posted
When was the last Chicago to Miami passenger run (through Birmingham, Alabama)?
1702 Member # 4508
posted
Unable to locate the exact date, but sometime in October 1979.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
The Floridian was a casualty of the "Carter cuts" and was gone as of October 1, 1979.
Let the well-worn discussion of "why can't we have a Chicago Florida train?" begin.
Geoff M Member # 153
posted
We could cut the discussion short and just say "poor quality track - it'd be quicker to drive". That seems to be the limiting factor from what I've heard.
Geoff M.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
Mr Geoff, so long as "poor quality track' translates to the volume of freight traffic handled either by CSX or NS over any proposed route.
Geoff M Member # 153
posted
I don't know about traffic volumes, but quality of track was exactly that - low speeds due to track that has seen better days. Over low speed track you simply aren't going to get any kind of volume of freight traffic anyway.
I've got a vague feeling, but no facts, that most of the various ways of threading through OH, KY, AL etc don't have CTC installed either, which can further impede travel to a certain degree.
Geoff M.
notelvis Member # 3071
posted
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: The Floridian was a casualty of the "Carter cuts" and was gone as of October 1, 1979.
Let the well-worn discussion of "why can't we have a Chicago Florida train?" begin.
Did the Floridian not hang on for a few departures beyond October 1st, 1979 due to a court injunction while the legitimacy of the Carter cutbacks was challenged in court?
I seem to recall that the Lone Star (one of the other trains eliminated in October 1979) made a few extra trips and was combined with the then Southwest Limited as far as Emporia or thereabouts. I can't cite a source but it seems like I remember a photo of that combined train derailing and making the newspaper around October 4.
Possible......or just my memory starting to fade prematurely?
Pojon Member # 3080
posted
The Floridian was supposed to be replaced by the connection between the Silver Meteor and the Capitol Limited in Washington, DC. For a while they ran a Silver meteor sleeper on the Capitol Limited. No substitute, though!!!
George Harris Member # 2077
posted
We can't simply say bad track and dismiss it so cavalierly.
At their best, the pre Amtrak Chicago to Florida fast trio made it Chicago to Jacksonville in about 23 to 24 hours. At the end of the Floridian, it was several hours longer, I think about 28 to 30 hours, but I have no schedule at hand.
Actually, the former Floridian route, the South Wind pre Amtrak is not exactly available in Indiana, but the rest is. The route available in Indiana north of Indianapolis is that used by the Cardinal and while not really fast is neither bad track nor so far as I know overloaded with traffic. Indianapolis to Louisville needs a complete rail relay so far as I know so as to be other than a bone-jarring ride at 30 mph. This gets you the first 300 miles. Do not know what the signal situation is on these lines, either then or now. The next 480 miles is the ex L&N main Louisville to Montgomery AL, single track CTC, quite a bit of traffic. Reasonably good track so far as I know. Probably still capable of its historic 70 mph speed limit for passenger trains. South of Montgomery the ex ACL line to Waycross GA is not signaled and never has been. This line probably needs quite a bit of work to get above 40 mph. I believe the speed limit for passenger trains during Floridian days and earlier was 59 mph, with various slow zones to less. In southern Alabama the line is rather curvey. South of Waycross, CTC, very busy. 60 or 70 mph for freights, I think.
The routing of the Illinois Central originating City of Miami is no longer possible as significant key segments have been abandoned in areas where there is no alternate approaching the same speed capablilities. That is to say, Chicago to Birmingham AL would have to go through Memphis instead of Jackson TN and take more like 18 plus hours instead of the former 14. While still signaled, the former ICRR full double track and 100 mph speed limits for part of it Illinois are gone.
The former route of the Dixie Flagler is all still in place, all still main line, CTC throughout, and probably in as good a condition, and in some areas better than it was when the train was running. South of Woodlawn Jct. IL it is primaily single track all the way from there to Flokston GA. This line is heavily loaded with freight traffic, and a result there is no hope of any run time approaching that of the schedule of the Dixie Flagler. Even though shortest is distance, this was actually the tightest scheduled of the three trains. For the segments I know, the average speed of the schedule approached the passenger train speed limits with permanent restrictions included. Therefore the schedule of the Dixie Flagler was only possible by giving it priority over everything else. For most of this route the freight speed limits today are the same or higher than they were in the 1950's, and I beleive for some of it higher than the passenger train speed limits were then, but without a huge investment in additional main tracks this can not be translated into running the 1950's scheduled times.
George
Geoff M Member # 153
posted
Thanks for the confirmation, George. Perhaps my "poor quality track" was misinterpreted though - rather than dismissing that statement, you've actually confirmed what I was alluding to!
Chicago to Jacksonville on the Floridian was about 27 hours in 1972 and about 30 hours in 1975. I don't know about later years, though I suspect the brief marriage with the midwest Auto Train didn't help.
Geoff M.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
posted
quote:Originally posted by Pojon: The Floridian was supposed to be replaced by the connection between the Silver Meteor and the Capitol Limited in Washington, DC. For a while they ran a Silver meteor sleeper on the Capitol Limited. No substitute, though!!!
Regretably, Mr. Pojon, there was only a through Coach offered which was interchanged to the Star, vice Meteor.
An interesting historical note was that during the '90's, I learned that Amtrak did consider a through Superliner Capitol/Star. This was at a time when immediately after the 'Mercer Cuts" and the S-II's being delivered, they were "flush' with Superliners.
However, Amtrak was concerned with the loss of a through train to New York and that was that!
posted