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An interesting tangential thought was raised at another topic which holds the potential for interesting and worthwhile discussion. Such is whether Amtrak should consider offering private accommodations on various Corridor routes - particularly the Northeast.
The railroads generally offered day Drawing Rooms in their Parlor Cars. On the Corridor, the PRR even had one car on the two Congressional sets that was entirely configured with Drawing Rooms, while the other Parlor Cars (also assigned to the Senator) had one Drawing Room within. Heavyweight Pullman Parlor Cars also had a Drawing Room.
The New Haven also had cars with both Drawing Rooms and Day Roomettes, which were assigned to the "premier" NY-Boston Yankee Clipper and Merchants Limited.
Obviously the roads, including my MILW, held there was adequate demand for the Drawing Rooms, for if there were not, they would not have been included in the configuration of lightweight Parlors. However the Roomettes on the New Haven? Those just seemed to end up as the Conductor's "office" or the Porter's broom closet.
Now to turn to contemporary passenger railroading, I would think that Amtrak could experiment at little cost to determine demand for private 'areas" as distinct from rooms. On the Acela sets in both Coach (whoops Business) and First Class cars, there could be thick but light colored curtains placed around the center-car facing seats and tables (make sure there are those all-important 110VAC outlets in abundance). An example of such is the 'crew rest" areas that likely anyone here who has had occasion to fly overseas has surely noticed. These areas would be sold with a "three rail" minimum (and even "four rails" if the train was expected to be sold), and if unsold, say, an hour before departure, would be released for general sale with the curtains removed and stored. If demand is there, consider the service's expansion to other routes, if not, what has really been lost save some fabric?
But the fully enclosed room, I think will only be confined to the existing LD train Sleeping Cars. What I must question is whether Amtrak could be more aggressive in marketing rooms for routes such as MSP-CHI, KCY-CHI and even NYP-WAS on the Crescent and Silvers.
palmland Member # 4344
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I remember seeing those drawing rooms on the Congressional. On at least one occasion it was filled with cigar smoke. Ah, those were the days!
I don't see the need for daytime rooms on the NEC (but would love to see lower daytime rates in roomettes on LD trains elsewhere). Now a couple small rooms that could be used for conference seating for business types traveling together might be a good idea.
For the rest of us, my preference would be the 1/1 swivel chair seating of parlor (business) cars as on the PRR back in the day. Amtrak does know how to do that, as they are alive and well in a portion of the PPC on the Starlight.
amtrak92 Member # 14343
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I would like to see the old Parlors back, and private rooms too. I would like to see some more sleepers for day use
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Many years ago, when I first began riding AMTRAK, there was an accomodation called "seat in a roomette," which was a daytime roomette accomodation, for a lower price than the overnight room would cost, with the restriction that the passenger in such accomodation was not allowed to turn down the bed (did anyone actually monitor such activity?......). Does AMTRAK still offer that accomodation/fare?
rresor Member # 128
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When I was a child, my mother would often take me and my sisters from NY to WAS and return in a day drawing room on the PRR. I remember both lightweight cars and some old heavyweights with those wonderful rotating overstuffed armchairs. It was nice having a private space to play in.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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For the benefit of our younger members, here are the rotating swivel seats referred to by Messrs. Palmland and Resor. Like Mr. Resor, I knew them well; in fact my very first train ride in this life during 1946 (age 5) GCT to Westerly with my Mother and Grandmother was in one of such shared with my Sister.
But so far as the pictured celebrity "showing off' his posture, best advice would have been "don't try this yourself".
But oh well, at least he has something on that resembles a necktie; during my childhood and adolescence all I can say is "God help me" if I ever considered riding on a public conveyance with anything less than a jacket and tie.
Finally of interest, the MetroClub MU's were the last cars to be built with traditional 1-1 swivel Parlor seats.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Any inclination I might have to make a teasing retort about coat-and-tie stuffiness is negated by one too many memories of hairy and tattooed fellows in wife-beater undershirts in the lounge car.
I suppose for those folks the term "smart casual' means wearing shoes.
navybanker Member # 16430
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You are bringing back to me fond memories of the Day Cape Codder - Grand Central to Woods Hole - in a day drawing room. Of course the chance to get off in New Haven to stand on the platform and watch the electric engine pull away and the steam locomotive back magnificantly into place can never return, whatever passenger equipment decisions Amtrak might make.
palmland Member # 4344
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thanks for the photo, GBN. Brings back memories of my youth (maybe including the posture) when my brother and I took an all day ride on B&O's Metropolitan Special from Cincinnati to Washington.
Our accommodations were two parlor seats, like those pictured. The car was a heavyweight. Half was parlor seating and the other half a diner with cook and waiter/steward. But the menu was the real deal with linen and silverware. No wonder the B&O exited their Balt-NYC market about that time and was close to bankrupt (but saved by the wealthy C&O).
We were the only occupants of that car and were treated to many stories by the flagman who took us under his wing and let us stand in the rear vestibule for part of the trip. And yes, coats and ties were the order of the day. Amazingly I even took a few photos. We searched in vain for steam on that trip, but it had exited I believe the year before. So we had to settle for FT units on coal drags and B&O's immaculate E's on passenger. One photo shows the crew, including cook, at Grafton staring at our lead truck with a suspected hotbox. But, we kept rolling down 17 mile grade.
amtrak92 Member # 14343
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I wish I would have been on that train with John. I have actually done that pose on a train before. Great story Palmland.
Judy McFarland Member # 4435
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The private day-space idea sounds great to me. I like my "space" and especially bathrooms that are not used by the thousands. What about something like a "day room rate" but NOT including meals and only sold within 48 hours of departure. Could be a way to maximize use of sleeper rooms not purchased in advance. I think the key would be to not make this space available too far in advance to keep rooms from not being available to long-distance thru travelers.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Great idea Ms. McFarland....60 Mass are you reading?
I would like to think that the reservation system could ensure that only rooms that have been sold "down line' would be made available for day room sale. For example a room already sold KCY to LAX would be available for the faithful making the Hajj from CHI to Mecca (whoops; LAP). After all, wouldn't it be "sport' if some party booked every room on the train, say #3 CHI to GBB and in the process deprived Amtrak of CHI-LAX sales.
Treat these Day Room sales like what the trucking industry calls a "backhaul'. No use of the bunks (place a seal on them to ensure compliance) and no meal service should make the rate "attractive'.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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The car attendants may not welcome the prospect of more cleanup, and the creative ideas folks might have for what they could do in private (like various forms of smoking). But I like the idea. If tipping could be established as a traditon it might help.
20th Century Member # 2196
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I also like the idea. We have travelled during the day on the Coast Starlight from Oakland to Santa Barbara in a roomette and it was very enjoyable. I would very much enjoy traveling from Trenton to Boston in a private room, or from Trenton to Savannah in a private room on the Palmetto.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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This idea is growing on me. Maybe if we all write to Amtrak and suggest it, it might happen.
Just checked AmSnag for a departure from Chicago to La Plata on #3 November 1. Fare is $61, additional roomette charge $114, both lowest bucket. Even with dinner included in that first class price, that's steep.
If Amtrak could knock that down to say $60 additional, no dinner, I bet they could fill those empty roomettes.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Even though I was first to suggest the sale of otherwise unsold rooms aboard The Crescent and Silvers, I doubt if the Operating Department would support any such moves. I'm sure they are quite happy to know that the last Northbound unconditional stop is either Richmond or Manassas. Southbound Alexandria is the first unconditional.
In the case of conditional stops to discharge passengers a train can arrive and depart whenever it wants. To receive, they must wait for the advertised time.
Therefore I'm sure Amtrak operations appreciates having the latitude of 'slotting" these trains wherever convenient - and with their leisurely 4hr schedules over the Corridor there is plenty of room for the NB's to recover time if necessary. The on-board crews become "geared" to discharging passengers, and not concerned about boarding same.
Selling rooms for a journey within the Corridor would require that the stops become unconditional
palmland Member # 4344
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Didn't Amtrak do this for daytime trips within Florida? Wonder why that went away as it is a good idea. Too bad Amtrak doesn't participate with the faithful in some type of internet forum to discuss this type of idea.
I wonder if formalizing the onboard upgrade might work. For instance, any unsold space 24 hours before departure would be available for a flat fee depending on distance (one rate for short haul daytime, another for one overnight, and another for longer trips).
This would be similar to what airlines do for first class upgrades and would allow passengers to get confirmed space before boarding. It would avoid the hassle of last minute on board upgrades that might depend on the inclination of the conductor to handle the paperwork.
yukon11 Member # 2997
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I like the idea of day roomettes if they could be booked for either 1 or 2 passengers. The privacy would be welcomed.
Thinking about just the opposite, has Amtrak ever thought of bringing back the idea of "sleeper-only" trains, similar to the old Trans-Canada Limited from Montreal to Vancouver?
Perhaps New York to Sacramento, 3x/week? It would avoid the expense of seperate trains and train transfers for sleeping car passengers going coast-to-coast. Well, just a thought.
Richard
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Richard, All-Pullman trains were gone before A-Day. The Panama Limited added Coaches during October 1967 and the Broadway Limited was gone that December:
With six Sleepers and its separate Dining and Lounge facilities for each class (four Coaches), Auto Train is as close as you'll come to an all-Sleeper train on Amtrak.
Regarding Coast to Coast trains, The Sunset was "it' - Amtrak or railroads. Amtrak did operate for a while during the later 80's the Chief and Capitol Limited as an LA-Wash through train; through Sleeper passengers were permitted to occupy their accommodations during the layover.
As a "postwar' innovation, railroads established a number of Coast to Coast Pullman lines through Chicago; passengers were permitted to occupy the cars as, say, one was switched from La Salle to Dearborn Station making the "Century to Super" transfer. However all of those through lines were discontinued during 1958.
Within the movie "The Band Wagon", there is a scene in which Fred Astaire arrives in New York "on the Century'. Such appeared to be filmed in GCT and showed the Century's consist (background what else) and an ATSF 4-4-2 'Regal--' was visible.
posted
In the 70's there were also Amtrak thru sleeper cars switched from the National Limited (from NY and DC) to the Chief in Kansas City. I was on one in 1977 and slept soundly through the KC transfer.
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: .
As a "postwar' innovation, railroads established a number of Coast to Coast Pullman lines through Chicago; passengers were permitted to occupy the cars as, say, one was switched from La Salle to Dearborn Station making the "Century to Super" transfer. However all of those through lines were discontinued during 1958.
And, I think that "postwar" innovation came as a response to the fact that hogs could travel coast to coast in stockcars without changing in Chicago, but people couldn't.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Here's more on Robert R Young's 'A hog can cross America by train...." comment:
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