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My wife and I plan to travel on the Texas Eagle soon. We have not taken this route before. They claim to have a "Cross Country Cafe". What is this? As sleeping car passengers, our meals are part of the trip. What can we expect?
We are tavelling from Maricopa, Arizona to Chicago and back. We are looking forward to the trip.
Dean
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Konstantin, Cross Country Cafe is Amtrak's marketing name for the 370XX Diner Lounges. There are seventeen such cars all rebuilt from 380XX Diners. Presently, they are assigned to 21-22 Eagle, 58-59 City, and 29-30 Capitol Limited. Those cars unassigned "fill-in" for regular 380XX Diners, as all kitchen facilities remain in place on the Lower level.
Originally, during the Bush administration's "rationalizing" initiatave, the intent was to convert most 380XX Diners and 330XX Lounges to Food Service cars. They were to have been assigned one or two per train depending upon supply and demand. However, after the conversion of seventeen cars proceeded, that plan was scrapped with all Superliner LD trains retaining separate Dining and Lounge cars.
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Actually, trains 29/30 have reverted back to operating with normal 38000 series diner as of approx 6-8 weeks ago. However a 37000 series car is kept at Ivy City on a regular basis (the only superliner kept there on regular basis) presumably as a "when needed" replacement for shopped diner or lounge.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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If I could figure out how to attach a picture to this forum, I would. So I'll do my best at describing it for you.....
Have you ever been inside a Superliner Dining Car? If so, a Cross Country Lounge is a converted diner. Just picture in your mind the center serving area as being the "divider", where one half of the car is for "lounging", and the other half is for "dining". The booth seating that you are used to in the Dining Car has been removed, and it has been replaced by round-ish booths where the seats face INWARD!! They do not face the windows.
I was a big critic of these cars way before the first car went into the shops to get rebuilt into Cross Country Cafe cars. I wish I could remember the dollar figure, but I want to say it was approximately $2 million per car? They *ruined* perfectly good diners and turned them into garbage. They look nice to the eye when you first walk into them...they did a good job with the colors and all that stuff. But for practical purposes, they are rotten. It's hard to sit there and enjoy a dinner while talking to other passengers like you can in a normal booth because the booth is curved and the table is at an awkward angle/position.
Back when these stupid things were put together, I said that Amtrak was flushing money down the toilet because they will find that the concept does not work, and they'll end up ripping them apart again and putting them back the way they were. I still believe that this will happen, as they have already been proven to be unpopular with both the passengers and employees. Amtrak has ALWAYS had this "thing" about reinventing the wheel. Since it's not their money (it's ours), I guess that's why it happens.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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I *hate* to do this, but I will provide a link to a website that I dislike greatly. I'm only doing this to help you so that you can see what it looks like:
If you're not a member, you will only see thumbnail pictures....but it should be good enough to satisfy your curiosity.
(PS: Don't sign up for that website...too much money, and the "webmaster" is heavy handed. He deletes comments if you're not his buddy, and if you do something that he doesn't like, he'll send you an email and call you names.)
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Based upon Mr. MDRR's report, and who "does this stuff for a living", that 29-30, Capitol Ltd, has now been assigned 380XX Diners, that means only six 370XX "Cross Country' Cafe's are assigned (three each) to 21-22, Eagle, and 58-59 City. I hope the responsible party can find some way to justify the remaining eleven cars @ a reported $1.5M a pop. Possibly a Diner on 27-28, Portland Builder (five cars), but I think that has been considered and apparently been ruled down by Amtrak.
Wholly concur with Mr. (Andy) Smith's thought; what a waste.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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I've dined on several occasions in the Cross Country Cafes and did not mind them at all. In fact, the CCC seating was a little easier on my bad back than the rumpsprung cushions in some of the older dining cars.
That said, I'm glad the Texas Eagle and City of New Orleans have the Sightseer lounge cars now instead of expecting the CCCs to do both jobs, especially when passenger loads are high.
Smitty, I concur about trainorders.com, and to that would add railroad.net.
Konstantin Member # 18
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Thank you for all of your answers. It sounds like it should be just fine, maybe a little different experience than a regular dining car. I was afraid it would be more like a snack car, rather than full meals being served. Snacks are fine for a short distances, but when we are travelling the entire route, we want some full meals.
I don't know much about trainorders, but I have had a similar experience with a non-railroad related website like that. I made a minor critical comment, and the moderator kicked me out.
Mr. Kisor, your California Zephyr book is excellent.
Dean
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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I was exposed to the "what a waste' experience during June 2010 on my Jackson joyride. The SB #59 "City" had two 370XX in consist - one was the Diner and the other the Lounge. For the Diner, tables were set only in the long end; the others were used for nothing. For the Lounge, the Attendant was at the Snack Bar; tables were used in the short end, the long end was the Conductor's "office".
It seems like those folk that we send off to The Hill sure know make the rhetoric about saving money, but they sure know how to spend it in the process. Only problem here; the money was spent, yet I highly doubt if it generated one dime of savings.
While I personally could care less about Lounge Cars, I realize they are a feature of LD train travel that many here look forward to. I would think that those who consider the Lounge "something they paid for" would have been disappointed with my SB "City' (CONO in forumese) journey.
palmland Member # 4344
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Certainly the CCC was a waste of money. But there was nothing wrong with the idea - to have a combined diner-lounge. This was done successfully many times pre-Amtrak. In fact I thought the cars were ok for the intended use, but once again Amtrak failed to execute the idea.
When in use, I don't believe the lounge area has ever been used, so the crew has to make do with half a diner on crowded trains. Now if Amtrak had deployed them on daytime or overnight trains with smaller passenger load, it might work. The Portland connection, that GBN mentions, the Cardinal, or some of the midwest corridor trains would be a much better use.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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Exactly...a long day trip, or a quick overnight trip is much better suited for these cars. But even on an overnight trip, I think a full diner (or full lounge) is needed to go along with the CCC. Can you imagine having only this car on the Zephyr or Chief? Not that this was ever planned (at least I don't think it was), but just the idea of it....
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by smitty195: Can you imagine having only this car on the Zephyr or Chief? Not that this was ever planned (at least I don't think it was), but just the idea of it....
That is exactly what the Bush/Mineta "overseers" had in mind as part of "rationalization" - converting most all of the Diners and Lounges to Food Service Cars. They would have been assigned "supply and demand" one to low volume trains, and two to the higher.
Auto Train would have been the only train, remember it is Rep. Mica's (R-FL7) pet, to survive with existing Dining and Lounge service.
Those who enjoy riding LD's (remember, that includes me) can be thankful that plan was shelved. The 370XX Diner-Lounges are perfectly attractive cars with Beech Grove's usual high quality workmanship. Just one problem; there is nowhere on the existing Amtrak system for which they are suited. If the medium-distance trains like the Adirondack, Palmetto, Pennsylvanian, and Maple Leaf were assigned Superliners, that would be one thing, but that of course is a can't happen. If any of the 330XX Lounges were so converted as planned and if The Cardinal were again to be a Wash-Chi only train, then that would have been a good "fit", but ridership suggests that the present through NY-Chi train does better than did the former "change at Washington" arrangement.
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