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November 27 1910 The Late Great Pennsylvania Station opened in New York City on 34th and 7th avenue. it stood for 53 years its floors and platforms remain and is the countries heaviest trafficed rail station.
Room Service Member # 2405
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The Demolition in the 60's
Geoff M Member # 153
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Most heavily trafficked? I thought that was Grand Central - it's certainly got more platforms, hasn't it? You learn something new every day.
Which way do the tracks run in this picture? I can't see them, so are they under the visible ground?
Geoff M.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Volks, by the '60's, the Pennsylvania Railroad was the 'Standard Railroad of the World' in name only. Quite honestly, it was canibalizing itself to stay alive. Penn Station in one such example, but equally notable is abandonment of Broad Street in Phila during the '50's.
Preservation in New York during the '50's &'60's was a non issue. How else could have Park Ave become a land of 'Rubik's Cubes' from GCT to 'the Sixties'(while not the whole truth, it seems to me as if only the Waldorf and St Barts survived the onslaught). The current Met Life building along with "Old Penn's' demise could well have been the turning point.
Lest we forget what was Met Life named once upon a time? The Pan Am building. How is that for insult to injury during the early '60's when there was still actually some intercity trains beyond the existing Amtrak 'funding catalyst' skeleton?
However, I guess there was some small comfort in that had 'Old Penn' survived into the '80's, its "demo" would have "never happened'. However, author Tom Wolfe ("Right Stuff' "Bonfire of the Vanities") still believes the preservation movement is under attack as he set forth in Sunday New York Times Op-Ed. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/opinion/26wolfe.html
rresor Member # 128
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Gilbert, I'll accept what the author of the book "The Late, Great Penn Station" said: that the demolition of Penn Station started the architectural preservation movement in NYC. That having been said, I'll accept Tom Wolfe's contention that preservation is under attack. There's just too much money to be made. "Teardowns" are becoming common even in residential real estate. Both my grandparents' houses in Delray Beach, FL have been torn down and replaced by larger and more lucrative structures. The house in which I grew up in Westchester County, along with the house next door, were both torn down to make way for a "McMansion".
That having been said, I think the preservation of significant public buildings (such as former railroad stations) is fairly secure these days). Critics like Wolfe object mostly to changes in the entire fabric of a cityscape, and while I'm somewhat sympathetic, it isn't called "the made environment" for nothing. There's nothing per se wrong about tearing down existing buildings and replacing them with new. It just depends on the buildings.
20th Century Member # 2196
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That was a very interesting article Mr. Norman. Yes the Big Apple has too many glass boxes. Also I remember when I was working at BBDO on Madison and 49th? in the old Manhattan Savings Bank Building. Not sure if that building is still standing. The NY Airways? helicopters used to land on top of the Pan Am (now Met Life) building until the landing mishaps became too frequent. I thought they were landing right on top of our office. In the midst of it all was Grand Central Station. Thank goodness it is still there. I also watched Pennsylvania Station being dismantled when I visited my sister at the Gibbs and Hill Engineering Firm on 7th Ave. I wondered what a magnificent building the new Madison Square Garden will be. What was I thinking!!!!! Before the dismantling process I never actually visited the destroyed Pennsylvania Station because we always used the New York Central Line out of Grand Central.
TBlack Member # 181
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Which way do the tracks run in this picture? I can't see them, so are they under the visible ground?
Geoff M.
The picture is looking west at the Farley building which is the post office building proposed for the "new" Penn Station. The tracks run east, west underground, although just west of the Farley building they are open to the sky briefly but in a trench. TB
Tanner929 Member # 3720
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Because Penn Station handles both New Jersey Transit, the Long Island Railroad as well as Amtrak make it the busiest station. The success of Grand Central was that they guessed right on the cities development. Once they sunk the tracks below ground the Railroad became a financial real estate developer. Unfortunatly for the Pennsy the area around Penn Station has never developed as Park Ave has. Also the design of the Station did not allow for a Pan Am building type structure. The new plan for turninig the Farley into a train facility includes for developing area west over the railyards. Over the years there has been talk of building a West Side Football Stadium (linked for a Olympic Games venue) expansion of the Javits Convention Center or a fourth carnation of Madison Square Garden. In fact in the 1950's a Manhatten Borough President offered that same piece of space to the President of the NY Giants Baseball Team to build a Baseball Stadium before he moved the team to San Francisco. There's something about that strip of real estate that is cursed.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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I recall that, Mr. Tanner, regarding the Giants. That was Borough President Hulan E. Jack, who, as I recall, ended his political career with a visit to the Big House.
palmland Member # 4344
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It is hard to believe that architectually significant buildings are still under attack. I read on another forum that there is some question on the future of Portland, OR station as an Amtrak facility because of high operating costs.
While preservation is admirable (if architectualy or socially significant), much better to adapt the facility for new uses but still retain its original function. Imagine the magnificent terminals in Washington, Kansas City, or Cincinnati without trains and solely a shopping or museum complex. Denver is on the right track. I wonder why supposedly enlightened Portland struggles.
Certainly the sad history of Penn Station is an example of how not to do it. We visit our son often (who works at BBDO - Mr. 20thCentury) and do not enjoy emerging from the bowels of Penn Station or waiting for a train in little more than a subway station.
But now that Penn Station is long gone, is it possible in today's age to build a new mixed use Penn Station (and move the Garden) that several generations from now will be considered as a building to be preserved for the ages. In the long run that may be better than forcing a project with the Farley building that doesn't seem to quite work for Amtrak.
Tanner929 Member # 3720
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Many of the large structures are excellent to find life as museums Richmond VA is now a science musuem. Often the problem had been such as Detroit and Buffalo was that they had been built "out of town" with the vision that the city would spread and grow towards the station. When this did not occoure both the railroad and the office and retail function of the facility also failed. And let's face it is very expensive to keep marble and granit clean. I think the Real Estate success the NY Central achieved made them think it could be duplicated in other cities. Portland might look at Richmonds revitalization of its Main Street Station. For years they tried to reopen the station as a Market and Gallary space. The problem was the nieghborhood had become so run down no one wanted to go there. Years later after the neighborhood had been revitalized the topping of the project was the restored Train station today it is used for business meetings and Wedding Receptions. Of course each city has its individual challanges and opportunities so hopefully Portland will find something that works.
Pojon2 Member # 4048
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Nothing beats the beauty and magnificence of the old Penn Station. Grand Central Terminal, Thank God, in it's preserved and cleaned state is still, though, one of the most beautiful train stations in the world. When I was a kid in the 50's I was continually excited going through each station. A great part of my youth growing up in New York!
When I later lived in Toronto, I was also enthralled by the Union Station which I used many times a month to travel to Montreal, Ottawa, Niagara Falls and back to New York.
rresor Member # 128
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Well, I've already posted once in this thread, but I thought I'd note that my father worked at 233 Park Avenue for many years. This building, shown on maps of the time as "The New York General Building" was in fact built as the NYC Railroad's headquarters in the 1920s. It was across the street from Grand Central, directly to the north, accessible via a pedestrian tunnel. The stylized "NYC" heralds in shiny brass over the entrance to the elevators were a dead giveaway that the new owners (NYC sold it during the Depression) simply changed as few letters as possible in the name.
My memories of Grand Central go back to the 1950s, when Mott Haven Yard was still used for servicing LD trains. On trips into NYC on the Harlem Division commuter trains, I used to often see cuts of LD cars being moved to and from the yard by S motors. Gradually there were fewer and fewer passenger cars stored in Mott Haven, the S motors were replaced by T motors, and finally the yard was closed altogether, with cars simply being stored somewhere in Grand Central's underground trackage.
The station now is a shadow of its former self, but at least it still survives -- unlike Penn Station, of which I also have many memories.
Amtrak207 Member # 1307
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Too bad, my sad anniversary isn't until January 4 this year.
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