posted
OK, here is a thread where we can discuss the Trial. Anyone want to go first?
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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"As for your "what if," I must have missed some fact along the way, i.e., what deadly weapon was Martin carrying? His bare hands? The cement sidewalk? Skittles? Iced tea?"
I'm assuming your guesses of Skittles and Iced Tea were jokes? But you actually hit the nail on the head with the cement sidewalk. It's no different than two people being in a bar fight. Let's say that two men are fighting in a bar---no weapons (yet). But then sometime during the bar fight, one guy grabs the other guy's head and he slams it into the corner of the bar. We have now gone from a misdemeanor assault and battery, to a felony assault with a deadly weapon. The weapon is the bar. This is common in all 50 states as to how "assault with a deadly weapon" works. A person does not have to be holding a gun or a knife in order for there to be a "weapon".
In the Zimmerman/Martin case, if Zimmerman did not have a gun (and thus, nobody was shot), keep in mind that the police were already on the way because people were calling 911 from someone screaming for help. The obvious person who was screaming for help was Zimmerman, based upon witness statements of who was on the bottom and who was on the top. Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the cement (assault with a deadly weapon---a felony). The police would have arrested Martin for that felony charge. If it was me in that position, and my head was being slammed agains the cement, it would be a VERY EASY decision to shoot/not shoot---and the decision would be "SHOOT". I would shoot to stop the threat, before I passed out from having my head slammed into the cement. This is a very, very easy case and the outcome should be just as simple: Not Guilty. The rest of the stuff is just "fluff" that means almost nothing to the "guts" of the case itself.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
If the Zimmerman case had gone to the grand jury, he would have been no-billed, and Florida would not be out the cost of this trial.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
This is probably my first and last foray into this area of the forum. Yes, I was being facetious with the skittles and iced tea remarks. I was unaware that "deadly weapons" were all around us, and I learned something there. Thought it had to be a gun or knife or baseball bat or something.
Still think GZ's not gonna walk; if the case is as easy as you make it out to be, the jury would have rendered its verdict in the first hour.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
If GZ does not walk, the US has descended to having political show trials. Has anybody seen a picture of what Travon Martin looked like shortly before he was killed not when he was 12 or 13?
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Ocala Mike: Mike Smith is spot-on. Prior to Jackson/Sharpton/Obama bringing this case to the national spotlight, Zimmerman was already "cleared" by the police department. The case was closed, and Zimmerman was cleared by self-defense. It was until "The Justice Brothers" came into the picture, and Obama said, "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon" that the case was forcefully reopened against the wishes of, well, everyone. They would NOT give it to the Grand Jury because they knew darn well that the Grand Jury would laugh it out of the room.
This whole thing is a travesty. The incident itself, the death, and now the joke of a trial. If Zimmerman is convicted, something is wrong in America. Self defense is self defense. I watched the entire trial, so I have the advantage of not just knowing news "snippets" on the case. I watched every little piece of evidence come in, and listened to every witness. It's so incredibly obvious what happened here, and knowing this, it's amazing to see how the media have produced so many lies about this case, including NBC doctoring the 911 call to make it seem like Zimmerman was "racist".
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
So, Smitty, if you pick a fight with someone, and find yourself losing the fight you started, it's "self defense" to shoot the guy who you started the fight with? Why do you not consider the fact that Trayvon Martin had a right to defend himself against someone he may have thought was going to do him harm? (And turns out he was right). Martin had every right to go about unmolested by Z-boy or anyone else. Remember Z-boy was not wearing any uniform or any badge of authority. He didn't even identify himself as a neighborhood watchman. If YOU were in a strange neighborhood, and found yourself being followed by a guy twice your weight with no form of identity and not identifying himself, what would you do if he came up to you and asked you "What are you doing here"? Would you not think you were about to be attacked? Of course, you would probably be armed, and shot the guy following you. How would the story have played out if Treyvon had shot George under those circumstances? Bottom line, George acted as if he was an actual cop but didn't have the authority to confront Treyvon. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to watch, observe, and report. They don't confront unless someone is in danger. He did not see this kid do anything illegal or else he would have reported it either on the radio or to the detective the next day. He just sized him up as one of those "f***ing punks" who happened to be of the same color. Then the wannabe cop tried to act like a cop. The actions of the Sanfoed Police also should be mentioned.They tested Martin's body for drugs and alcohol, but not Zimmerman's. They made no effort to canvass the neighborhood to see if anyone knew the teen; they just took him down to the morgue and let his parents spend two days searching for him. This would not have played out this way if the races were reversed. That's why people like Jackson and Sharpton are still around; they are still needed.
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Okay, you have obviously only been following the news snippets. You made several comments to go directly against the evidence that was presented in the trial.
It's too late, and I'm too tired to tackle it now....I'll deal with it sometime tomorrow. But just know that you are assuming facts not in evidence, and you are interpreting the Zimmerman/Martin incident incorrectly in many ways. I don't have a dog in this game, so no matter what happens, my life moves on just fine. I'm a facts guy---and that's all I'm doing here is siding with the facts.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Jerome, do you have any proof that: 1. Trayvon thought Zimmerman was going to do him harm? 2. Zimmerman tried to molest Trayvon? 3. Zimmerman tried to attack Trayvon with "what are you doing here"? 4. Zimmerman acted as if he was an actual cop?
I know you "feel" that all of your statements are true, but they are not true, based on the evidence we have seen. Trayvon tried to kill Zimmerman, based on the evidence.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Trayvon tried to kill Zimmerman, based on the evidence.
Even if this is so, he did so in fear of great bodily harm or death at the hands of somebody who was essentially "stalking" him. He "stood his ground."
The OP called the incident, the death, and the trial a travesty. In my view, the death of someone's son at the hands of another is not a travesty, but a tragedy.
I return you all to your regularly scheduled programming, and will be retreating to the friendly confines of the main forum.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:he did so in fear of great bodily harm or death at the hands of somebody who was essentially "stalking" him
Got any proof of that Ocala?
According to the 911 call, there was a 1 minute and 20 second gap where Zimmerman did not know where Trayvon had disappeared to. Trayvon came back to attack Zimmerman, and got himself killed for his actions.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I was gonna delve into this further, but unfortunately, I'm up against someone with knowledge from "snippets" from the news media----and I really don't feel like laying out the whole two week trial in my comments. All I can say is, study the trial notes Ocala Mike. Most of your information is incorrect. You are repeating what the news is saying, and the news is wrong. During the trial, the REAL evidence came out---and it's shocking.
Are you aware that Zimmerman was cleared of any wrong doing and was not charged? Did you know that it wasn't until the Justice Brothers (Sharpton/Jackson/Obama) became involved that things changed? Did you know that the phone call tape (not the 911 tape---Zimmerman did not call 911) was "stolen" from the police by the Mayor, and played to the family as a group? (You DO NOT DO THAT. You separate them individually, by the police---not a politician---and question them as to what they heard).
posted
Well, the Smith Brothers have questioned my scources of information, which is: everything but Fox News! Apparently the Brothers still trust Fox, even though it spectacularly failed them in the last Presidential election. This is not to mean I think Zero Boy will be convicted - after all, the trial is in the same part of Florida that let Casey Anthony walk. Maybe the two of them will get a room together somewhere in a undisclosed location? And Smitty 195 never did answer my question of how he would have reacted if he were being followed by a stranger in an unfamiliar neighborhood.
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Jerome: The trial, to my knowledge, is not being broadcast on Fox News. I have been watching HLN from 6AM (Pacific Time) every day for the last two weeks. Your bias and prejudice is really muddying up your thinking.
I don't recall seeing your question before. I don't think I can answer such a general question like that. First of all, I would not walk alone, at night, in an unfamiliar neighborhood. Also, I am a trained observer, a trained fighter, a trained marksman, and I am also trained to be a good witness. With the extremely limited scope of your question, I am unable to give you an answer. If you want to get more specific, I'd be happy to attempt an answer.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
In other words, you would have defended yourself as best you could. You would have stood your ground.
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Well, Smith Bros, congratulations! Hope you have fun at the victory party tonight!
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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There is no victory party. Why would you think there would be a victory party?
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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I have the hardest time following liberal "logic". So many assumptions and prejudicial views---that are usually wrong. It's actually very interesting to study, but it gets boring after a while....When you can't answer questions or follow facts, turn to Fox News! If that doesn't work, turn to "It's Bush's fault". Brilliant, brilliant minds....I finally understand why "the greatest generation" is so worried and concerned about this country's future. We have a huge chunk---around 50%----who don't "get it". Traditionally, debates and arguments could be handled with facts. But when facts don't work, what's left?? Very, very concerned......
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
No victory parties or reactions to this verdict in Ocala or on my rural horse farm road a little outside town today. Went to the Waffle House this morning for a breakfast that couldn't be beat, and I didn't even hear any of the fully integrated staff or patrons discussing the case. Only raised voice was from some guy who got his hash browns the wrong way.
When I got home, my neighbor up the road, an elderly black man, brought over a few cantaloupes from his garden, and I gave him about a dozen ripe tomatoes from mine. Neither of us brought up the case, only the likelihood of more rain this afternoon.
The jury has spoken; prayers for both families involved in this, and hope that Florida and the nation move on.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Mmmmmmm farm fresh tomatoes. I like them sliced, room temp, with salt and pepper. Great stuff!
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Locally grown tomatoes eaten in the summer have their virtues, but nothing compares to the Athena Cantaloupe, grown in the Southeast and available in the summer months. They are so divine in their flavor that I eat half of one every day in the summer, knowing they will be gone around Labor Day. Coming up close behind them are the other exotic melons, like the Crenshaw and the Orange Flesh Honeydew. But I haven't seen any of those yet this summer, and I havent seen a Persian Melon (a cantaloupe on steroids(, in years! I wonder if these plant species are endangered like some animals?
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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See, we can agree on some things... even if it is only tomatoes and cantaloupes! Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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OF COURSE we agree on some things! We are both on TrainWeb, united by our love of trains! And as with any group, no matter how unified, when the discussion turns to politics or religion, all bets are off!
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Athena Cantaloupe? I've never heard of them. Are they orange (on the inside) like the normal type I'm used to here in west coast grocery stores? I like a morning slice of cantaloupe with a little salt. I don't know if that's normal or nuts, but I learned that from my mom years ago.
On the topic of fresh fruits and veggies....I had THE BEST fresh Nectarines today!!! At my local grocery store (Fresh and Easy), they had a pack of 4 "organic" (not sure what that means) Nectarines for $4. I bought the pack, brought them home, and had one....and then another. So incredibly sweet, and just dripping with juice. Summer fruits from CA's Central Valley are out of this world.
But those excess tomatoes you have Mike, mmmm, wish I lived closer. I'd gladly buy some---you just can't get tomatoes THAT fresh in the stores here. Maybe I'll try the Farmer's Market---I've never been.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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"So incredibly sweet, and dripping with juice" is how I'd describe an Athena Cantaloupe. They are easily distinguished from the Western Cantaloupe by their size (at least twice as big, normally 3 -4 times bigger) and their comparitive lack of veins on the outside skin. Yes, they are orange on the inside, but far softness and more flavorful. I guess they don't travel well, if you've never seen one on the West Coast.
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Jeez... Today had to have been majorly embarrassing for the Trayvon demonstrations. Even JayZ and Beyonce could only scare up a few hundred people in New York!
Too funny!
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
The media is still trying to hang Zimmerman. They make national news out of the poor guy getting pulled over for speeding and let off with a warning. Other than being over the speed limit he was doing nothing illegal. This is Texas. It is perfectly legal to have a gun in your vehicle, it is just supposed to be out of sight. That he told the cop he did was the right thing to do. As to carrying a gun, I don't blame him in the least. He has every right to feel threatened.
(Mike Smith: Please let me know if I have in errors in what I said.)
This from George currently in the People's Republic of Kalifornia.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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You are correct, George. We do not have the duty to inform the officer about our weapon, unless we have a concealed carry permit. As a common courtesy, we will let the officer know we have a weapon in our vehicle. The officer will usually ask where it is and then ask us to leave it alone or move it to an area in the vehicle, away from you.
The fact that Zimmerman notified the officer about the gun and complied with the officer's request to put it in his glove compartment saved Zimmerman from a speeding ticket. The officer let him off with a warning, due to his cooperation. This is a very typical police response in Texas.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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