Is this a first: whistle stopping for President riding on Amtrak?
RRRICH Member # 1418
posted
amtraksupporter -- no, this is not a first!! Back in 1976, Presidential Candidate Jerry Ford (running for a second term after he replaced Nixon after Watergate)rode a whistle-stop train through Michigan along the route of the Blue Water -- I was living in Lansing then and saw him and the celebration in downtown Lansing.
(as you know, he ended up losing that election to Jimmy Carter, who made substantial route reductions in the AMTRAK system......)
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Well, it appears that the whistle stop has lived on for a cameo appearance in the '08 Presidential campaign - just as it has in every campaign since Lincoln. What remains of course to be seen is if either major party nominee (as distinct from hopeful) will make use of such during the campaign.
train lady Member # 3920
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For those old enough remember Harry Truman used the whistle stop very successfully
palmland Member # 4344
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I remember Lady Bird Johnson stopped her special train in Ashland, Va to speak to the residents and RMC students on behalf of LBJ's candidacy. I was mostly interested in the open platform observation car she spoke from. I guess that would have been 1964?
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Remember the Richard Nixon whistlestop special during which he came out onto the observation car platform and started to speak -- just as the train pulled slowly away from the crowd and disappeared into the gloaming?
The legend is that a Democratic dirty trickster gave the engineer the highball at that moment. It might even be true.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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I can recall two whistle stops over the years; first was Harry Truman campaigning for Stevenson during 1952, at Stamford, and then Barry Goldwater at Champaign during 1964.
Southwest Chief Member # 1227
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Everyone here missed the question...
Whistle stopping for President riding on Amtrak
As far as I can remember, no presidential candidate (if you consider Kucinich a presidential candidate ) has campaigned while riding on a scheduled Amtrak train without at least using one private car. However the article doesn't give enough info to be sure there won't be a private car utilized. I think it's a nice idea to ride the real train like the rest of us, but again not enough info to be sure.
I like the part in the article where it says "Arrival times may very from schedule". With it being the Coast Starlate, at least they're being realistic. Then it seems he'll be taking a Surfliner down the rest of the way to LA the next day. Should be interesting.
train lady Member # 3920
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I would not like to be on that train. With it running late as usual can you imagine what it would be like if it made all the extra stops? Even if it were only the scheduled stops it would/will take more time. It seems to me that this would add annoyance and frustration to the "common" travelor on board.
Tanner929 Member # 3720
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If I recall there had been a incident with Kerry's campaign train holding up other trains getting a conductor fired for complaining about it.
sojourner Member # 3134
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What I recall is that Kerry and Edwards campaigned on a section of either the CA Zephyr or SW Chief and a bunch of supporters were encouraged to come out and see them or meet them by standing on the platform at a stop--it was either Lawrence Kansas or Lincoln Nebraska--anyways, a college town. But it was late at night and Kerry and Edwards weren't told to be there, or couldn't get off the train to say hello, or something like that? So the people never got to see them, or meet them, or whatever they had expected would happen. So the next day or so, Edwards split up from Kerry to go back to that town to make a campaign stop so the people there wouldn't be disappointed.
I remember all this because it involved trains, of course!!! Never heard a thing about anyone from Amtrak getting fired--I would guess that might be an urban legend, but, who knows?
I probably also remember this because I ran into the Edwards campaign in Charleston SC earlier that year (when he was still running for president). It was Super Bowl night, and I happened to be "training it" down to FL that night, going coach from Charleston, so I stopped into a bar/restaurant for some food to eat & to take with me on the train, and there was a big crowd there, and it turned out it was a Super Bowl party that Edwards was throwing for his campaign (SC being a big campaign state). I didn't wait around to meet him, but I did chat with a few of the workers while waiting for my food, and it turned out one of them was catching the same train to FL I was. I later saw him on the train, in fact.
zephyr Member # 1651
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: ... Never heard a thing about anyone from Amtrak getting fired--I would guess that might be an urban legend, but, who knows?
I believe the conductor later resigned, euphemistically speaking, under threat of adverse action.
George Harris Member # 2077
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quote:Originally posted by zephyr:
quote:Originally posted by sojourner: ... Never heard a thing about anyone from Amtrak getting fired--I would guess that might be an urban legend, but, who knows?
I believe the conductor later resigned, euphemistically speaking, under threat of adverse action.
Like the man said, remember what happened and vote accordingly.
sojourner Member # 3134
posted
Thanks for the info; I don't remember this at all. BTW, Mr Harris, I'm not sure what you are suggesting when you say "remember what happened and vote accordingly," but if what happened is as reported, I think the conductor was quite in the wrong. It is completely inappropriate for an employee to get on a soapbox and make political remarks while working. I wouldn't have liked it were I on his train, regardless of which party he was plugging and which not.
The Kerry and Edwards campaign must have paid to rent space on the Amtrak train, and once Amtrak agreed to do that, it's to be expected that supporters would go to stations with signs of support, just as might happen if they were on a motorcade, or making a quick stop at an airport (which happens all the time in campaigns, I think). Had the Bush campaign done the same, I'm sure the same would have happened.
But if this somehow bothers you, then clearly, you do not approve of Amtrak allowing politicians to pay to use their train in whistle stop campaigns.
Personally, I don't like group sales of any kind, political or whatever, on Amtrak, in hotels, etc etc. That's because they often interfere with my travel plans!!!! But I suppose Amtrak et al need to do them to generate profits.
train lady Member # 3920
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I am with you,Sojourner. Sales pitches make me quite crabby when they interfere with what I am doing. The way I see it if you are going to vote for someone then whatever he/she does you tend to excuse but if you are not voting for him/her everything they do annoys you.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Sojourner: What bothers me is that 1. The delay to the schedule for the political train. It should work around the schedule. and 2. That a remark like this anywhere by anybody could cost that person their job. Maybe a discussion on inappropriateness, but certainly no more than that. This is the equivalent of execution for shoplifting. My opinion has nothing to do with the political persuasion of the person who rented the train or that of the conductor.
sojourner Member # 3134
posted
But Mr Harris
A) There is no evidence that the remark "cost him his job," if he QUIT. On whose sayso should we accept that he was forced out? The likely person to have said so is him, and who is to say that what he says can be accepted as accurate? Sounds like he could have been a loudmouth always spouting off, or someone who wanted to leave his job anyway and go into politics . . . I mean, who knows?
B) Mr Tanner's original post talks about Kerry's campaign train holding up other trains and "getting a conductor fired for complaining about it." That doesn't seem to be what happened, does it? Even if we accept that this conductor was on the point of being fired when he quit, the article indicates it was not for complaining about other trains being late but for spouting off about politics while on the job. Which is another kettle of fish, isn't it?
C) The delay other trains because of the political train is certainly problematic, but it happens with these private or group rental situations ALL THE TIME. For instance, when I took the Cardinal to Indianapolis, a private car was deadheading to Huntington from DC, where it would be used for some sort of special scenic return trip (I have a vague memory that the group renting it for that trip was corporate, not political, but I'm not sure). When we arrived in Huntington, late already, it took quite a bit of extra time to delink the private car, which made our train even later than it had been, and presumably delayed any freight lines on the route as well. I didn't mind; in fact, I'd been able to wangle a small private tour of the private car in DC when the train was being hooked up! (It was very pretty and interesting to see)
I had a far worse experience caused by that big group that goes between West Palm Beach and DC every January. I won't go into all the details here (unless you are interested) but my point is that these group sales can indeed sometimes be a nuisance and cause problems. But does that mean they shouldn't be done, because I personally don't always like them? I think the revenue they generate argues for having them.
And I for one really LIKE the idea of having whistle-stop tours by politicians on Amtrak trains. I like it not only because it's a wonderful historic tradition, and I generally like historic traditions, but also because I think all politicians should ride on Amtrak and see how beautiful so many of the routes are, and how much more wonderful they would be if the trains were properly funded. If we want politicians not to favor only the NE corridor, we need to get them out of the ACELAs and into the other routes.
Instead, I would imagine all this opposition-party complaining about the Kerry-Edwards train must have made that the first and last train that campaign ever took. And what a pity!
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Southwest Chief -- the whistle-stop tour by President Ford in 1976 was indeed on an AMTRAK train -- HOWEVER it was not on a SCHEDULED train (that is, the train did not carry any "regular" passengers, and it was not a "regular" run -- in fact, if I recall properly, that whistle stop tour took place before AMTRAK even started regular service to Lansing, Port Huron, and Toronto)
zephyr Member # 1651
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: ...Sounds like he could have been a loudmouth always spouting off...
I like the guy. Even where I don't agree with him, at least he is real. Where can I go to contribute to a "Farr for President" campaign?
sojourner Member # 3134
posted
He certainly sounds like an interesting character. But he also does sound like someone who would have trouble controlling his mouth and keeping his opinions from spurting forth, and who had trouble with that regularly, not a one-shot thing, doesn't he? I am like that too, so I recognize the quality. But luckily, I don't have a job dealing with the public, thank goodness. Nor am I a politician, double thank goodness!
Suspended without pay definitely does sound like a pretty hefty punishment, more hefty than he deserved. But I'd like to hear Amtrak's side of the story.
At any rate, thank you so much for the info, Mr Zephyr.
posted ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
) has campaigned while riding on a scheduled Amtrak train without at least using one private car. However the article doesn't give enough info to be sure there won't be a private car utilized. I think it's a nice idea to ride the real train like the rest of us, but again not enough info to be sure.