of-way from Belen, New Mexico, to Lamy, New Mexico, and perhaps all the way to the Colorado state line. The only traffic on this line is two Southwest Chiefs and couple of freights each day. The state plans to start a commuter rail service--I think it's called the Railrunner--from Belen to Bernalillo in January and on to Santa Fe in 2008.
No mention of price for the right-of-way, though.
The state earlier bought the Santa Fe Southern right-of-way from downtown Santa Fe to Lamy in what can only be called a sweetheart deal.
CoastStarlight99 Member # 2734
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I was in Albuquerque a few weeks ago and as we arrived on #4, I saw all of the New Mexico Railrunner equipment. Its all brand new, and ready to go, but I did hear as you said that they are not going to run it for a few years which is a shame when they have all the equipment just sitting there.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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On the contrary, Mr. CS99, in today's ABQ article:
"Service on the first portion of a Belen-to-Bernalillo commuter rail service is scheduled to begin in January, and planners hope to get a commuter train into Santa Fe sometime in 2008."
There is also mention of a group promoting Cheyenne to ABQ rail service: http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/31700.html This purchase makes that more than a pipe dream. Welcome to the new wild west!
What is amazing to me is that the Rail Runner was first proposed in 2003, and may be running in another 2 months. Here in Minnesota the politicians argued and planned for a decade to get 12 miles of light rail. Hurray for Gov. Bill Richardson of NewMex who was a driving force behind this.
This not very populous state. It has never even built a freeway other than the cross country interstates that run through it. Yet it recognized the value of an existing rail line that needs little upgrading for fast passenger service and acted. I hope this will be an example of fiscal responsibility and foresight that will be noticed by the rest of the nation.
Kiernan Member # 3828
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I'm not going to hold my breath until there's an Albuquerque to even Denver rail service. It would certainly be a good idea and I'd ride it to Denver regularly, just to go somewhere. There is a demand for that route. TNM&O (Greyhound), El Paso/Los Angeles Express, and Americanos all run many buses each day along the route and it's astonishing how many people go to Denver from my office, particularly during football season. Last year I went to Denver for a Colorado Symphony concert and I drove up on Saturday and back on Sunday. I would MUCH rather have taken a train, but the Southwest Chief dumps you off in Raton and you ride the bus to Denver.
Our Guv--who insisted on buying himself a brand-new Cessna Citation with tax money--understands the problem here. The state workers can't afford to live in Santa Fe so SCADS of people commute from Albuquerque. Without the train, the state will have to consider moving state offices to Albuquerque when gas prices go up much more, and that won't help Santa Fe a bit.
Kiernan Member # 3828
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Forgot something. Our Guv commutes from Santa Fe to Albuquerque--sixty or so miles--in his new Citation.
RRCHINA Member # 1514
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Albuquerque to downtown Santa Fe where most of the State offices are located is more than a one hour commute if you drive I-25 and Cerrillos Rd.
However, to commute by rail via Lamy will be two plus hours, maybe three, because of the extra distance and the very slow 18 miles up the hill on the former ATSF Santa Fe District.
It will take mega $$$ to upgrade this RR to be a quick commute, but since it is the Gov't paying for it and not the commuters, or the taxpayers who will never use it, why be concerned.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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Could they just make Lamy the commuter rail stop and run buses up to Santa Fe?. A bus could serve many points in town and serve tourists as well as workers. Seems like on the SWC the run between Lamy and ABQ is all at least 79 mph.
By the way I took the SWC from Ft. Madison to ABQ and back last week, and got to try out my new toy - a notebook computer with GPS software. In addition to letting me watch the train move along the map, it showed us doing 93mph through parts of Missouri.
sojourner Member # 3134
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When I was in Lamy station waiting for the shuttle to Santa Fe last spring, I chatted with some local people who mentioned the need for a local train if Amtrak goes belly up. This was before Congress had voted the new funding to Amtrak, and expectation of the White House plan resulting in curtailment of long-distance Amtrak at the time seemed very high (could be it is again with the Gunn firing; I don't know). Anyway, these people who were chatting about it seemed to think the Southwest Chief was one of the endangered routes (and Sunset Limited even more endangered, of course). I cannot recall them mentioning how far in either direction the local train might travel but I have a vague impression they thought it might go further west than Albuquerque. Is any of this sound likely, or was it just idle speculation? I sure hope the SW Chief is not endangered, though I suppose now all of the east-west long-distance western routes are.
RRCHINA Member # 1514
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The current Amtrak schedule calls for one hour and five minutes from Alb to Lamy.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Just looked at the employee timetable: Lamy to Santa Fe is 67.2 miles, 79 mph, but with ATS still in place as of the date of my ETT, so the 90 mph speeed limit could be resurrected with a little trackwork. Only 4.8 miles of this is restricted to less than the 79 mph, and of that mostly in the 50 to 60 range except for 0.5 miles of 35, so unless there are a large number of stops, can't see a commuter train taking more than about 1h15m to 1h30m or so. Given an upgrade just to permit 59 mph on the branch, add about 25 to 30 minutes for Santa Fe itself, on the existing line. I have seen schemes for a new line from so point on the main to some point on the Santa Fe branch to shorten the overall time. No idea of the cost, but this is New Mexico, not California, so the prices should be somewhere this side of outrageous.
can you really consistently do Albuqueerque to Santa Fe in one hour on the highway?
Kiernan Member # 3828
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The preferred alternative for the RailRunner does not include going through Lamy. There's an incredible amount of public opposition from people who live here in Eldorado. The Lamy line goes through Eldorado. The proposal is to follow the main line to east of where it crosses Interstate 25 and then rejoin the Lamy line where it crosses Interstate 25. The route is near Santa Fe Community College. This property is mostly owned by the Feds and the state so the right-of-way acquisition costs will be minimal. Stations will probably include stops at the reservations along the way.
When I was at the last public meeting I complained to the Secretary of the NMDOT that it was difficult to find the RailRunner webpage from the DOT webpage. It still is difficult, but here it is.
From my office where the Lamy line crosses I-25, I can get to the Starbucks in Bernalillo consistently in 42 minutes. Bernalillo to I-40 is the difficult part.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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"can you really consistently do Albuqueerque to Santa Fe in one hour on the highway?"
Some seem to be trying, but occasionally they crash and add an extra hour for the rest of us. It really has become a very congested and challenging stretch of highway. Some part of I-25 through ABQ always seems to be under construction. There are no alternate freeways and a single crash can mean sitting still for a long time. It happened to me 2 of my last 4 trips, all in low-volume traffic times. I have learned to allow an extra hour to catch the #4 when returning my rental car. If I could rent a car as cheaply and conveniently in Santa Fe, I would.
RRCHINA Member # 1514
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Another solution, and likely much less expensive and disruptive, would be to add a third lane in each direction from north ALB to the Saint Francis interchange at Santa Fe. The right of way is already in place so there would be little or no property to be purchased and construction costs would also be minimized.
To build a high speed RR with station stops is very expensive and can be justified ( if that is a criteria ) in locals where there is substantially more traffic than we are talking about here. La Bajada hill is a significant grade and rail operations require a lesser grade than do highways, especially where the grade is about two miles in length on I-25 at La Bajada. We are probably talking three plus miles for a RR operation.
I may sound anti RR, but I am certainly not. It just appears, with the info currently available, that a commuter RR beyond Bernalillo is not economically feasible and would not be for many years. But has that kind of analysis ever gotten in the way of politicians?
Associated Press coverage circulated in the Santa Fe New Mexican suggest this is not quite yet a "done deal".
No one is saying "deal's off'; just not yet done.
Kiernan Member # 3828
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Can't add a third lane to I-25. Indians don't sell right-of-way. To anyone.
RRCHINA Member # 1514
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Interesting comment Kiernan. We must presume that the existing I-25 right of way was acquired prior to there being any Indian Reservations.
On a serious note, there is plenty of room within the existing ROW to create a third lane in each direction. Politicians and bureaucrats will always look for ways to do make a project greater than it need be. After all, there is always more money. Yours and mine of course.
Those familiar with this area wiil note that there is a third lane northbound going up La Bajada hill. Additionally, the Indians are always wanting something from the state of federal Gov't and so there are always negotiations ongoing. But we would not want to solve a problem inexpensively and set a president if we are politicians, would we?
Chucky Member # 2263
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I'm not sure I understand everything that has been said in the course of this conversation, but I have spoken at length with people involved with the Roadrunner project and I would like to share what I know with you all.
First off, the Belen to Bernalillo (and ultimately Santa Fe) line is designed to be a "commuter" railroad. That means that there will be about three trains in the morning and about three trains at night.
This means that it is not designed to be a tourist operation and I think that is a huge mistake. People come from all over the world to visit Santa Fe, especially since the mid 70's when Cosmopolitan Magazine dubbed it "the place to be." I left Santa Fe when they turned the Safeway adjoining the plaza into an art gallery and the rents and real estate prices started resembling those of New York.
Nevertheless, people come from all over to visit Santa Fe and I would hope that there would be some sort of connection from Albuquerque airport ("The Sunport") to downtown Santa Fe because I think such a system would flourish.
Regardless, the numbers suggest that a commuter railroad is sorely needed. I think they say over 10,000 people make the daily commute from the Belen area to Albuquerque and the traffic is horrible and the air quality suffers.
As far as the Indian tribes are concerned, my understanding is that when the they realized that the State was in earnest about building the railroad, they became very, very interested in seeing it completed as soon as possible. This, of course, is because the Indians have some pretty substantial casinos lining I-25 and I'm sure they would love to have people taking the train to gamble as well as go to concerts.
But as I said before, the problem is that the Roadrunner is being primarily built as a "commuter line" and its schedule reflects this intention. Whether it will accommodate gamblers, concert goers or tourists is secondary in the planners minds.
As far as the new Raton route to Santa Fe is concerned, those that take the Southwest Chief know that that area is one of the reasons many tourists climb aboard that train. Apache Canyon, going through Glorieta etc. is gorgeous territory and the train just creeps through that area, for safety reasons I gather. A diversion from that route would most definitely speed things up, but at the price of a very scenic journey.
I apologize for my lack of specifics, but I'm just throwing my two cents in here because I do believe that there may be a measure of truth to some of the things I have just said.
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