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Gilbert B Norman
Member # 1541
 - posted
This lengthy and scholarly article just might be "too much", but it addresses the two most contested elections with which "We The People" have had to address:

https://www.justsecurity.org/82233/a-historical-perspective-on-alternate-electors-lessons-from-hayes-tiden/

The Fair Use quotation is taken from where the author addresses the relevance of Hayes/Tilden to the ongoing Biden/Trump dispute:
  • What distinguishes the Hayes-Tilden dispute from the “Big Lie” claim of a stolen election in 2020 is that there were plausible arguments to Tilden’s position that he was the candidate that deserved to be recognized the Electoral College winner by the joint session of Congress, whereas there never was any plausibility whatsoever to arguments made on behalf of Trump.
I certainly intend to give this material "a deeper dive", but at this time, all I can proffer is a "We report, you decide".
 
irishchieftain
Member # 1473
 - posted
Don’t see a parallel, with all due respect.

In 2020, it has been alleged that 93 percent of registered voters voted, bucking the previous average for over a century of about 45 percent and being a statistical impossibility. That is the only time in US history such a thing occurred, and lends a lot of credence to the notion of a stolen election not actually being a “big lie”. Ignoring sworn affidavits to the effect of malfeasance occurring in vote counting does not engender voter confidence in the system either.
 
Gilbert B Norman
Member # 1541
 - posted
Actually, I did not, as I haven't reviewed the material sufficiently to draw any parallels, other than the bitterly contested results. So, Mr. Helfner, is it your contention that for every legitimate ballot cast, there was one stuffed to provide the "close but decisive" 2020 result.

Does that mean someone actually won by a landslide?

Wouldn't it be nice if this election could have ended as peacefully as did the most recent contested election? "Gorebushoff" 2K. In that case when after all the "dimpled and hanging chad" because Granny didn't (or couldn't) push the stylus hard enough, were hand counted there was a 674 vote count in Florida favoring Bush. However, after Gore determined what uncounted votes remained were largely those of overseas military, which traditionally favored Republican candidates, and a US Supreme Count ruling that the counting will stop, Gore conceded and had the painful duty to report on January 6, 2001 that he lost.
 
George Harris
Member # 2077
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:
Wouldn't it be nice if this election could have ended as peacefully as did the most recent contested election? "Gorebushoff" 2K. In that case when after all the "dimpled and hanging chad" because Granny didn't (or couldn't) push the stylus hard enough, were hand counted there was a 674 vote count in Florida favoring Bush. However, after Gore determined what uncounted votes remained were largely those of overseas military, which traditionally favored Republican candidates, and a US Supreme Count ruling that the counting will stop, Gore conceded and had the painful duty to report on January 6, 2001 that he lost.

It was Gore that claimed he would have won except that many of the people that would have voted for him were unable to figure out how to punch the right holes in the card. Then after he realized that his agitating would result in counting of the military votes previously uncounted would work against him, he shut up.

Can you imagine? I would be embarrassed to say, I would have won, except that many of the people that would have voted for me were too stupid to figure out how to do it. Gore losing was definitely no loss to the country. I will say that one of the main things I had against Gore is that being originally from Tennessee and keeping up with Tennessee politics, I knew what a sleaze Daddy Gore was. Note also that Gore much like Kerry talked a good show about environmentalism, but burned fuel like there was no tomorrow. Come to think of it, how many years has it been since the world would have ended according to Gore?
 
irishchieftain
Member # 1473
 - posted
Since when is 2020 a “contested election” when the valid contesting of it was not permitted, might I ask?

2016 was a “contested election” by somewhat of the same measure, but I was talking about statistical anomalies in 2020; these did not exist in either 2016 or 2000 for that matter, any more than vote by mail (which even left-wing source after left-wing source openly admitted to be vulnerable to fraud).
 
Gilbert B Norman
Member # 1541
 - posted
Well, this now 81yo mind sat down at his Desktop and its 24" wide screen (as distinct from his phone), and can only conclude that on the strength of Florida, Tilden was "robbed", as chicanery in the vote count was discovered only after the Electors had met and the results submitted to the Joint Session:
  • Tilden’s position was strongest in Florida. In fact, an honest count of ballots cast would have shown Tilden the state’s winner. His party’s slate of electors in Florida also met on the congressionally designated day for all electors in every state to cast their Electoral College votes. But unlike in South Carolina, as we shall focus on momentarily, Tilden’s Florida electors were backed by an official of the state’s government: Florida’s Attorney General, a Democrat, who purported to certify Tilden the winner of the state. On the same day, however, Republican electors in Florida voted for Hayes, backed by a certification from the state’s canvassing board that Hayes had won the state (as a consequence of the board’s dishonest counting of the ballots). Later, Florida’s judiciary and legislature would act to undo the canvassing board’s certification in favor of Hayes, and additional official documentation of Tilden’s popular vote victory in the state would be sent to Congress to supplement the Attorney General’s initial declaration of this result.
Trump had no basis in any of the battleground states for a similar claim, as recounts had been conducted in all sufficiently prior to the Jan 6 Joint Session, and all were found to be accurate "in material respects".
 
George Harris
Member # 2077
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by irishchieftain:
In 2020, it has been alleged that 93 percent of registered voters voted, bucking the previous average for over a century of about 45 percent and being a statistical impossibility. That is the only time in US history such a thing occurred, and lends a lot of credence to the notion of a stolen election not actually being a “big lie”. Ignoring sworn affidavits to the effect of malfeasance occurring in vote counting does not engender voter confidence in the system either.

I am likewise highly skeptical of the 93%, particularly since it seems that some of these super high percentages were in urban areas that usually had relatively low turnouts. However, the reality is that turnout definitely was much higher than the usual. I worked one of our local precincts and the turnout was somewhere around 85% to 87% when absentee ballots were counted. And, this was a precinct in North Mississippi being in a state relatively sure to go Republican. Going much higher that about this range I would consider near impossible, as there are always registered voters who don't show up or can't. My wife for one example is still on the list of registered voters but is sufficiently advanced in Alzheimer's that she is incapable of voting. By comparison, in the recent primary with only our US representative at issue, the turnout summed up both sides was more in the order of 15%.

(One of the local jokes is "The last time before 2020 my father voted Democrat for president was Truman, but by the time he voted for Biden he had been in the ground for 25 years.)
 
George Harris
Member # 2077
 - posted
Back to Hayes / Tilden: This was 1876 during which the ex-Confederate States were still under the thumb of "Reconstruction" governed by a combination of Carpetbaggers and Scalawags. Anyone that had served in the Confederate military or government was not allowed to vote. That way that these states were going to go Republican was virtually a given. It was the long lasting sour taste from this period that led to the "solid south" for many years until it became overwhelmingly obvious that the national level Democratic Party had no consideration for any of our concerns because they could count on our vote regardless. All serious election contests took place in the primaries. (It appears that the same is being played out with the Latino voters now.)
 



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