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Don't laugh at me...I guess I am a train freak, but I want to take Route 1 Orlando to LAX and than back again on route 2 for the Sunset just to say I have. Of course I would get a sleeper. A couple of questions... 1) should I allow a few extra days (grant you I have relatives in LA and spend a lot of time there so I don't need to sight see) just to give myself a cusion for the return trip? 2) Will they EVER extend past New Orleans again?
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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First thing, Scott, the accepted terminology is Train #1 and #2, not route.
You are well advised to have a sleeper; the trip is going to be an adventure anyway; why add to misery with a "masochistic adventure'. Any contemplation of a same day return from LA would be ill-advised, unless you are prepared to jump ship, say, in Palm Strings in the certainty of a late #1.
While the official "party line' states that the New Orleans-Orlando segment is to be restored, I have my considered doubts if that will ever come to pass,
notelvis Member # 3071
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The elimination of the Sunset east of New Orleans would be one Bush Administration goal actually achieved by Hurrican Katrina.
I too would be more than a little surprised if the Sunset ever operates the Orlando-New Orleans portion of it's route again.
gp35 Member # 3971
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It's CSX decision to rebuild the east on New Orleans route or not. I think with states getting involved in railroading, Mississippi will not allow that line to go abandon. Also KCS, BNSF, and UP would love a east coast connection. It'll be rebuilt.
SunsetLtd Member # 3985
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I would feel sorry for all that people on the route past New Orleans. They all worked so hard to bring the Sunset there in the first place and then for Bush to say it's not coming back, they'll probably flip their lids if it doesn't come back.
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by gp35: It's CSX decision to rebuild the east on New Orleans route or not. I think with states getting involved in railroading, Mississippi will not allow that line to go abandon. Also KCS, BNSF, and UP would love a east coast connection. It'll be rebuilt.
Agreed that the line will be rebuilt by someone.
The question is whether or not Amtrak will be able to restore passenger service. There are stations to be repaired and crews that would need to be paid.
This is going to take money.
Chances are Amtrak won't have this kind of cash when they need it. Even if Amtrak does have the dough, odds are the administration will come up with some reason why Amtrak funds can't be squandered rebuilding 100 year old train stations in a flood plain.
George Harris Member # 2077
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According to the CSX web site, the line is now reopened. To what condition was not stated. It may not yet have a functional signal system, may have extensive slow orders, etc. Someone closer to the scene will need to provide that sort of information.
The condition of the stations has never been stated anywhere that I have seen. That will probably need lots of work. Saw Gulfport several years ago, and it was in pretty good conditon if I recall correctly.
There has been a push for several years by some elements along the Gulf Coast to have the entire railroad relocated several miles inland. Who knows when or even if that may happen.
Kairho Member # 1567
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: ...to have the entire railroad relocated several miles inland...
Did I not read somewhere that there has been no new railroad main line right of way since something like 1903?
I fear that public attitudes towards land reuse would result in a strong wall of opposition towards any such realignment, dooming it to failure. Now, maybe if there were popular support for the Kelo decision...
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: The condition of the stations has never been stated anywhere that I have seen. That will probably need lots of work. Saw Gulfport several years ago, and it was in pretty good conditon if I recall correctly.
There has been a push for several years by some elements along the Gulf Coast to have the entire railroad relocated several miles inland. Who knows when or even if that may happen.
I saw one photo post Katrina of the depot in Gulfport. There was a large hole in the roof, shingles were missing, and there was a good deal of flotsam surrounding he building.
While this is relatively minor, this is a station that had been renovated by local interests when the 'Sunset' was first extended eastward from New Orleans.
One could imagine that other depots in the area are also damaged and mounting another local effort to restore them is likely a low priority in light of so much other destruction in the region.
gp35 Member # 3971
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I see no reason for this ocean of negativity. Bush is not Amtrak dictator. Amtrak is getting out of the station building business. The majority of Amtraks LD stations are no more than a fancy city bus stop. None of this has stopped Amtrak. If I was Amtrak dictator, as much as I want daily Sunset service, Sunset would not be my top priority. Maybe Amtrak has the same thinking as I. Before Sunset goes Daily, the double track building would be complete in the southwest. A final plan for New Orleans rebuilding must be finalized. Before Katrina, the CSX line wasn't very good. I'm sure it's no better now. This line would need concrete bridges and double line. I can understand why Amtrak is footdragging to continue service. One other piece of information you guys have seem to forgot. Between New Orleans and Mobile is part of the Gulf Coast high speed rail corridor. Future plans called for the rebuilding of this line. Katrina may have forced this plan into action a few years earlier.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Unfortunately, Mr. GP-35, President Bush IS Amtrak Dictator - just as much as he is dictator of the Dept of Defense, Transportation, Education, etc.
Congress funds, the President runs. That is what the doctrine of separation of powers is all about.
I grant Amtrak has been in a limbo for the past 34 years. It is technically not on any Executive or Legislative Branch organization chart. It is actually a Corporation, but with the continued funding necessary to keep it going, both Congress and the President have sought to have operational control of it.
At this time, it appears that the President has won. Mr. Laney is clearly beholden to President Bush through Secretary Mineta - and we know at whose pleasure the Secretary serves.
With the firm control, including the justified (even if not in the best interest of rail passenger service) dismissal of Mr. Gunn, that the incumbent administration has wrested over Amtrak affairs, it is doubtful if any subsequent administration will relinquish the existing level of control. That "simply aint how they play the game" in Washington.
George Harris Member # 2077
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The CSX line along the Gulf Coast for the most part does have concrete bridges. In fact, I believe that all the long bridges along this route are now concrete or concrete and steel, and have been for quite a few years. The bridge that lost its superstructure at Bay St. Louis was concrete, built in mid 1960's and survived Camille in 1969 with significant, but repairable damage.
The need for double line is debatable. I would think that between New Orleans, Mobile, and Flomaton some longer passing tracks or insertion of sections of double track would be nice, but the longer single track bridges will undoubably stay that way due to the huge expense od doubling them. What would be most beneficial would be to have signals between Flmaton and Talahassee, with some more long passing tracks. Do not recall the exact distances between passing points, but it is long. The lack of signals keeps the line, which is fairly straight and level, limited to 59P/49F. However, all this will depend upon CSX seeing the benefits to freight. They are not in the business of providing multi-millions in charity to Amtrak, nor should anyone expect it.
The Gulf Coast High Speed Rail Corridor is a nice thing for the politicians to call for studies on to look like they are doing something, but unless there are major changes in the way the government finances things I am not sure than any of us will live long enough to see it happen if it ever does.
Kairho, there have been several new main lines since 1903. In fact, new main lines were being built right up to the start of the depression. A few are:
Seaboard Air Line to Miami - about 200 miles, completed late 20's
Frisco line into Pensacola and AT&N line into Mobile were both built in the 20's.
The Illinois Central line into Birmingham used by the City of Miami was built in 1908.
The Santa Fe line from Denton into Dallas, while only about 40 miles long was built in the 1950's
The Southern Pacific line through Kamath Falls to bypass Siskiyou Suimmit was also built in the 1920's
The Black Mesa and Lake Powell coal mine to power plant line of about 70 miles was built in the 70's or 80's, I do not recall. Maybe this one does not count.
The SP Pheonix line west, which is now out of service was also built in the 1920's
The DRGW Dotsero cutoff was also built in the 20's or 30's, again I do not remember when.
ATSF built built about a 30 mile relocation near Williams, Arizona in the early 1960's to bypass some crooked and steep grades.
Southern built something like 35 miles of new line on the most mountainous sections of their Cincinatti to Chattanooga line in the early 1960's.
These are only new routes or major relocations. There was a lot of double tracking and straightening of lines done in the first two decades of the 20th century. There has also been a lot of bridge strengthening, bridge replacements, and tunnel enlargements done in the years since.
So far as I know, all these lines were built without any form of government assistance. Some of the more recent clearance projects, such as the one in Pennsylvania to permit double stacks did have some government assistance, but mostly at the state level.
George
Mr. Toy Member # 311
posted
quote:Originally posted by notelvis: The question is whether or not Amtrak will be able to restore passenger service. There are stations to be repaired and crews that would need to be paid.
This is going to take money.
Chances are Amtrak won't have this kind of cash when they need it. Even if Amtrak does have the dough, odds are the administration will come up with some reason why Amtrak funds can't be squandered rebuilding 100 year old train stations in a flood plain.
Many station buildings are owned or funded locally, so they aren't as dependent on federal Amtrak funds as the trains themselves.
gp35 Member # 3971
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George I have a friend involved with the South Central high speed rail corridor. He said they are ready to start building this corridor. First phase is between Austin and San Antonio. He also said the state/feds as also linked the Gulf Coast to the South Central corridor at Kileen. I think it's called the T-bone. Anyway he said once the South Central construction gets going smoothly, focus will turn to the Gulf Coast. BTW, I think the Gulf coast corridor goes to Baton Rouge instead of the south route via Lake Charles.
George Harris Member # 2077
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I had been following the Austin to San Antonio proposal. Had the impression that there were still funding issues and Union Pacific issues. I know at one point the UP was talking about a freight line east of the corridor that would take all the through freight out of the corridor. Had the impression that nothing was really happening right now. If it is it would be high on my list for a potential next employer.
George
MDRR Member # 2992
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FWIW, I have been informed by friends in Amtrak
management that there is no intention to restore
service between Orlando and New Orleans.
ScottC4746 Member # 3323
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quote:Originally posted by MDRR: FWIW, I have been informed by friends in Amtrak
management that there is no intention to restore
service between Orlando and New Orleans.
That is a shame as I really wanted to do the entire route. Oh well...at least New Orleans has a first class waiting lounge where as Orlando did not. Also most of the route between New Orleans and Orlando were not stations but bus shelters.
sojourner Member # 3134
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Scott, I'm not sure if this is what you are interested in doing, but you can get from Florida to New Orleans by train without returning to DC if you go through North Carolina, though it would add a day to your trip--however, much of that day would be in Raleigh, seeing the NC capital. There were some posts here where David Pressley and I discussed it. What you do is go north on the Silver Star, get off in Raleigh, spend time and have lunch there, then take the Carolina train (I forget if it's the Piedmont or Carolinian; whichever leaves later in the day) to Greensboro, NC, have dinner there, and catch the Crescent south there later that night. You could also make the second switch in Charlotte instead of Greensboro, but then you are catching the Crescent even later into the middle of the night. And you can also do all this west to east, if you prefer.
Or instead of going both ways on the Sunset Ltd, you might make a loop using the City of New Orleans and a different western train for one direction. Wouldn't that be fun?
George Harris Member # 2077
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It is the Carolinian. This train is also likely to be late southbound as it originates in New York. The Greensboro is downtown and recently reopened. Charlotte station is at the freight yard and is now woefully undersized with the increase in passenger loadings in North Carolina. (Are you listening Norm?) Go to the NCDOT web site www.bytrain.org for a lot of information on the passenger related railroad going ons in North Carolina.
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: It is the Carolinian. This train is also likely to be late southbound as it originates in New York. The Greensboro is downtown and recently reopened. Charlotte station is at the freight yard and is now woefully undersized with the increase in passenger loadings in North Carolina. (Are you listening Norm?) Go to the NCDOT web site www.bytrain.org for a lot of information on the passenger related railroad going ons in North Carolina.
Norm's not listening. Norm is talking and spreading misinformation. I was proud to carry a picket for the cause at his 'press conference' last year at the Charlotte station.
PaulB Member # 4258
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Or instead of going both ways on the Sunset Ltd, you might make a loop using the City of New Orleans and a different western train for one direction. Wouldn't that be fun?
If you want to stay on the Sunset as long as possible, you could do Sunset to LA, then Texas Eagle/City of New Orleans back to New Orleans.
ScottC4746 Member # 3323
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I hate to say this but I don't dare try a connection with Amtraks on time record or should I say lack there of. Scott
quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Scott, I'm not sure if this is what you are interested in doing, but you can get from Florida to New Orleans by train without returning to DC if you go through North Carolina, though it would add a day to your trip--however, much of that day would be in Raleigh, seeing the NC capital. There were some posts here where David Pressley and I discussed it. What you do is go north on the Silver Star, get off in Raleigh, spend time and have lunch there, then take the Carolina train (I forget if it's the Piedmont or Carolinian; whichever leaves later in the day) to Greensboro, NC, have dinner there, and catch the Crescent south there later that night. You could also make the second switch in Charlotte instead of Greensboro, but then you are catching the Crescent even later into the middle of the night. And you can also do all this west to east, if you prefer.
Or instead of going both ways on the Sunset Ltd, you might make a loop using the City of New Orleans and a different western train for one direction. Wouldn't that be fun?
ScottC4746 Member # 3323
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Well I guess at least LAX-NO is something at least. I should hop the rails before it goes away completely. Amtrak's insurance...along with everyone elses on the Gulf Coast...probably laughed when they wanted to rebuild stations cheaply. The premiums would probably shoot through the roof after paying for all the damaged stations.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Scotty, as I have noted here in the past, I would not wager too much as the 'mostly up and running' Biloxi and Gulfport palaces (just like yours out at The Meadows, they weren't built for winners lest we note) of a New Orleans-Orlando restoration of the Sunset.
ScottC4746 Member # 3323
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Any news on on time (HA) service of Sunset Limited between LA and New Orleans? I am thinking of going by myself since the family thinks I am crazy doing this. I will get a bedroom, probably more space than I need, but the thought of going down the hall for the toilet and showers brings flash backs of school dorms that I really do not care to relive. I am looking at February (of course watching for Mardi Gras to avoid). Leave Feb 8 and arrive on 2/10 then return on 2/11 back to LA. Any thoughts?
palmland Member # 4344
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I think your family will be missing a great trip if they don't join you at least one way (you don't pay extra for a one way flight - at least on Southwest).
The Sunset has a full lounge/observation car and diner and the service was good when we took it several years ago. If the train is late, so what. If you spend the night at destination, relax and enjoy the extra time on the train.
While not spectacular like the Rockies, this train is a great opportunity to see how varied this country is in terrain, the small cities, and the people you will meet on the train. And of course New Orleans is a fun city and well worth a visit on its own merits.
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