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This is from the President of the Florida Coalition of Rail Passengers:
" Here is information on a rally that will be held to push for restoration of the line between New Orleans and Jacksonville or beyond. Please join us if you can. I will be attending along with Bob Stewart, Chariman of NARP, and Bill Hutchinson, also of NARP. Hope to see you there for this vital rally.
Event Details Who: Representatives from Cities and Counties of North Florida What: Press Conference urging State and Federal Officials to Restore Amtrak Passenger Service Where: Tallahassee Amtrak Station, 918 1⁄2 Railroad Avenue Tallahassee, FL 32310 When: February 27 @ 10:30 a.m. "
I realize I've noted all of these thoughts regarding restoration of the pre-existing 100% Federally funded Sunset East around here before, but lest we forget:
1) The weakest segment of the weakest LD route.
2) No political "patron saint".
3) "Not even in the league" with comparable highway travel times.
However, I still remain concerned that Amtrak's "temporary suspension' in place of the 180 Day Notice under ARAA '97 could backfire. It would really be a waste of resources if some oversight body made Amtrak put it back on, for it would only be gone 181 days later.
All that would be accomplished is a "we taught you a lesson" moment.
Now if the thrust of this meeting is to determine feasability of JAX-TLH "Corridor service' (last time I checked Florida residents can still petition their Government), that would be a step in the right direction, but the only source of funding for such would be Local level. While there is always the possibility of a "thaw" in Florida's strong State level resistance to an intercity network - potential ridership for such notwithstanding, but with now two HSR projects "whacked", I cannot really envision such.
I only give service over the FEC a 50-50, but if somehow JAX-MIA Corridor trains start someday, then maybe there would be a glimmer of hope for JAX-TLH.
palmland Member # 4344
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Not so sure about item 2, Corrine Brown is a Congresswoman from Florida whose district includes Jax down to Sanford. She's vocal, but I'm not sure how effective. From her web site:
"Congresswoman Brown has been a member of the Committee on Transportation & Infrastructure since coming to Congress. In the 110th and 11th Congresses, Brown was picked to Chair the Transportation Subcommittee on Railroads, Pipelines and Hazardous Materials. This subcommittee is very important to Florida and the Third District because of its jurisdiction over the passenger and freight rail industry, which plays a vital role in Florida's economy."
But I think we all know that Amtrak will be lucky to keep what it has in the next couple years and restoring the Sunset is certainly not likely. I concur with GBN, Amtrak's scarce funding would be better spent elsewhere.
But if this is pursued, perhaps a better approach would be to say that in lieu of restoring the Sunset via its former route, Amtrak should restore it via Atlanta using a connection off the Crescent. An overnight train from ATL to JAX or SAV to meet the Star/Meteor would make a lot more sense to me. It certainly has a much larger population to draw from.
sojourner Member # 3134
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What stops would it make along the way?
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Palmland, where do they come with these gerrymandered congressional districts:
I have been aware that Rep. Brown (D-FL3) has been a long standing friend of Amtrak. I'm not sure why in view of that Sanford is within "Amtrak killer (except Auto Train)" Rep. Mica's (R-FL7) district.
But then friends in this life beyond the Facebook varietal are scarce enough; you get 'em from wherever you can.
Finally and WAAAY OT, my IL 13th Congressional District has always been a square smack in DuPage County. The Republican Representative has always been "Congresscritter-for-Life". However with redistricting owing to Illinois losing one seat (and Demmies calling the shots), I'm now in the 6th - and the 13th's incumbent is having to do something she has never done in some eight terms - run ads and campaign (she has been unopposed at times in the past).
Just think, in the almost thirty three years I've lived at my address, I just might be about to have a first - being represented in Congress by a Democrat.
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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Florida, like the rest of the nation, is caught up in redistricting based on the 2010 census. My "Congresscritter-for-Life" Cliff Stearns may be in trouble; not so sure about Brown.
Anyway, as far as how "they come with these gerrymandered congressional districts," it's simply about drawing lines on a map in order to concentrate your political opponents to as few geographic areas as possible. D's in Florida substantially outnumber R's, but R's control the state legislature which controls the way the lines are drawn, so we have a self-perpetuating system (even though a ballot measure specifically designed to put an end to this passed resoundingly).
SilverStar092 Member # 2652
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I must disagree about the Sunset East being of little value. For we Floridians, it was a critical link to the west and midwest without having to take the routing via Washington or New York. Across North Florida it offered a reasonably priced option for travel to and from downstate points though that was better when the train ran to Miami. Airfares are absurd around these parts and highway travel from one end of the state to the other is very long and tiring. Patronage on the Sunset was okay until the train got a reputation for excessive tardiness then it tailed off. Using Katrina as an excuse to ax the train was ridiculous and Amtrak has since circumvented their mandate by "suspending" service while still listing it is "to be determined" in the timetable. Indeed a better option might have been to extend the City of New Orleans to Florida rather than the delay prone Sunset and, yes, a Chicago-Atlanta-Florida train would have been an even better move. But that's not gonna happen and Amtrak owes the public service it committed to run without political pressure and that is unlikely to happen.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Turner, be it noted I used Sunset East twice in this life during Feb '02 and '04 as part of a ORL-1-NOL-58-CHI routing.
Pre-Amtrak, my one ride over the route was Mobile-NO on the "Pan Am" - never rode the Gulf Wind even though thanks to its round end "Royal--" Obs, I am a published TRAINS photographer.
Finally, and regarding your comment on air transportation; there is sticker shock enough at present....but "ain't seen nothing yet' with $5/ga about to arrive at a pump near you (hope your Chevy SUV isn't too thirsty - your photo of such suggests it's not the truck one of my McMansionite neighbors has - "We have three teen aged kids; we need it", and judging from when I "saw 'em off' for an Xmas trip, they do).
palmland Member # 4344
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Silver Star, I don't think anyone would argue that there needs to be a better rail option to get from the mid south to Florida than via Washington; a route I'm about to experience to see a couple spring training games.
But, how do you get the most bang for the buck in our strange Amtrak world. I just maintain, a lower cost option would be to use the existing Crescent to connect with an Atlanta to Savannah or Jax train. NOL to JAX is about 600 miles while ATL to JAx is 350 or 300 to SAV. As the biggest city in the South, ATL would seem to have the potential to attract the most riders for Florida.
But ATL does need a new station first. Looking at the options you mention, extending the CONO to Gulfport/Mobile seems to be the most likely to succeed. No additional equipment and probably just one additional crew - plus new stations.
Tallahassee to JAX is probably a state funded effort. But, as one who had a son in FSU, the drive on I-10 is very boring but certainly not crowded.
notelvis Member # 3071
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Yes - Atlanta has a station problem.
I fell in love with that classic little brick station in a relatively quiet suburban neighborhood when I first caught the Southern Crescent there for a northbound trip in 1977.
In the 35 years since that neighborhood has been everything but 'quiet'. Peachtree Street has been widened, I-85 and I-75 have both been widened and lap right up to the little station's foundations. There is way too little parking.....
For some time I had thought that simply enlarging the station......maybe putting a parking deck over the tracks out back..... would solve Atlanta's issues.... but no... I came to the conclusion when I was there 4 months ago that Atlanta has simply outgrown the Peachtree station which, in fairness, was never intended to be Atlanta's sole rail passenger facilty in the first place. Not so much as in ridership growth as in development around the building leaving Amtrak no room to expand.
However...... there is an abondoned Borders Bookstore across Peachtree from the train station and near enough the tracks....... perhaps this facility could provide some short-term temporary relief?
SilverStar092 Member # 2652
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Palmland: A train from Jax to ATL does nothing to help connect Florida with the midwest and west. Going from any FL point to Washington is more direct via the Star or Meteor and the ATL routing would be out of the way to both WAS and NOL plus it would misconnect with everything in NOL. I agree a Florida to Chicago train via ATL (or even via Birmingham) would be the best option for most of Florida (not for me in North FL). But with the alleged resistence of NS and CSX to run service from FL to ATL, I don't see much hope for that to even be possible. Mind you, I do not expect Amtrak to suddenly embrace restoring service from NOL to FL but it is a worthwhile option if someone would get on board with it. Our state paid a hefty sum to make improvements for this several years ago and Amtrak's unilateral decision to use to a natural disaster to dump service is what irritates me.
palmland Member # 4344
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SS92, you are certainly correct that a Crescent connecting train at Atlanta to Jax and beyond is not as good as a through train, either the Sunset or CONO on the Sunset route. And I understand your frustration at Florida putting up scarce tax dollars for a train and then have Amtrak walk away.
What I'm suggesting is just another way of getting some semblance of decent service to Florida from the mid-south and beyond. For those hearty passengers that now ride the Crescent to Florida from NOL (or ATL) via the Crescent-Washington-Silver Star circumnavigation, it would save one day. A new overnight train connecting from the Crescent in ATL would connect to the Star or Meteor the next morning in Jacksonville or Savannah.
Perhaps more importantly though, it would tap the very large populations of Birmingham and Atlanta for the one seat (via connecting cars), one night ride to the sunny south.
But I suspect neither of us will hold our breath for this to happen. Realistically I think the best we can hope for is a state sponsored day train from either Tallahassee to Jax or ATL to SAV/Jax.
As for that new Atlanta station, Georgians appear to be very patient people.
SilverStar092 Member # 2652
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There was a great turnout at today's event at the TLH station. Great support by the City and County as well plus surrounding communities. Surprising as it was a nasty rainy day in these parts. NARP's director did a fine job. Now somebody needs to convince Amtrak to get interested. As for Peachtree Station in ATL, I loved visiting it in the 1960s and 70s but it is indeed way too small for today's service and non-parking is awful. I'm surprised someone hasn't (to my knowledge) been killed by a passing freight given the tight spaces there.
sbalax Member # 2801
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I'm glad to hear that. We have some rental properties in TLH and would like to see Amtrak return to that market. It has been a long time since I "just missed" a delayed WB Sunset after Julie gave me some erroneous information.
Frank in cool and blustery SBA
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Turner, It appears you were able to attend the pow-wow.
In essence, what do they want? Restoration of the pre-existing 100% Federally funded Sunset East or something a bit more rational and less costly to operate? Local funding perchance?
Regarding your thought relating to "parking' at Peachtree Station, I know of the travails first hand when I picked up Mr. Haithcoat (I was in town for visits) last May after he returned from the Train Day soiree in Wash (also not helping the cause; "Lady Lex", or otherwise the Sat-Nav in my auto, "got lost" and got me on to that expressway by-pass those here familiar with the area likely know of). I would guess the station was built during the 1920's, and I'm certain all they had in mind was a taxicab pulling up under the portico to alight some Buckheads for The Crescent (OK, I won't say Rhett pulled the mule under the portico to alight Scarlett ).
notelvis Member # 3071
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Taxis from Buckhead to Peachtree Station back in the day?
I'll bet it was more a case of chauffered limousines for the well-heeled and trollies for the masses.
Having arrived (and will do so again Friday) at Peachtree Station on a Marta Bus, the idea of being once able to have taken a streetcar sounds great to me.
mr williams Member # 1928
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I'm only glad I managed to do the full length of the run just three months before Katrina
George Harris Member # 2077
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I wanted to get a picture of the train going across the Escambia Bay bridge, but never got to do it. It is a beautiful concrete structure with approximately 50 feet or more clear in the middle for a navigation span - almost never used. It would have made a great picture, particularly the eastbound which if anywhere near schedule would be facing about one-quarter to the north of the morning sun.
The bridge replaced a rather decrepit wood trestle with swing span. It escaped Katrina unscathed. The approach track did not. There were people a block or more back from the track where it ran along the shore of the bay that had crossties in their yard after the storm.
You had two choices to get a good picture: Stop on the parallel I-10 bridge (a really bad idea) or get a boat. Well, by helicopter would also do it, but that would not be in a reasonable budget unless you are a TV station or government agency. Oh, yeah, and doing this would require dealing with the FAA, as the approach to the Pensacola airport is fairly close.
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