posted
When I went to the California State Railroad Musium(CSRM) in Sacramento I seen one of Amtrak's F40s coupled to one of Southern Pacific's locomotives I thought about how it seemed like they were trying to rush the F40s into retirement. Only recently had Amtrak stopped using them on the San Diago route but that was awhile ago before I became a member of Rail Forum so this story is kinda old. I'm guessing Amtrak donated it to The CSRM because it looked beat up and a little rust damaged so it didnt look like anything that Amtrak would want to hang on to.------Reply if you want me to e-mail you a photo of it.
------------------ JONATHON D. ORTIZ
Posts: 989 | From: DIAMOND BAR CA. U.S. | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I said "rushed into retirement" I didnt mean it as in they werent in service long enough, but as in they werent being slowly put into retirement it seemed like as soon as Amtrak got enough genesis and F59PHIs they wre though with the F40s completly all of asudden.
------------------ JONATHON D. ORTIZ
Posts: 989 | From: DIAMOND BAR CA. U.S. | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Were all of the F40s received in 1976, or was just the first one received in 1976? Surely, despite their age, a good number of F40s must have been retired serviceable. Where are they stored?
Did the F40 have a major breakdown that could be described as most likely to occur? In other words, was the F40 model apt to fail in the same way at some point in time? You know, like heart disease is a number one killer among Americans, and Japanese cars generally rust and have timing chain failures after 100,000 miles? What major repair work is an F40 most likely to need after so many years?
Maybe the likelihood of them failing over the road hastened the decision to pull them out of service before they actually did en masse.
On a side note, and just for the sake of comparison, how long were GG1s in service?
Dave
[This message has been edited by dnsommer (edited 11-23-2003).]
Posts: 284 | From: Ithaca, NY USA | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well I don't know about a defectivness that could occure in the F40ph but I do know that it's counter part the SDP40F(the passenger version)was retired due to being the cause of most derailments on frieght rails in its erra. And Amtrak didnt get rid of all there F40s some are in storage(all the nice ones!) some were sold to Alaska's railways some were sold to I think the name was rail world a company that leases locomotives to comuter companys and some were kept for back up power for the Coast Starlight and some converted to cabbage cars(cab control/baggage). Out of all the Amtrak F40s there were 213 of them.
------------------ JONATHON D. ORTIZ
Posts: 989 | From: DIAMOND BAR CA. U.S. | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by espeefoamer: Rushed into retirement?They were introduced In 1976 and have been in service for over 20 years.20 years?Where has all the time gone?
Twenty years isn't that old for a locomotive. There are still many working locomotives that are 30-40 or more years old. Canadian National had some electric locomotives built in 1914-15 that were still in daily use 80 years later.
Amtrak's F40's, properly maintained, could have easily lasted another decade or so.
posted
Still in storage? I beg to differ. The majority of the F40 fleet has been scrapped. This was due to many factors, some of which include too many Genesis locomotives, age, high mileage, age, waning reliability, not having any heavy overhauls done since 1995 or so, high fuel consumption, and age. Most were still serviceable, yes, but failures were becoming more common and so they went. Also it is far more economical to keep spare parts for only one type of diesel on hand. I do not believe any F40s are in storage any more as of this spring, either they were sold or pending or waiting to be scrapped. This was the nasty side of "operational self-sufficiency." In order to do that, Amtrak cut maintenance and literally killed its own F40s. It's a good thing most of the cars are still rolling, although recent experience tells me they are a bit fragile too.
------------------ F40PH #757099-8 March 29, 1976-August 17, 2001 Best of the best, requisecat in pacis
P42DC #53063 Now only around 2.4 million miles to go
posted
I don't follow the locomotive issues very closely, but I believe the first Genesis locomotives were introduced a decade ago and F40s were running concurrently until a couple years ago. It was quite common to see both locomotive types on a train until fairly recently, as these shots taken in 2001 show. Looks more like a phase-out that a rush to retirement.
Personally, I think the brick-like shape of the F40s are too much like a freight locomotive. Moreover, mismatched locomotives like these trains look ungainly to me. A train of matching Genesis units looks like part a modern transportation system. I think this is important because the trains themselves are Amtrak's best advertisement. They need to look good.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
posted
The F-40, while maybe not too aesthetically pleasing, was a very proven performer. the only way they could have made it better is to make the HEP work off of notch 4 instead of notch 8 to cut down on noise. Maybe at first they didn't have the technology, but they do now.
Posts: 49 | From: Drexel Hill, PA 19026 USA | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
In order to post photos in your replies, read the FAQ section. It takes some minor code. Are you implying the neat, angular nose of 207 or 280 or any of the rest looks worse than the bashed-up, misaligned ditch lights with reflective striping falling off 713? I'm not kidding, the Genesissies dent too easily above the plow. Also keep in mind the F40 defined the passenger locomotive in all of North America for a quarter of a century- look on Amtrak's web page and in the timetable and you'll still see them in photos and in graphics. Back when all the stripes actually matched and lined up, they fit right in. Mr. Toy, please send your 231 pic to CF for the 231 page.
------------------ F40PH #757099-8 March 29, 1976-August 17, 2001 Best of the best, requisecat in pacis
P42DC #53063 Now only around 2.4 million miles to go
posted
The only Amtrak locomotives that were "rushed into retirement" were the SDP40F and the P30CH. (Not sure about the F69PH series though...and the P32-8s are still around in some capacity)
[This message has been edited by irishchieftain (edited 11-25-2003).]
posted
Locomotives do not have odometers, they have hour meters.
BTW, those hour meters matter for components, not for the locomotive as an entity. Engines can be swapped in and out. Ditto traction motors and generator sets. Wear to wheelsets is measured to a guage.
Really, only the frame itself rides the entire life of the locomotive.
BTW, Union Pacific experience, well into the second generation of Diesels, was 16-18 years introduction to retirement.
John
------------------ The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations
posted
Boston's MBTA has a version of the F40 called theF40PH-2C,that is 3 ft.longer,and has a seperate engine to power the HEP.This way the main engine doesn't have to run at run8 all the time.Maybe this is what Amtrak should have used.
posted
NJ Transit have also converted their F40PH-2s to F40PH-2CATs with the pony HEP motor from Caterpillar. As far as "screamers" go, the first common-use ones were Metra's F40C six-axle locos.
What with higher-horsepower prime-movers now available, HEP can be operated off the prime mover at far lower revs.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
