posted
Not much "action" in the International Rail board lately, so I will post about my recent (returned 11/12/07) trip to the PRC. It was my sixth time in the country, and more challenging than most. I'll just give a brief overview here of the RR part of the trip...
By air (Asiana) from LAX to ICN (Incheon, Korea) then on to Qingdao, PRC in Shandong Province. This part was a 90 minute "hop" over the Yellow Sea, after the 13 hour run from LA.
Rail (hard sleeper) from Qingdao to Zhengzhou (Henan Province.) The smoke and crowds got to me a bit on this overnighter; I woke up after a fitful sleep, sweating and nauseous. Probably frrom the smoke, which happens even though it is supposed to be "not allowed." (Also our sleeper was still heated by buckets of hot coals, attended to by the friendly TA.) After a couple days layover seeing sights, rail (soft coach) to Tianshui, then an upgrade to hard sleeper to Xi'an (Shaanxi Province.) This leg was great as the crew let us into an empty hard sleeper and we had that car all to ourselves for this leg (w/Cynthia, my Mandarin-speaking travel partner.) The plan was to go to Kashgar in Xinjiang, but that train had been seasonally-stopped a week earlier. Maybe next time.
During the night, we passed the big city of Lanzhou, which not so long ago had the dubious honor of being deemed the "world's most polluted city." They did not let me down, as I could see many residents wearing respirator masks on the street. I think it's coal dust, climate and other industrial waste floating in the air that makes Lanzhou's air so bad...
So on through the night and then a layover in Xi'an, with stops to see the Terra Cotta Warriors and some other local color, such as a replica tomb of Qin Shi Huang, the great Emperor who got unification started a "few" years ago. The City Wall is pretty darn impressive in Xi'an; the Chinese have a long history of "keeping the foreigners out." They also built that other famous "big wall" to that end as well.
Back on the train (hard coach) to Gansu Province and our final destination of Dunhuang, a rough desert outpost at the midpoint of the old Silk Road, where are located some famous Buddhist caves, statuary, frescoes and other antiquities. Speaking of the Great Wall, the railroad parallels the GW here, which is fun to see as you tick off the Chinese miles. It is the old wild, unimproved "Han" Wall from about the time of Jesus, not the manicured example near Beijing where all the tourists go. More of an ancient, rammed earth fortification with square watchtowers along the way...by the way, in hard coach, you can open windows and put your arm out into the air.
If you use the following parameters, I think China has the greatest passenger RR system in the world, (comparatively speaking to other world countries.)
1) Size of country related to the density and frequency of passenger service. For example, one evening while sitting for a full hour at some lonely desert outpost in the Gobi, 20 passenger trains went by on the main, each 18 cars long and looked full. Also about 5 freights rolled by. Chinese freight trains are fairly short and there are no American-sized double stacks. Mainlines are electrified mostly, except on some single track branch lines which use diesel-electric. Steam is gone, (I believe) with the possible exception of some small switch/yard jobs in the backcountry.
2) Smoothness of track and amazing engineering through mountain districts. Mainline track "frogs" are almost noiseless and you can balance a coin on its side on many stretches of rail. Near Xi'an is a long stretch of mountain running; a series of bridge-into-tunnel-onto-bridge-into-tunnel elements, including a huge number of river/lake crossings, about 70 miles long and done at a sharp speed which felt like 60-70 MPH.
3) Very few American-style grade crossings. I saw less than 12. You have grade separations, some RR-under, but mostly RR-over the car road. There was quite a bit of slack in the trains I rode, so one engineer was really "bunching us up" as we went downgrade. It feels like there are no dynamic brakes in these electric locomotives, just air brakes. I may be dead wrong about this; it's just that I could hear none of that telltale "whining" you will hear when American locos are in dynamic coming downgrade.
4) However, the standard rolling stock seems quite good, close to Amtrak standards or beyond. Classes of passenger trains range from bullet type speeders that look like about 125 MPH rated, all the way down to old American style "mixed trains" which have a single passenger car in the middle of a string of boxcars. Oh, almost forgot about the Shanghai Maglev...
5) Fares are reasonable by Chinese standards and really inexpensive for visitors from Western countries. It helps mightily if you can speak some Mandarin or have someone with you who does! The top accomodation is called soft sleeper or "ruan wo" in Chinese. Here you have a closing room door, but you will still have strangers in your room if your party is less than 4 people.
6) If the Chinese need a new line somewhere, they just say "build it." It appears there are no "funding problems" of any sort, since the RRs are backed by the full weight of the national government. A prime, recent example is the Tibet line...
I'll cut the post short here. I'll add more later if there is any interest or questions. I have a few pics, of course. My only major complaint is the smoking on board, which is semi-banned but not always enforced. Even in a non-smoking car, passengers smoke in the vestibules, which is condoned and even ashtrays are provided. Oh, and I can't not mention the restrooms...haha, or holes in the floor. Anyone who has been to the Celestial Kingdom will know what I am talking about here!
Speaking of the Tibet line, I did see the train to Lhasa roll in next to our train, while we were sittting at the station in Xi'an. It was a beautiful dark green train with a yellow stripe, and looked to be full. The sign boards on the cars read: La'sa---Guangzhou. Now that would be the trip to take! Beware the altitude, though.
Best to all for the Holidays---
RR Bob (now comfortably back home in San Diego.)
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Railroad Bob: If you use the following parameters, I think China has the greatest passenger RR system in the world, (comparatively speaking to other world countries.)
1) Size of country related to the density and frequency of passenger service. For example, one evening while sitting for a full hour at some lonely desert outpost in the Gobi, 20 passenger trains went by on the main, each 18 cars long and looked full. Also about 5 freights rolled by. Chinese freight trains are fairly short and there are no American-sized double stacks. Mainlines are electrified mostly, except on some single track branch lines which use diesel-electric. Steam is gone, (I believe) with the possible exception of some small switch/yard jobs in the backcountry. . . . . .
6) If the Chinese need a new line somewhere, they just say "build it." It appears there are no "funding problems" of any sort, since the RRs are backed by the full weight of the national government. A prime, recent example is the Tibet line...
For 1: You should go to India. Their railroad system is larger as is the ridership, by far in both cases. The track may nto be as smooth and some of the amenities may appear less, but remember India is a democracy and people can go where they want to whenever they want, unlike China which still has a lot of controls on what people can do.
For 6: No NIMBY's. If you don't like what the government does and say so, the penalties can be severe. Nothing more than lip service to environmental issues, either.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Hi George, right, I forgot about India. Never had much interest in that place, either to study or visit. But China is at least twice the size of India, speaking of the land-mass, right? What about the safety issues? I hear about Indian trains having quite a few accidents, compared to the PRC trains. Still it's interesting that in countries like these, if there is a railroad going to even the smallest town, it's a sure bet that there will be one (or several) passengers trains serving that place, kind of like America is the booming 40s...
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I recall a few years ago after one of the worst of recent Indian railroad accidents that an analysis in one of the International railroad oriented publications showed that on the basis of passenger miles carried the Indian Railway system compared well with the systems in Western Europe. So, yes they have had some rather spectacular accidents, but they also move unbelievable masses of people.
Have no idea of the Chinese accident statistics, either official or actual, but they can and do squelch reporting of embarrasing news.
At this point India's population is catching up with China and will probably pass it in a few years thanks to the draconian "one child" policies in China. The land mass relationship is not as different as you would imagine from looking at a map, as much of western China is desert and thinly populated, so the heavily occupied areas are not that much different is size.
I have not been to India, either, and I have been to China once and made only one long train trip there, and that 11 years ago, so I have no comments based on observation.
The country that blows me away with their rail service is Japan. Trains to anywhere at any time, clean, reliable, comfortable, convenient.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Thanks for the report Mr. Railroad Bob. Your description of the mountain lines is reminiscent of a trip I took several years ago through the mountains on the electrified line between Seoul and Kangneung on the east coast of South Korea.
Mr. Harris, I appreciate the information on accident statistics. It shouldn't be surprising that trains in India are safe, but hopefully more people considering rail travel will be reassured.
Since people seem respectful on this forum, I hope we can agree to disagree about politics and democracy. But I don't applaud every thing that has been done in China in recent years. Taking people's houses without compensation is not in accordance with the principles of communism.
Posts: 144 | Registered: Sep 2005
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