Under the category of "discontinued Amtrak trains that could have survived", I wonder if the Floridian (#10) could still be around if they did something about the track problems.
As for the the Amtrak train representing the worse loss, I have to think it would be the Pioneer (#3). I would be nice to have a LD train from Denver to the northwest without first having to take the Zephyr to the Bay Area, then the Starlight to the north.
Richard
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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Bad link, yukon?
yukon11 Member # 2997
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It works for me, Mike. If others can't get the link I will delete the post. Another way would be to go to www.youtube.com and punch in "The 12 Top Discontinued Amtrak Trains".
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Yukon -- thanks for the links! I watched all 3 parts. I would generally agree with their assessment. I might have added the Shenandoah/Hilltopper to their list -- and what about the North Star MSP-DUL?
palmland Member # 4344
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Enjoyed the videos, thanks. I had forgotten the Gulf breeze ran for a short time as a New Orleans to Mobile train. That is one route that I would not be surprised if it is resurrected -esp. in view of the comments made about gulf coast service in Amtrak’s 5 year plan.
The Shenandoah was a nice little train I took from Cincinnati to Washington on the route of B&O’s National Ltd. that I enjoyed every summer growing up. Shortly after it’s demise, the route was downgraded and then portions abandoned.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Palmland, the Gulf Breeze was the short lived Birmingham-Mobile Crescent connection.
The Gulf Coast Limited Mobile-New Orleans train was started for the 1984 Expo and survived for about one year more.
palmland Member # 4344
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Thanks for the correction. The video of course had the proper name. Guess I was channeling my visit to Montgomery to visit a customer and saw the Gulf Breeze. He was something of a railfan and gave me an HO model of his company’s center beam flat car (it wa a large paper company), The station was carved out of an old grain silo. Quite innovative and in a good location near the river and city park with a new minor league baseball stadium in it.
Of course I would rather have seen them go back to the restored L&N station complete with its train shed - one of the few still standing in the U.S. Perhaps with Mr. Anderson’s interest in providing better service in the fast growing south and southwest (according to their 5 year plan) we’ll see a corridor train on the route some day. The fact that AL seems supportive of gulf coast service makes it seem plausible.
yukon11 Member # 2997
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quote:Originally posted by palmland:
The Shenandoah was a nice little train I took from Cincinnati to Washington on the route of B&O’s National Ltd. that I enjoyed every summer growing up. Shortly after it’s demise, the route was downgraded and then portions abandoned. [/QB]
***************************************** I was wondering, Mr. Palmland, when you took the Shenandoah, did it have a "Strata-Dome" car?
The car had an instrument panel, in the front, which I understand contained a speedometer, clock, altimeter, and barometer. It I think it also may have had a radio just below the instruments, but not sure.
Richard
palmland Member # 4344
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Sadly, no, Richard. The Shenandoah I took was Amtrak’s sad little train, but did have a 10-6 sleeper. Most of my B&O trips were on the National Ltd -that had a great, ex NYC, observation.
The last time I rode it, shortly before it’s demise, was in a drawing room on that car. B&O’s Shenandoah was on the Chicago route. I did make one daytime trip on the Metropolitan Special, Cincinnati-Wash. We were in a wonderful heavyweight parlor-diner. It was like riding in a private car. The porter/steward/waiter took good care of us. Few coach passengers ventured into the car and we were the only parlor passengers.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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I only rode the Shenandoah a couple tiumes myself, and I do not recasll the train having a Stratdome on either trip.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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So long as this discussion is "morphing" into that of the Amfleet Sleepers, "Ampads", "Amsnooze", whatever, here is previous discussion of such:
Within that discussion, The Late Randy Resor reports he rode one.
Now so far as the five B&O Domes - two acquired from PS and three more from the C&O (intended for the stillborn Chessie), the Coaches (PS) were assigned to the short-lived Columbian, and then to the Capitol Limited. The C&O Sleeper Domes (Budd) were assigned to the Capitol Limited, with the third car assigned to the Shenandoah operating on alternate days. One of the C&O varietals lives on as a "PV".
I have set foot in both cars. In addition to the instruments noted by Richard, they also had floodlights to illuminate the passage over the Allegheny Mountains. I don't recall them working all that well.
palmland Member # 4344
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I had the pleasure of seeing the domes on the Capitol during many excursions to Washington in the 60's. On a camping trip along the Potomac recall seeing the Capitol on the other side of the river with dome lights shining. When in college, I had a number of photos of them on the rear of the Florida Special in Richmond in the winter of 1965/66. No doubt it was there to provide a better view of the pine trees.
And again, in the late 70's I was on the Floridian from Jax to Bowling Green. I don't recall if it was the coach dome or sleeper variety but it was nice to sit in it riding through south Georgia.
But, as nice as domes are, I still prefer sitting in the rear facing seat of an observation car (not the SSL, but the real ones that ran on the rear of feature trains). I believe this was David P. Morgan's favorite spot too, with his glass of "gin and clickety-clack".
Fast forward to 2018, Moonlight Dome is in charter service, as GBN notes, with the Cincinnati Railway Co. The next move is reasonably priced. Tempting.
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For the '67 season, the Florida Special had the L&N "Royal--" Obs assigned to such.
DPM would have "approved"; we'll at.least before he got "doused" (he and Margaret both had those "issues").
palmland Member # 4344
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Very true, GBN. I rode it Wilmington to Fort Lauderdale in '68 and had to make do that day with Tower View instead of 'Royal' obs.
Will be down that way next week and may check out the action in Orlando, but not quite the same as the parade of streamliners in those years when you could see the East Coast Champion, Silver Star, South Wind, and Florida Special in the space of 90 minutes. On one day I kept track of the consists of those 4 trains and counted 29 sleepers or sleeper-lounges.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: And again, in the late 70's I was on the Floridian from Jax to Bowling Green. I don't recall if it was the coach dome or sleeper variety but it was nice to sit in it riding through south Georgia.
Let's give credit to Amtrak for "putting best foot forward" for a "bumper to bumper" ride during November '77 with "The Floridian". The consist was perfectly matched Budd equipment (all Amtrak liveried; there were a few railroad liveried cars out there at that time) with full length letterboards (ex-SP Sunset save the Domes) - nine cars as I recall. Also: "everything worked".
It was simply "overkill" for a route that was "done for" as soon as the Interstates were complete and that didn't serve Atlanta.
Oh, and the Domes and me - maybe five minutes in one got my Pine Tree count in for the journey. But the best feature of the trip was just as Mr. Palmland notes; traveling through Southern Alabama and Georgia towns with the little kids enthralled as the train passed dutifully waving.
George Harris Member # 2077
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quote:It was simply "overkill" for a route that was "done for" as soon as the Interstates were complete and that didn't serve Atlanta.
Service through Atlanta would have been hopeless. Nashville - Atlanta was 6 hours for the Georgian when it was given rights over everything and curves were superelevated to the maximum reasonable that could be done (usually 6 inches). Given the realities of reduced superelevation to reasonable for piggyback and other high center freight (usually 4 inches) the downward spiral of track conditions on the SCL/L&N/Family Lines and no longer rights over everything, 8 hours would be about the best likely feasible schedule. Due to the heavy volume of freight any sort of consistent operation between Nashville and Atlanta would be highly unlikely. All in all, 18 hours plus Nashville to Jacksonville, versus 16 still being reasonably feasible via Birmingham, and that the via Atlanta of the Florida Fast Three was the first to go, trying to run via Atlanta just did not appear to be practical.
yukon11 Member # 2997
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:
I have set foot in both cars. In addition to the instruments noted by Richard, they also had floodlights to illuminate the passage over the Allegheny Mountains. I don't recall them working all that well. [/QB]
************************************ Mr. Norman: Back in the 90's , I once took the "Shasta Sunset Dinner Train" (now defunct) up in the Mt.. Shasta area. I may be wrong, but I think I remember floodlights on that train. The route cut a narrow swath through pine trees most of the way. I would think floodlights might help in spotting large, 4 legged critters along the track. However, if so, the train probably couldn't slow down enough to avoid a collision. I have never heard of the Empire Builder colliding with a bear or moose at night, near Glacier, but maybe it does sometimes happen. I think deer collisions are more common.
I also wonder if Amtrak trains use conventional headlights or do some employ xenon or halogen headlights?
Richard
Possibly the bright lights on the Shasta Dinner Train may have just been a combination of headlights and ditch lights, not flood lights. Looking around the web, and unless there has been some upgrade, the headlights are 200 watts and the ditch lights 350 watts. Both lights are suppose to give the train crew the ability to see 800 feet ahead. However, many think that 800 ft is not reasonable and it is much less.
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