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I guess in common with the rest of the world, I fear this will end badly. Likely the vessel will be recovered, but absent the happy ending portrayed in the movie Marooned.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Unfortunately, I agree. If anything, deep sea vehicles need more in the way of safety backups than space vehicles, and based on what has been said in the media, they were weak in this area.
irishchieftain Member # 1473
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I certainly don’t want this to end in tragedy. Even the most foolhardy ought to be given a second chance to learn from the worst of mistakes.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mathematically as this written, "it's now all over".
The authorities, insurers, and "legal beagles" will want the recovery mission to move forth. Hopefully, they will find that the vessel imploded as that will mean the debris will be in one concentrated location, and that for the occupants it was simply "lights out".
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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This article, appearing yesterday in The Times is horrifying, to say the least.
Fair Use:
In the documents, Mr. Lochridge reported learning that the viewport that lets passengers see outside the craft was only certified to work in depths of up to 1,300 meters.
That is far less than would be necessary for trips to the Titanic, which is nearly 4,000 meters below the ocean’s surface
The occupants are all now dead - their oxygen is gone. Hopefully the vessel disintegrated, which means no one suffered as, again, "it was lights out".
Obviously, the recovery mission will move forth; I'll place my bets the vessel, or whats left of it will be found. There are simply too many deep pocketed parties in interest for any other outcome.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Both The Times and Journal are reporting "a debris field" not previously noted has been found in the vicinity of the Titanic.
If these debris are found to be those of the SV Titan (addendum: now confirmed), then if five people were to die from this "mission", at least it was a "lights out" death.
There will be no curtailing of these and similar high risk adventures (climbing Mt. Everest); hopefully more stringent regulation will result, and that promoters of such will not sell them as "it's just like getting on a commercial flight".
irishchieftain Member # 1473
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So the plan was to have a vessel that could only withstand 130 atmospheres descend to a depth where the water pressure is 400 atmospheres? That is insanity.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Albeit a filmaker by profession, James Cameron is nevertheless experienced with deep sea dives. As such, this Times article can be considered an interview with an expert:
Fair Use:
“We’ve never had an accident like this,” James Cameron, the Oscar-winning director of “Titanic,” said on Thursday.
Mr. Cameron, an expert in submersibles, has dived dozens of times to the ship’s deteriorating hulk and once plunged in a tiny craft of his own design to the bottom of the planet’s deepest recess.
In an interview, Mr. Cameron called the presumed loss of five lives aboard the Titan submersible from the company OceanGate like nothing anyone involved in private ocean exploration had ever seen.
“There’ve never been fatalities at this kind of depth and certainly no implosions,” he said.
An implosion in the deep sea happens when the crushing pressures of the abyss cause a hollow object to collapse violently inward. If the object is big enough to hold five people, Mr. Cameron said in an interview, “it’s going to be an extremely violent event — like 10 cases of dynamite going off.”
Offhand, I would say that Mr. Cameron is being "meek and gentle with these butchers" when referring to this incident as an "accident". "Negligence" is a more appropriate term.
But be it assured, this matter will not be about "to go away and be forgotten". The deep pocketed Estates have "Green to burn" - and the "Beagles" are lining up to "assist" them in doing so.
George Harris Member # 2077
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For a little perspective, the forces involved are many times those experienced in space. In space you are looking at 1 atmosphere of pressure, about 14.7 psi, and that is from the inside, so the skin of the vessel is in tension. They are saying 400 atmospheres here, which would be 5,900 psi, and that from the outside, so the skin of the vessel is in compression, which means you also have to consider buckling which is not necessary to consider in a tension element. From my couple experiences in pipeline work, testing was to 50% above operating pressure (the CFR only requires 25% above), so this thing should have been designed for failure at or above about 8,800 psi. What did they really do? This is obviously a life safety issue, so you don't cut corners.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Investigative reporting from the organization I hold as "the best in the business":
quote:The last time Christine Dawood saw her husband, Shahzada, and their son, Suleman, they were specks on the North Atlantic, bobbing on a floating platform about 400 miles from land. It was Father’s Day, June 18, and she watched from the support ship as they climbed into a 22-foot submersible craft called Titan.
Divers closed them inside by tightening a ring of bolts as the craft rolled on the waves about 13,000 feet above the 111-year-old wreckage of the Titanic.
Nope, not really. I get a "fools rush in where angels fear to tread" feeling about this whole thing. For this, and for that matter, some of Musk's space stuff, I think they have lost the understanding that "what can go wrong will go wrong" and the need to design and build accordingly.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Harris, even if the only personal contact I've ever had with any "Musk stuff" is having rented a Tesla Model Y last November (fine; didn't have to worry about anything like where to charge it up), I thought Space X was considered a reliable contractor for both NASA and the private sector..
Now Sir Richard?????? (that could be another story)
George Harris Member # 2077
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: I thought Space X was considered a reliable contractor for both NASA and the private sector.
My thoughts on Space X was due to the major damage to the ground facilities upon launch of the rocket. I cannot imagine the ground facilities being designed and built without being able to resist the force of the blast.
I'm sure it need not be said; I do not, never had, and never will have anything to do with Twitter, and the Model Y did its job, i.e. get me from HPN to my Sister's birthday at her Club in Greenwich, to her house for an "after party", to Hyatt, and back to HPN. Incidentally, it was the cheapest rental Hertz had at HPN ($79da; a gas powered Nissan Sentra was $109). It didn't have a radio, but an audio system to which I guess you can hook up your phone to using Bluetooth, and darned if I knew how to set the mirrors (Hertz set them for me). Otherwise, fun for 75 miles, as it "sure moved out".
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