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The Roseburg Oregon paper "News-Review" ran a blurb on Friday about trying to get service returned to Baker City and Boise. Stating a letter had be sent to Amtrak CEO Alex Dummant and signed by two Senators, Wyden of Oregon and Crapo of Idaho and 3 congressmen. Last year I read of a "study" being requested by the same group. It is my understanding that the Pioneer used to run between Seattle/Portland and Denver. It is not clear to me how this is a good idea. People living between Portland and Baker City can use the Empire Builder 27/28 with little hardship and Amtrak Thruway's link Boise. As much as I would like to see the Pioneer restored I believe we can get more bang for the tax buck else where.
DeeCT Member # 3241
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Wayne,
Sometimes one person's "no problem" is another's "hardship".
I personally doubt it will ever get beyond the "study" stage. But Studies are meant to determine whether there is indeed a need for such service and what percentage of cost can be recovered from the fare box.
Also not sure whether there is any longer an Amtrak Thruway link to Boise. (Many of those bus links have been discontinued).
Dee
wayne72145 Member # 4503
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Boise is still connected to the California Zephyr by Thurway Buses. I agree it may be more of a problem for some riders to cross the Columbia for the Empire Builder or take the Thruway............in the mean time I will remain grateful for the long distance service that remains.
Mike Smith Member # 447
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Good news, HR 2095 {recently signed into law by Bush} mandates a study on the feasibility of restoring the Pioneer and several other trains within the next year.
We shall see...
George Harris Member # 2077
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quote:Originally posted by Mike Smith: Good news, HR 2095 {recently signed into law by Bush} mandates a study on the feasibility of restoring the Pioneer and several other trains within the next year.
We shall see...
It's a STUDY ! ! ! ! !
Call me when they pass an appropriation for whatever needs doing to make it happen.
amtraxmaniac Member # 2251
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Who would be the host railroad? How was OTP when we had it? I'm just curious.
A similar study should be done on restoring the Desert Wind, in MY opinion. There has been STUDY after STUDY done on restoring service to at least Las Vegas. In my opinion, this link up should take priority over the Pioneer. The problem with restoring the Desert Wind may have to do with the host railroad, which may not be as much of an issue with the Pioneer. That's why I asked.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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In either case, Patrick, it is the same road - and that road has managed to get their "traditional" system passenger train free.
Something tells me that Union Pacific has every intention of keeping it that way.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Studies, schmudies, chuddies -- when will it stop?!!!!!!!!! A "study", in my opinion, in most cases, translates as "it'll probably never get done"
Railroad Bob Member # 3508
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quote:Originally posted by wayne72145: It is my understanding that the Pioneer used to run between Seattle/Portland and Denver.
True, but to correct a tiny error, Mr. Wayne72145-- the now-deceased Pioneer under the Amtrak flag ran all the way through to CHI. I believe the train numbers assigned to it were 25/26. In its heyday, all the switching used to happen in the wee hours at the old Rio Grande depot in SLC, where the three trains were assenbled/disassembled. The 3 being the CA Zephyr #5/6, Pioneer #25/26 and the beloved Desert Wind from LA, #35/36. It was quite a RR operation with some interesting logistics. Sometimes one or more of the sections would be late, and Amtrak would have to come up with imaginative solutions, such as "alternate transportation." A resurrection of the old Pioneer, even a part of it, sounds like a good thing, but probably not likely in these austere times...
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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RR Bob, I believe the Pioneer was cut off/hooked up to the Zephyr/Desert Wind at Denver, not SLC. At least it was during the early to mid 1990s.
royaltrain Member # 622
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The e/b and w/b Zephyr, Pioneer and Desert Wind originally were assembled or disassembled(depending on direction of travel) in Salt Lake City, and then the operation was switched to Denver where the Pioneer which was at the end of the train was disconnected and continued on its way to Seattle. If memory serves me correctly the remaining two trains proceeded on to Salt Lake City where they were split apart and continued on to either Los Angeles or Emeryville.
rresor Member # 128
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For most of its life, the Pioneer ran either as a "stand alone" train from Salt Lake City to Seattle, or as a section of #5/#6 that split at Salt Lake City. I rode when the three-way split was still being done in 1991, getting on at SLC at the former UP station.
For just a couple of years (I think 1994 until discontinuance in 1996) the Pioneer was re-routed to return train service to Cheyenne and five other cities/towns in Wyoming. This meant dropping the Pioneer's cars in Denver, and then dropping the Desert Wind cars in SLC. I had some ridership data for 1995, and as I recall those six stops in Wyoming averaged, between then all, 10 passengers a day. So WY didn't contribute a lot of revenue, to be sure.
mr williams Member # 1928
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Am I right that at one stage towards the end the Pioneer didn't come into SLC at all, but a throughway bus linked into it some 30 - 40 miles north? (Ogden?)
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Quite correct, Mr. Williams. Ogden was the interchange point until D&RGW joined Amtrak during 1983 and the #5-6 Zephyr was rerouted over their rails.
yukon11 Member # 2997
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With the passage of Calif. High Speed Rail, prop 1A, in Calif there has also been some talk of a high speed train from Victorville, in Southern Calif, to Las Vegas along Highway 15. No talk about extending it to Salt Lake City. It could be funded by private sources, if that is possible.
The October TRAINS magazine had an interesting article on page 50 about the train routes of the presidential candidates in the 1948 election. I see there was a C&S train from Cheyenne, WY to Billings, Montana and then over to Butte, Montana. Does anyone know if the old Colorado and Southern tracks are still in place? The nice thing about that old run is that it looks like it came farily close to Yellowstone and nearby scenic country. Also a link to Ogden via the UP and linkage to NP/GN.
Also, if the Front Range Commuter Rail, from Albuquerque, NM to Casper, WY ever is established, it would also be a possible route into Wyoming.
Richard
George Harris Member # 2077
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: With the passage of Calif. High Speed Rail, prop 1A, in Calif there has also been some talk of a high speed train from Victorville, in Southern Calif, to Las Vegas along Highway 15.
Don't hold your breath. This has been tlaked about for quite a while. Rail, Maglev, Monrail, Atomic power, wind power, whatever. MAYBE, just MAYBE after Sand Fran to LA is up and running and gets good ridership, the legs to Sacramento and San Diego are under construction, and the Phoenix extension is planned, then Las Vegas might be on the way. (Why Phoenix? Becasue it makes a lot more sense than fantasyland-in-the-desert.)
ehbowen Member # 4317
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Now, now, Mr. Harris, Las Vegas is a city that inspires dreams. Certainly you've heard of the Angeleno who came to Las Vegas in a $50,000 Cadillac, and left in a $1.5 million Greyhound bus....
amtraxmaniac Member # 2251
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Eric...bringing about 40 of his new best friends back with him?
I agree, lets see LA to San Fran get built first. Secondly, why the heck run it just to Victorville?? Are you considering connecting bus or train service into the LA Basin? Doesn't make sense.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Eric:
That story is so old, that when I first heard it he went to Vegas in a brand new $4,000 Buick and returned in a $40,000 vehicle - a Greyhound bus. Unfortunately, way too true. Couple years ago a relative of a friend of ours found out her husband had cashed out all their assets to cover his gambling expenses before dissapearing to hide from those he could not pay.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Presumably proponents of the Meadows-Victorville rail service have in mind a bus feeder system to the entire LA Basin much like Amtrak operates at Bakersfield.
Regarding Messrs. Bowen and Harris's comments, "what's the big deal". Just put $100 (that is my personal comfort level of "loot to blow") in your pocket and when "that's gone, you're gone".
Southwest Chief Member # 1227
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quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: ...why the heck run it just to Victorville?? Are you considering connecting bus or train service into the LA Basin? Doesn't make sense.
Yeah it doesn't make much sense to start it in Victorville, especially with Cajon now triple tracked. But that's where I've heard it will start. That is if anything ever gets passed UP.
UP is still by far the biggest obstacle for any Vegas rail service.
ehbowen Member # 4317
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Regarding Messrs. Bowen and Harris's comments, "what's the big deal". Just put $100 (that is my personal comfort level of "loot to blow") in your pocket and when "that's gone, you're gone".
I agree. I'm not much of a gambler; I can probably count the number of times I put actual money on the line on the fingers of both hands. I can sit and play blackjack and poker simulations on a computer for hours, but when I made a visit to Ely, Nevada five years ago and decided to sit down at a blackjack table, I never felt comfortable with it. I got "up" about $35 or so, then started to lose and quit. I left about $23 up (and tipped the dealer those 3 dollar chips). A few days later, when I was in Reno, I decided to risk $40 at the roulette wheel. Minimum bet ($4), ten spins, same number. Lost all ten, then walked out and quit. It wasn't any fun; the whole time I was thinking, "This is real money!"
I have no quibble with people who enjoy playing in casinos, as long as they have some self-control and know when to cut their losses; my mother is one such. But I'm just not one of them.
amtraxmaniac Member # 2251
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Here's an idea for Las Vegas Service: how about a through train that splits off the SWC at Barstow? Didn't the Desert Wind run through Barstow? UP would still be an obstacle, but you've taken care of the getting over Cajon Pass issue. Just hook a few coaches on the back of the Chief, detach them at Barstow, and tie them to an extra locomotive waiting at Barstow. Las Vegas passengers would no longer have food service after 10pm (the lounge and diner would obviously continue with the SWC). No biggie. Food service normally on most LD's closes at 11 anyways. Same thing coming back. The Southboand would be late at night/very early AM so there would normally not have food service anyways.
Southwest Chief Member # 1227
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quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: Didn't the Desert Wind run through Barstow?
Sure did. She turned off the present day BNSF mainline at Dagget for the present day UP mainline to Vegas and beyond. It eventually hooked up with the Pioneer and Cal Zephyr in Salt Lake City. Here's an online Route Guide of the Desert Wind that should be helpful.
I took the Desert Wind many times, not the best of trains and more often then not the lone F40 had troubles. But troubles aside, it was a very nice connection and I wish it was still around.
Urdahere Member # 8938
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Hey, if you watching Law and Order right now, 10:12 PM, you're missing Extreme Trains (The Acela) Flip that channel.
Joe
George Harris Member # 2077
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Since we are talking about Las Vegas to Los Angeles, have no fear: $45 million has been appropriated to study the building of a Las Vegas to Primm NV MAGLEV which is to run at 240 mph.
Since the early in Amtrak West Verginia trains were nicknamed "Harley's Hornets" after the WV senator, will these be the "Harried Harry's" after Nevada senator Harry Ried?
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