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The Jan. issue of TRAINS has an interesting article on the VIA Canadian.
The article states that the new Luxury class of sleepers will be introduced during this summer.
Eight of the Chateau sleepers will be converted into six new luxury bedrooms. The new bedrooms will have pull-down double beds, bathrooms, showers, and flat-screen TV monitors. It says attendants will sort of become concierges. A Park car, for brief periods, will be used for special lectures and wine tasting. Going to run around 3K per person. Way too steep for my budget, but betcha they will be easily sold.
I went to the VIA website to see if they have further information on the new luxury cars. Could not find anything. However, I like the new VIA website...I think it is easier to navigate compared to the old one. To see schedules/timetables click the "Plan Your Trip", at the top, and the "schedules".
But regarding the 'fresh' information Richard has reported, there are now printable schedules at the VIA website.
From such, one can easily determine that there are 'ten a day' Montreal-Toronto, three of which are via Ottawa. This certainly is a respectable level of service within a Corridor. Same can be said of 'six a day' Quebec Montreal.
But 'four a day' Toronto-Windsor, as well as threat of additional 'pruning', is starting to get 'lean'.
Waddawesay about the likes of Montreal-Senneterre (hey, I rode that one to Kapitachuan Club during 1956 - steam), Winnipeg-Churchill - and the nowhere to nowhere Sudbury-White River - the only VIA service over the CP? 'They're there' likely to fulfil a social obligation - know so first hand; no highway into KC.
Now to the tourist trade; true, tourism comprises far more of Canada's GNP than it ever does in the US - and likely because of such, those interests have a 'louder voice' in Ottawa than do their counterparts have in Wash. Canadian taxpayers can only hope that 'The Canadian' maybe makes $$$ avoidable cost (and maybe @ CA$3K for a passage it does), because headlines to the effect of 'Taxpayers Subsidize Luxotrain', could well spell its end.
ghCBNS Member # 3093
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: But regarding the 'fresh' information Richard has reported, there are now printable schedules at the VIA website.
There’s been printable schedules on VIA’s website for years
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: But 'four a day' Toronto-Windsor, as well as threat of additional 'pruning', is starting to get 'lean'.
Still seams quite respectable to me when you compare Windsor (Detroit) – Toronto to what is available on your side of the line in the very similar market of Detroit – Chicago:
VIA has 4 trains each way plus an additional 3 each way from the mid-point city of London. Most of these trains provide a First Class option (called Business Class on VIA but closer to Acela First Class than what Amtrak offers as Business Class)
Amtrak has 3 trains each way between Detroit and Chicago plus one additional train each way between Battle Creek and Chicago. You have the option of Amtrak’s Business Class but it’s not in the same category as VIA’s.
.....And Montreal-Ottawa at 7 a day each way, all with Business (First) Class is a market very similar to Chicago-Milwaukee; also with 7 a day but lacking even a snack-bar.
GBN......you say you haven’t been on VIA since the 1980s? Why rely on hear-say from others. Come on up and give it a try. Sure there’s been cut-backs to the Canadian and Ocean but VIA still has a very vibrant corridor operation. On a per capita basis (Canada population is roughly 1/10 of that of the US) VIA carried about the same percentage of Canadians as Amtrak did Americans last year.
Canada: Population 35 million - VIA carried 3.95 million passengers
USA: Population 316 million – Amtrak carrier 31.6 million passengers
I’m on Amtrak often. Family ties have me in the NEC regularly (an hour and a half YHZ-BOS or a 9 hour drive to Portland) I’ve also been on your LD trains numerous times over the years. Equipment and time keeping is usually just fine (but some of the crews could use a little charm school!)
DonNadeau Member # 61606
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" but some of the crews could use a little charm school!"
Unless the bad apples go, Amtrak should outsource to the masters of "please," "thank you," "sorry," and generally being nice--Canadians.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Good point, Don -- on my 3 or 4 trips on VIA's Canadian, I have always had very pleasant and polite train attendants, who do say "please" and "thank-you." I cannot say the same about many AMTRAK attendants I have had over the years!
David Member # 3
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: ...
The article states that the new Luxury class of sleepers will be introduced during this summer.
...
Richard
From information I have heard from VIA employees and been shown in the employee's newsmagazine, the upgraded service, to be called Prestige, is supposed to start this spring between Jasper and Vancouver. I have my doubts, given that there is nothing on the Website and no bookings are being taken.
DonNadeau Member # 61606
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Rich, thank you.
In fairness, I always place nearly all blame on the quality of the management that hires inappropriate people. That's more significant than the training they receive or that unions fight for their members regardless of the impact of some of these people on the public.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. GH from Nouvelle Ecosse, I do accept and respect your report, that on a per capita basis, VIA has the same degree of 'market penetration' as does Amtrak, and that away from the Northeast Corridor, VIA's Corridors offer same or better levels of frequency as Amtrak's.
Now I have reviewed the financial information disclosed at the VIA site, and while the Audited Financial Statements and their Accompanying Notes (technical terms capitalized) are displayed, there is no equivalent document displayed analogous to Amtrak's Monthly Performance Reports. As a result, 'John Q' cannot determine what services might be close to 'pulling their weight' and those that simply are 'The Biggest Loser' (is that excuse for a TV show even aired up your way?).
I would think the public would be interested to learn to what extent they are supporting a 'luxotrain' operation that provides little in the way of everyday transport for the citizens and for which there is both air and highway transportation available. While I previously noted such, considering that there is apparent public acceptance for a CA$3K end to end 'passage' on 'The Canadian', I'd like to think that operation pays it way - or something close thereto.
Finally, and first speaking only for myself, I think I would be a bit less harsh on VIA if there were public disclosure how it various segments - Corridors, remote services, excursion train, 'everyday' overnight train - were doing. AS a CPA (Chartered Accountant up your way), I am quite mindful as to how 'liars figure' on any kind of a 'breakout' by product line especially with regard to allocation of overhead, but still, something is better than nothing.
ghCBNS Member # 3093
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Now I have reviewed the financial information disclosed at the VIA site, and while the Audited Financial Statements and their Accompanying Notes (technical terms capitalized) are displayed, there is no equivalent document displayed analogous to Amtrak's Monthly Performance Reports. As a result, 'John Q' cannot determine what services might be close to 'pulling their weight' and those that simply are 'The Biggest Loser' (is that excuse for a TV show even aired up your way?).
Perhaps this is because of VIA’s status or lack thereof. It was created by an “Order In Council”.......a stroke of a pen by the Government in power. Even though it’s a Crown Corporation.....it can disappear just as fast by that same stroke of a pen!
(and yes I’ve seen “The Biggest Loser”.....Canadians receive most US networks...here in Nouvelle-Ecosse I can even watch your own WGN)
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: I would think the public would be interested to learn to what extent they are supporting a 'luxotrain' operation that provides little in the way of everyday transport for the citizens and for which there is both air and highway transportation available. While I previously noted such, considering that there is apparent public acceptance for a CA$3K end to end 'passage' on 'The Canadian', I'd like to think that operation pays it way - or something close thereto.
In December I was on the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver and there are deals (even year ‘round) if you watch for them. I could have had a Roomette for $800 but for $1200 I had single occupancy of a Double Bedroom in the Park Car.......four nights with all meals included from an onboard crew that was second to none!
And there were numerous Canadians actually riding to get somewhere. Perhaps they’re outnumbered by tourists in the summer and fall but they were easy to spot this time of the year......the oil workers heading back to Alberta. The couple I had dinner with the last evening.......they were from Kamloops and had made a round-trip to Edmonton instead of the treacherous winter drive along the Yellowhead Highway.
Also the couple that were delivered to trainside on a snowmobile at just a milepost in northern Ontario and the passengers on/off at Foleyet, Gogama, Sioux Lookout, or the small First Nation communities.
Cottage Life Member # 97004
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I've been following this Board for some time, but have only now registered.
In response to GBN, I would like to reiterate the points made by our colleague from Nova Scotia. Despite cutbacks, the usage of Via Rail remains comparable to (if not higher than) that of Amtrak on a per capita basis.
However, VIA has to contend with a more challenging cost structure due to obligations to provide remote services in a geographically vast country where the population is highly urbanized. To understand the comparisons between the two systems one has to appreciate that the operating conditions are very different due to the difference in population densities.
In that regard I would not actually call Sudbury to White River a "nowhere to nowhere" service, as Sudbury is an important regional urban center in Northern Ontario. It is certainly a remote social service, one of several in Canada operated by Via Rail, but also by other regional operators. There is no real US equivalent, though perhaps some parts of the Empire Builder route come closest, plus of course the Alaska RR.
GBN is quite correct that the Via public reporting does not provide nearly as much information as does Amtrak's monthly reports. Nevertheless, one can gleam a fair bit from the quarterly reports on the performance of individual sectors (not specific routes). If you look carefully at the performance of the Western Transcontinental (AKA Canadian) you will see that in the peak season its subsidy per passenger mile is lower than the corridor services. But it is much higher in the off season. What is going on, I think, is simply that the internationally promoted "cruise train" generates sufficient revenues AND economies of scale to help defray the very high costs of operating this type of service on a year round basis. Bear in mind that the Canadian through northern Ontario includes a social remote social service component. To put it differently the high quality tourism-promotion strategy makes good sense.
Incidentally GBS has said repeated in several posts in different forums that tourism is more important to the Canadian economy than to the US. In fact the opposite is true. Canada has a highly seasonal tourist sector for obvious climate reasons. The share of tourism in GNP is lower in Canada than in the US, and Canada has a significant trade deficit in tourism spending due to snowbirds like myself who spend part of their winter in Florida.
That said, it makes sense to promote the attractions that we do have. Trains to the Rockies in the summer season (both Rocky Mountaineer and Via Rail) fall into that category, especially when marketed in conjunction with an Alaska cruise, as is the case in European and Australian markets.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by Cottage Life: Incidentally GBN has said repeated in several posts in different forums that tourism is more important to the Canadian economy than to the US. In fact the opposite is true. Canada has a highly seasonal tourist sector for obvious climate reasons. The share of tourism in GNP is lower in Canada than in the US, and Canada has a significant trade deficit in tourism spending due to snowbirds like myself who spend part of their winter in Florida.
I have to admit I am surprised to learn of such. But then I guess in view of that I 'go down below', i.e. Florida, most every year, I have driven along the East Coast route A1A and seen enough inexpensive motels with Canadian flags outside and 'Bienvenue' on a sign board. I have also seen enough autos with provincial tags (can't say I've seen the likes of Meteors, Acadians, and Monarchs as they predate my time of going to Florida) - and regrettably a vivid display of the absence of basic driving skills.
Cottage Life Member # 97004
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Mr. Norman, you date yourself (but then so do I)! Those Canadian-market badged car brands were phased out almost 50 years ago with the signing of the sector free trade agreement known as the Auto Pact, long since rendered obsolete by NAFTA.
You allude to one particular segment of Canadian tourism in south Florida, but I can assure you that the market is much broader and deeper. That said, if you want some Montreal-style rotisserie chicken, there are lots of choices in Fort Lauderdale.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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My first time I has occasion to see a Meteor was in Biddeford Maine during early '50's'. Any business there had a sign in the window 'Ici parlez Francais'. 'Mommy, what's Meteor?' 'It is a Canadian made car'.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: ......... But then I guess in view of that I 'go down below', i.e. Florida, most every year, I have driven along the East Coast route A1A and seen enough inexpensive motels with Canadian flags outside and 'Bienvenue' on a sign board
Early on Amtrak saw the potential of that Quebecois winter exodus to Florida and besides providing a page "en francais" in their National Timetable.....they also provided “Voitures-lits (chambrettes et chambers) Montreal-Miami”......a through sleeper with Roomettes & Bedrooms.
Note “Miami FL” scrawled on the board.....
ghCBNS Member # 3093
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: My first time I has occasion to see a Meteor was in Biddeford Maine during early '50's'. Any business there had a sign in the window 'Ici parlez Francais'.........
The Maine beaches were always an attraction for Quebecois. CN ran scheduled passenger trains and summertime “Beach Specials” on their 295 mile Grand Trunk line between Montreal and Portland.
.....and the potential for a revival is currently being looked at:
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