Wouldn't it be great if Amtrak (assuming the were able to procure a budget for new cars) bought new trainsets one at a time, starting with the premier or relaunched trains (start with the Empire Builder and Coast Starlight probably, since they have/are being relaunched). The older Superliner trainsets could then be rotated out to the other LD trains. The even older Superliners from those LD trains could either be retired, refurbished or used to increase capacity.
Although new cars wouldn't start arriving for four or five years, it seems like even if Amtrak was able to purchase enough trainsets for one LD route a year, it wouldn't be a huge-huge expense. I believe I heard before that new Superliners would cost approximately $4,000,00 a car, although I may (probably) am mistaken...?
Just an idea. Any thoughts or comments?
- Jarrod
Posts: 82 | From: San Lorenzo, CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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Good thought and I don't think anyone will debate that there is most definately a need. However at Amtrak's current funding levels, they're lucky they're able to maintain the cars they have. There is also the problem Superliners collecting dust in Beech Grove pending repairs or refurbishing. The State of California just purchased a couple of these mothballed cars to place on the Corridor trains. It seems Amtrak can't even afford to repair what they have. The problem is economics. Its cheaper in the SHORT TERM to duct tape up rickety old, 20 yr old equipment. Perhaps the funding situation will brighten after the 2008 general election.
Can anyone actually remember the LAST time Amtrak invested in new rolling stock that WAS NOT acela equipment?
Posts: 387 | From: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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I must say, the refurbished Superliners currently running on the Northern California fleet are nice. I heard just yesterday that 5 more will be arriving in July.
Posts: 82 | From: San Lorenzo, CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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Does anyone know for sure how much a new Superliner trainset would cost? I wonder if they would be completely re-designed with a new look?
Posts: 82 | From: San Lorenzo, CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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I don't believe so. The deal with the California DOT is for the northern California fleet (mainly for use on the Capital Corridor). But who knows! Once the Capital Corridor receives their new cars, maybe they will be repainted and transferred down to SoCal.
Posts: 82 | From: San Lorenzo, CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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Just FYI...most equipment used on the Capitol also sees service on the San Joaquins. I have observed several train sets that especially run on the Capitol and then turn into SB San Joaquins out of SAC. I know for instance SB 704 (SAC to BFD) arrives into SAC in Capitol Route Service.
I have also noticed on occasion CAL CARS being dead headed from OKJ to LAX and the other way around on the CS. I STILL occasionally see an original CAL CAR on the Surfliner, however rare. I HAVE seen on ONE instance a SURFLINER car in the bay area, but it wasn't in revenue service. It was just sitting solo in Oakland. Anyone know why they would ship a Sufliner car to OKJ if not for revenue service? Maintenance reasons perhaps???
-------------------- Patrick Posts: 387 | From: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Technically, why could the two fleets NOT be used in both regions? Both are owned by CAL DOT. The only reason I can think of is that there are no Business Class cars of the old CAL CAR models.
-------------------- Patrick Posts: 387 | From: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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I would imagine it would be for maintenance. On several occasions I have seen the Pacific Surfliner locos pulling the Coast Starlight up to Oakland. I'm assuming for maintenance. On two occasions I have seen the Talgo engines doing the same thing, but they headed down to LAX.
Posts: 82 | From: San Lorenzo, CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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Personally, I hope the state purchase of Superliners is NOT a trend. WE need AMTRAK to remodel and fix EVERY SINGLE ONE of these cars collecting dust in Beech Grove in LD train service. To me, the states aquisition of these cars reflects a lack of 'giving a cr@p' about its equipment by Amtrak. Please...GET THOSE %*#$(*#($%**#$( SUPERLINER CARS FIXED!! We need them in LD train service: not sold to the highest bidder!!
-------------------- Patrick Posts: 387 | From: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: Technically, why could the two fleets NOT be used in both regions? Both are owned by CAL DOT. The only reason I can think of is that there are no Business Class cars of the old CAL CAR models.
True. When the Capital Corridor has reported that their new California Cars will be business class! Looking forward to that! Lets hope those Prop 1B funds come through this year!
Posts: 82 | From: San Lorenzo, CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: Personally, I hope the state purchase of Superliners is NOT a trend. WE need AMTRAK to remodel and fix EVERY SINGLE ONE of these cars collecting dust in Beech Grove in LD train service. To me, the states aquisition of these cars reflects a lack of 'giving a cr@p' about its equipment by Amtrak. Please...GET THOSE %*#$(*#($%**#$( SUPERLINER CARS FIXED!!!!!!
Even though Beach Grove is doing a fine job with the California Superliners and I think it is a great way to temporarily increase capacity, I don't like how they are taking away cars that could be used on the LD trains.
One thing to remember is that these Superliners are being leased by the state, not bought, so theoretically after the lease runs out, Amtrak could simply repaint the cars and put them back into use on the LDs. This would actually save Amtrak money right? The State of California paid for the refurbishment.
Posts: 82 | From: San Lorenzo, CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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As a side note, when traveling on the Capital Corridor, not many people sit in either the refurbished cars or the Superliners currently being used as Cafe Cars. Of course, if the train is full, I'm sure they are crowded, but mid-day, they are virtually empty.
I actually see alot of frustration because people don't like how they can't de-train from these cars and the Cafes are literally dumps compared to the upper-level Cafes.
Posts: 82 | From: San Lorenzo, CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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Jarrod is correct, but this discussion has tended to focus on California. You guys out there don't know how good you've got it, methinks. The last time anyone bought new equipment for the general Amtrak pool was the Superliner II order, completed sometime around 1997. Placing new equipment into service in trainsets is what happened in 1981 when the Superliner Is started showing up. This was a steam heat versus HEP change. However, given Amtrak's desperation, any new equipment now would probably be pressed into service immediately. This recent fanaticism with "just in time delivery" is to blame. What makes you think someone named Bombardier could produce one crew car, three coaches, a diner, a sightseer lounge, and a pair of sleepers at one time? The Superliner Is were delayed into 1983 by strikes at Pullman-Standard. Please keep in mind that with the last round of equipment orders, the eastern trains got the shaft. Superliners came in five forms, the fifth of which was even a specialized set of cars (full lounges and all-deluxe sleepers for the Auto Train). New equipment for the eastern routes came in one form. Eastern trains got sleepers only, and not enough of them. No new diners, which are still desperately needed. No new crew cars, as I've pointed out elsewhere, the current situation of using revenue space in sleepers for crew space is a tremendous waste of money. I agree that it's pathetic that Amtrak's operating budget keeps getting trimmed or redirected (into making up stupid diner-lounge and diner lite cars) instead of being able to maintain their own. Be happy you actually got your Parlour cars back. Lakeshore customers are paying quite a bit of money to eat in a teensy lounge car with a corridor-service lounge behind it. The trainsets have been trimmed to three coaches (58 passengers each when stuffed full) so forget about sleeping comfortably. Little details like the heat and the exterior doors don't work. So in all honesty, I don't think you folks need any more Superliners right now. You should have plenty of surplus equipment anyway! The City of New Orleans has been trimmed in length, as has the Texas Eagle, you're operating half the Sunset Limited equipment of two years ago, the Desert Wind and Pioneer are not running compared to when this equipment was delivered in 1997, and the Cardinal operates with single-level equipment triweekly. Where is all this stuff going??? This is why when the winter freeze-ups or other inverted-meltdowns happen, the Lakeshore runs with whatever *Superliners* are around. At least you've got the equipment.
Your original idea about procuring new equipment in fixed trainsets is not how they are purchased, but it is how the new equipment is released. This "relaunching" novelty is nice where it happens (ahem, western trains, while our sleepers still leak and the lights don't work and the toilets are being ripped out) but also includes an admission that service had degraded below their own expectations, requiring a fresh start.
Posts: 391 | From: Schenectady | Registered: Jan 2002
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I believe the Superliners now in posession of Amtrak California are leased from Amtrak, not purchased. If I remember correctly the idea was for the state to repair the coaches (which otherwise would be awaiting funds to repair them) and lease them until the state could buy new California cars in five years or so. After that the coaches revert to Amtrak.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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I'm of the mind that it was a mistake for Amtrak to move away from single-level equipment in the first place; and in their beginning, most of their fleet was indeed single-level. An entity like Amtrak needs a fleet of railcars that can go to any destination on its system. Superliners are too tall for the northeast (at 16' 2") and cannot load/unload at high platforms.
Posts: 566 | Registered: Mar 2002
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If it were up to me, bi-level equipment would be used almost everywhere that clearances permit, essentially everywhere except eastern LD and NEC (and possibly routes where Talgo equipment might be advantageous). The bi-level cars are more comfortable and require fewer station stops due to shorter train length. Isn't the operating cost per passenger also lower?
Posts: 41 | From: San Diego, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Jarrod: I must say, the refurbished Superliners currently running on the Northern California fleet are nice. I heard just yesterday that 5 more will be arriving in July.
Any idea where these 5 might be coming from?
As I look at my list of out of service coaches, I see the following that are available (note I haven't updated the list in a few months so it might be out of date):
Potential Superliner I Snack Coach: 35005, 35008, 35011
Potential Superliner I Coach Baggage: 31006, 31026, 31034
Potential Superliner I Coach Smoking: 31537, 31592
Some of these have very severe damage and would likely not be suitable, but you never know.
-------------------- Matt Visit gallery for photos of our train layouts Posts: 579 | From: San Bernardino Subdivison | Registered: Dec 2001
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