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I just finished the new book, "Conquering Gotham: A Gilded Age Epic, the Construction of Penn Station and its Tunnels," by Jill Jones, Viking, 2007.
It is a great addition to railroad history. About 2/3 of the book relates to bringing trains to New York City; proposals, etc., and the construction of the tunnels and station.
Penn Station itself is the last 1/3 of the book. I found it interesting that maintenance of the great station was ignored even in the 1930s and interior surfaces were literally "black" with dirt.
It is not a "picture book" of Penn Station, but there are about 50 photos and drawings. The famous 1966 photo of Weinman's female statues as they were dumped as debris in the Meadowlands with the Doric columns ends the book. Unfortunately, we all know the last chapter.
It retails for $ 27.95 and was available from my library system, a good choice of the selector, namely me.
Posts: 76 | From: Steubenville, OH | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Read a synopsis of this book. In Diehl's book she discusses the building of the tunnels and the station. Mr Hall, does Jones book discuss and show blueprints of the LIRR area of the Station? There seems to be scant documents and or pictures of this area. In all the books about Penn Station they are always concentrating on the Long Distance Trains. I don't think planners realized how busy a commuter train station Penn was until they tore it down and squeezed everyone through narrow corridors. Any word on the Moynihan Station? I Heard there is the umpteenth plans for the West Side Rail yards. Offices, the New, New Madison Sq Garden? It is amazing that that hole in the ground has been there for over a century. The failure real estate development west of Penn Station did not allow the Pennsy to benifit financially as the NY Central did with Grand Central Terminal.
Has anyone ever been amazed that the NY Rail and Auto Tunnels have been operating for years while it took Boston's Big Dig started leaking within 6 months of opening.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tanner929: Has anyone ever been amazed that the NY Rail and Auto Tunnels have been operating for years while it took Boston's Big Dig started leaking within 6 months of opening.
It wasn't the leaking. It was the falling ceiling panels that was the disaster in the big dig. Most if not all tunnels leak some. I think that you will find that this applies to the various tunnels into Manhattan. Leakage is kept under control and the tunnels have systems built in to take care of it. About the only things I know that demand - and get - absolutely zero leakage are petroleum products and natural gas pipelines.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I can't say anything about the NY tunnels, but some tunnels are specifically *designed* to leak - it eases the pressure on the crown of the tunnel, and under-tunnel conduits and pumping remove the excess water.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I am of the suspicion that usually tunnels underwater, at least, are supposed to be watertight. Mountain tunnels are normally deisgned to be drained, that is to collect the water that runs into them into an under the track drainage system and haul it away, by gravity.
There are exceptions to this. First, if you design a tunnel to drain the mountain, you will dry up the wells of those at higher elevations. For this reason, there are quite a few tunnels that are designed to watertight, but in actuality they usually settle for close. Second, in some cases the water flow can be huge. These they usually attempt to block off. Third, if you have areas of gas pockets, you try to make to tunnel tight. If it is short usually you do not get enough of a concentration to matter, but then on short tunnels you usually don't hit methane pockets, either.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Well ok all you engineers, all tunnels "leak", but when your driving through that tunnel in Boston and suddendly you think your going through the car wash, mmm perhaps its called a controlled flood.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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When it gets beyond drips and trickles, I would regard it as an uncontrolled flood that needs some work to get it under control.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Responding to the question about LIRR in this book; there are no drawings or photos of the LIRR section of Penn Station. There is, however, a great deal of text relating to the LIRR and its design within the station. Several pages relate to their opening of the LIRR and irritation by commuters that their costs had increased to cover the cost of additional and new tunnels to serve the LIRR. The book discusses the impact of being able to live away from Manhattan and commute via the LIRR.
There is only a brief paragraph about the future of Penn Station with Madison Square Garden "off its back."
Posts: 76 | From: Steubenville, OH | Registered: Oct 2004
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