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Let me apologise in advance as I am sure I have asked this before but - being a bit decrepit - have forgotten/can't immediately find the answer.
Is the scenery better travelling westwards on the CZ and then the other way on the Southwest Chief?
Additionally: the Starlight is scheduled to arrive in LAX from Emeryville at 2100 (or later if some posters are to be heeded). Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced hotel in a safe area, possibly near to the local entertainment amenities eg. Universal Studios and the best way to travel to the hotel from Union Station at what could be a fairly late time of night? I heard the Hollywood area can be a bit iffy.
Sorry if this sounds a bit wimpish - probably watched too many CSI type programmes!
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Stephen, this is one of these "you ask two different Accountants (note lawyers, I'm giving you a pass and instead picking on my own profession), you get two different answers".
#5 WB Zephyr is considered by most to be the superior routing, as the Westward ascent of the Rockies will be during Daylight regardless of when you are to make this journey or if the train is late. Such is to be the most spectacular scenery visible from a scheduled passenger train in North America (it's right up there with your Glasgow-Fort William-Mallaig journey). The Chief has "interesting' scenery, visible Eastward or WW, especially for a European who simply is not exposed to a "moonscape' such as is our Southwest (Spain to me resembles much of California).
Hotels in LA, The Biltmore is reasonably close (but a taxicab if at night and laden with baggage) to LAUPT. I've stayed there in the past - on both company dime and my own.
This is right downtown, near the top of the hill atop which sits the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion and the new Disney Hall. Standard room ~$105+tx. Longish walk (uphill) from Union Station, short taxi ride. The Red Line subway runs nearby and goes right to Hollywood and Universal; actually you could take the Red Line from Union Station to within a block or two of the hotel. There's a lot to do in LA and I have found most of it can be done via public transit which is actually quite good. This website is very helpful: http://experiencela.com/ I would definitely plan on taking the RapidBus to Santa Monica, which goes through some interesting areas, and visit the Getty Museum.
20th Century Member # 2196
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As Mr. Norman states,the CZ is better westbound. It is a spectacular ride up the front range and through the Rockies.
dns8560 Member # 15184
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As the CZ pulls out of Denver there is an air of excitement aboard the train. Climbing The Front Range of The Rockies is the main event of the ride. The rails lead back and forth across the mountainside. The train climbs higher and higher. Denver looks tiny from the windows of the Sightseer Lounge. These are big mountains! The train starts plunging into short tunnels and across trestles high above mountain cascades. Off into the distance you can see The Great Plains, and you can appreciate their flat vastness. Strangers on the train start talking to anyone nearby about the fantastic journey up into the mountains. You might even think who ever built the line was mad. The ride is just plain astonishing. Finally you reach The Moffat Tunnel. You pass beneath the crests of the Front Range. Then it's snow-capped mountains and raging rivers all the way across Colorado.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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OTOH,
On a clear night, the descent of the Front Range into Denver can be truly fantastic. It spreads out seemingly forever.
train lady Member # 3920
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One year we were on the CZ enroute to the west coast. It was May 1 but it was snowing as we left Denver It soon stopped and as we came out of the first tunnel after the storm the sight was so magnificant everyone in the lounge broke into applause. The woman sitting next to me said that God was giving us a special present.I have felt like that ever since
palmland Member # 4344
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Nice story, train lady. In grad school, I was dating a young lady and we took a short excursion on the CZ in the winter with snow blowing but with a brilliant sun. We returned that same afternoon on the Yampa Valley Mail. It was a memorable 'date'.
Of course the rest of the story is we were married a year later and now 40 years after that we are planning another CZ trip.
train lady Member # 3920
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I have a picture of the train in the snow as it was rounding the curve. You got a memorable wife
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Wholly concur, Ms. Train Lady, as I have met Mr. Palmland and Miss Mary face-to-face.
Stephen W Member # 6059
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Thanks for all these tips etc.
Assuming the CZ westwards and the Chief eastwards, on which sides of the train do I want a roomette please to take advantage of the best scenery? Are there any particular roomette nos to request/avoid? I would like to wave to Mr Norman if that is possible too!
Railroad Bob Member # 3508
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Stephen, you are getting some really good advice here; I will second GBN's Biltmore recommendation. You will fall asleep in the true heart of LA here; the place is full of marvelous history; for example, the very first Academy Awards were presented here, and there are nice pictures of it in the Lobby-- you'll also get "angels in the architecture" to paraphrase an old Paul Simon song. In the morning, you'll be at Pershing Square Red Line station right outside the Biltmore, so you can access the LA Metro easily. It's urban, so there will be some homeless and hangers-on milling about; nothing to worry about. For a lower price point hotel even more convenient to LAUS, try the Metro Plaza, which is walking distance from the station. (213.680.0200.) Have fun in one of America's most interesting big cities...
Oh, Mr. Norman will be to your left going east, at his famous milepost eighteendotthirtyfour. Correct, GBN?
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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Personally, I prefer Bedroom E. Then you have a window in your room, and the hallway window for when the view is superior on the other side.
Not every sleeper is aligned A end forward. For going up the Front Range, you pretty much want to be on the right hand side of the train. From the end of Moffatt Tunnel to Grand Junction, you want to be on the left hand side of the train. In Nevada, you want to be again on the right hand side of the train.
Eastbound on 4 ... frankly (and having travelled with it aboard), I prefer a seat in the Pleasure Dome.
palmland Member # 4344
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I agree Train Lady!
Pullman Co. - on the way to my wedding, as mentioned above - I was able to take the all Pullman section of the Super Chief as far as Flagstaff (Christmas season 68/69). The Pleasure dome was definitely that.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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Stourbridge Lion Member # 1796
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Check out my topic here from a recent trip that includes video going both directions and decide which direction you liked better...
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Stephen W, the scenery is really spectacular either way on the CZ--of course, it's the same scenery!!! but if the CZ happens to be substantially late (and that used to happen a lot, though I gather it's been better lately), you can miss quite a bit of scenery if you do it eastbound; that won't happen westbound. What's more, the same is true, in reverse, of the SW Chief (that train used not to be late a lot, but I have heard of a few incidents in more recent years)--if it were really late westbound, you would miss the most spectacular part of the ride, the red rocks west of Albuquerque. So that's why your wisest course would be westbound on the CZ, eastbound on the SW Chief.
As for the anticipation Train Lady describes, I agree, it's heartstoppingly spectacular, spiritual, really something. But you do have that on whichever train you take westbound--the anticipation of the mountains after the Plains. I think there's more of it after you leave Denver on the CZ, with the tunnel, and the real Rockies . . . and you have it again when you get out of the ugly part of Nevada and anticipate the Sierra Nevada/Donner Pass. OTOH the anticipation of the Raton Pass/tunnel into NM on the SW Chief is good too . . . but for me that one is a little more equally exciting in either direction, so you don't need to be going west . . . so anyway, I really recommend the CZ west.
BUT the most important thing of all to check is when the CZ is making its summer detours--you do NOT want to take it on any of those days!
Regarding roomette: It's really a moot point, because you want to be in the observation/lounge car, not your roomette, for all of this scenery.
ehbowen Member # 4317
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Re the hotel: If you are on a budget, you will likely find no better choice than the Hollywood/Vermont Travelodge. The price is cheap, the rooms are clean and the neighborhood is acceptable. It is located only one block from the Red Line subway station direct to/from Union Station, or if you prefer a taxicab it is only a five mile trip. I stayed there with family members three years ago and would stay there again if on a tight budget.
Stephen W Member # 6059
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Thank you all for your great suggestions re the trip and the recommended hotels in LA.
I hadn't thought about summer diversions - as the trip is likely to be early to late May is that too early for them?
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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The Grand Canyon would be a nice diversion in May. Some of the other mountain National Parks might still have some snow. Flagstaff is one of the nicest little stations in the country. Rental cars are in the depot and the whole downtown is within easy walking distance. There is bus transportation to the Canyon and of course the railway from Williams, which is highly recommended.
Stephen W Member # 6059
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Sorry, I meant to say detour rather than diversion!
Is the weather generally wintery in May around the Rockies and possibly disruptive of train journeys? I was rather concerned when I read about a snow storm on May 1 related by train lady - I want to avoid any bustitution (prone to travel sickness on long road journeys) due to adverse weather if I can.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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Snow is not a problem for train movement in May. There is the slim possibility of flooding or large rocks on the CZ tracks in Colorado, but May is one of the best times for longer daylight and uncrowded trains. Some of the high elevation attractions reached on foot or by car in the Rockies can still be under snow in May though.
notelvis Member # 3071
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I don't know if there is a 'preferred' direction of travel on the Southwest Chief other than going eastward the Chief is more likely to arrive near on-time than is the California Zephyr.
It is generally accepted by most on this forum that if you're going for the first time and only going one way, it is far preferable to ride the California Zephyr westbound.
Personally.......having done most of the 'preferred directions', I'm thinking eastbound for my next Zephyr trip......I may even do a fall or early spring ride just to increase the probability of a nocturnal descent into Denver.
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: Some of the high elevation attractions reached on foot or by car in the Rockies can still be under snow in May though.
Agreed. A few years ago during May I drove up the old Rollins Pass, which is the old route before the Moffat Tunnel was built. I only got 4 miles up before snow stopped me, barely 140m (460') above East Portal. It might have been unusual, I don't know, but I had hoped to get as far as Yankee Doodle Lake, about another 5 miles.
palmland Member # 4344
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North of the Rollins Pass road is Trail Ridge Road - through Rocky Mtn. NP. Usually it does not open until June.
train lady Member # 3920
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We were in Rocky MT National park in july of 1973. There were huge piles of snow along the road at the top . Our kids were delighted.The year we saw the snow out of Denver we were up in Alberta at the glacier. We had planned to have a Picnic lunch after returning from the ride there. Well the parking lot of the Retaurant where one got the food had piles of snow 6ft.tall so our picnic was in the car. That was May 6,
dns8560 Member # 15184
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Does anyone know where I can find an online map of the route of the CZ out of Denver up the mountains?
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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Dns8560, there are lots and lots of resources online for that particular route because it is so popular with railfans. Google Earth will show aerial photography and, if you have the appropriate layers turned on, roads and rails superimposed on to it. I'm sure Virtual Earth and other providers will do the same.
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The map put out by the State of Colorado includes rail lines. As a map geek, I consider Colorado's state map to be one of the best. It shows a graphic representation of the mountains which is easy to read and detailed. You could probably find a way to order one on the web from the state tourism department.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Eventually I will publish my SLC-DEN AMTRAK route guide on my web site, with a link to route maps on Snapfish. At this point, however, that route is not a priority (even though it has already been completed by me)-- maybe I'll go ahead and post it later this year.
dns8560 Member # 15184
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Thanks for the info. I looked on Mapquest, Google maps, and Microsoft Streets & Trips and could not find the route out of Denver Union Station. I'm pretty sure a back up move is required there. Tracks were shown, just nothing leading west into the mountains.
Stourbridge Lion Member # 1796
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Yes, Amtrak has to back into Union Station.
I sent you a PM also...
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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Starting from here, find Union station near the bottom. Going westwards you'll turn left underneath Fox St, over the river, then due north to the Utah Jn area. Turn left to head almost due west (northwest is where the Utah diversionary route goes) until you get to 95 (is that SR-95?), then turn right. The line heads west, slightly northerly, before the junction of 72/93 (Rocky siding). This is where the fun starts in earnest. THe line turns to the left, straight, left again, then a full 270 degree turn right to parallel the straight mentioned earlier, but somewhat higher. A bit further on and your first tunnel, and the siding of Plainview where - unsurprisingly - you have a good view of Denver. Crescent, Pinecliffe, Rollinsville, and finally East Portal follow.
Yes, the train backs into Denver US. It's sometimes hard to see how on maps because the tracks follow underneath a highway overpass for a quarter of a mile or so. The satellite view can be better sometimes - you can see the yard (BNSF?) between I-25 and the river where trains from the west turn left into after passing under I-25, proceed forwards, and then back into DUS via the tracks not shown on the street map view.
Hope that's of some use.
dns8560 Member # 15184
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Thanks Geoff! Now I can see the entire line from DU to SLC. Interestingly, the SLC Amtrak Station shows no tracks either. It also appears I-70 covers much of the view of the line in CO.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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In SLC, the AMTRAK line goes down the center of several streets around the station; that's why the tracks are not shown in Google maps, or whatever you were looking at.
Yes, I-70 follows the CZ route through Colorado from Dotsero westward all the way into Utah, at Crescent Juction (near Green River and Arches Nat'l Park)
I'll get my route maps and guide for SLC-DEN up on the web site later this year
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