What happens when #11 runs too late to make the connection? Do they hold #2, or run a bus to catch #2, or what? Any experiences on this score would be appreciated.

they will not hold the Sunset Limited. Usually what happens is this: All passengers on the Coast Starlight that are planning to tranfer to the Sunset Limited are taken off the train somewhere up north, sometimes as far as Emeryville (San Francisco), then they are taken on a very long bus ride and meet the Sunset Limited somewhere around San Bernadino.

If this happens to you, be sure to complain to Amtrak customer service. I think this is an extremely rude way for Amtrak to treat passengers. They should always be given the chance to stay overnight (paid by Amtrak) and take the next train.

These long bus rides are one of the main reasons why I hope to see Amtrak out of business and gone soon. Even though I am a railroad fan, any company that treats its customers this bad does not deserve to be in business. Amtrak should at least warn customers in advance that they routinely do this.

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Originally posted by Konstantin:
they will not hold the Sunset Limited. Usually what happens is this: All passengers on the Coast Starlight that are planning to tranfer to the Sunset Limited are taken off the train somewhere up north, sometimes as far as Emeryville (San Francisco), then they are taken on a very long bus ride and meet the Sunset Limited somewhere around San Bernadino.

I think this is an extremely rude way for Amtrak to treat passengers. They should always be given the chance to stay overnight (paid by Amtrak) and take the next train.

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Konstantin,
I agree a bus ride is a terrible way for Amtrak to solve a train connection problem (and no doubt drives away customers every time it's used), but in this case I'm not sure Amtrak has any good alternatives. If a passenger misses the Sunday evening eastbound Sunset, they would have to stay (at Amtrak's expense) for three nights until the next train (two nights for Wed+Fri trains). Clearly thats not an option for even the least time-sensitive traveler (and then the passengers would really be complaining - why didn't Amtrak use a bus to "catch up" to the Sunset?). Amtrak just can't win.

Now, I don't understand why Amtrak would use a bus all the way from Emeryville to catch the Sunset. The Starlight could be up to six hours late at Martinez and still permit those Sunset passengers to take the San Joaquin to Bakersfield, then a (much shorter) bus connection (but a regularly scheduled one) to Los Angeles and still arrive before the Sunset Limited departs! Admittedly, that suggestion won't work for anyone boarding train 11 south of Oakland.

mccrum,
I don't know if that last suggestion will help your case. I'm not really familiar with these two trains. The best advice I can give is to monitor the Starlight's timeliness before you board to help judge what you might be facing at L.A.

There are several ways that this problem could be solved, and in my opinion, better ways than taking a bus.

First, Amtrak should not portray their schedules as if they really exist. Their schedules are a farce. Amtrak should not lie to their customers. They should be up front with them from the very beginning and tell the truth in their schedules that they are only basic times, and most trains are much later than the schedules suggest. They should also spell out very clearly in their schedules and vacation planners exactly what they plan to do to passengers on trains that are late. The passengers deserve to know ahead of time what the possibilities are.

One possibility is that Amtrak should not take any reservations that assume the two trains will connect. If they do, the people who make the reservations should be told exactly what happens if they miss their connection. Also, Amtrak could fly the people from Los Angeles to possibly Tucson to catch the Sunset Limited. The scenery on the Coast Starlight from San Francisco to Los Angeles is about the best there is on any Amtrak route, and passengers should not be forced to miss it because of a late train. The passengers should be given some choices. Possibly taking the bus to catch the Sunset Limited, taking the plane to catch the Sunset Limited, or staying in a hotel in Los Angeles for the next Sunset Limited at Amtrak's expense, even if this means a few days.

Amtrak needs to realize that when their trains are late, it is their problem (maybe not their fault, but their problem) and it is not the passenger's problem.

I do agree that to be fair, Amtrak should have had a whole lot more funding. But I also see that Amtrak does not even attempt to provide quality service. Some Amtrak employees are very hard working, good people, but for the most part, some of the sorryest, laziest people I have ever met work for Amtrak. These people could care less if their customers are happy. I think it is time to quit wasting money on Amtrak and let them die.

[This message has been edited by Eric (edited 10-01-2001).]

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Originally posted by Konstantin:
DC2001:

Amtrak should not portray their schedules as if they really exist. Their schedules are a farce. Amtrak should not lie to their customers. They should be up front with them from the very beginning and tell the truth in their schedules that they are only basic times, and most trains are much later than the schedules suggest.

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Eliminate timetables altogether as such! Instead, substitute a "suggested itinerary", ie:

Train 11, The COST STARLIGHT, is scheduled to depart Seattle 9:45 AM daily (at least the departure time should be valid!), arriving Portland early afternoon, Klamath Falls late evening, Emeryville/Oakland the following morning, and Los Angeles late evening of the second day. Intermediate stops are made at...

quote:

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Originally posted by Konstantin:
I think you made a very poor decision. I don't know the statistics, but I would guess that the Coast Starlight is a couple of hours late more often than it is on time.

they will not hold the Sunset Limited. Usually what happens is this: All passengers on the Coast Starlight that are planning to tranfer to the Sunset Limited are taken off the train somewhere up north, sometimes as far as Emeryville (San Francisco), then they are taken on a very long bus ride and meet the Sunset Limited somewhere around San Bernadino.

If this happens to you, be sure to complain to Amtrak customer service. I think this is an extremely rude way for Amtrak to treat passengers. They should always be given the chance to stay overnight (paid by Amtrak) and take the next train.

These long bus rides are one of the main reasons why I hope to see Amtrak out of business and gone soon. Even though I am a railroad fan, any company that treats its customers this bad does not deserve to be in business. Amtrak should at least warn customers in advance that they routinely do this.

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As usual, Konstantin has his head up his b*tt, and he also doesn't know the facts. Passengers are not transferred to buses, but to the San Jaoquin to Bakersfield. From Bakersfield, a bus connection to Los Angeles (which is a regular part of the San Jaoquin route). This isn't a suggested way of handling the situation, it *is* the way Amtrak handles the situation.

Konstantin, why don't you just fly?

[This message has been edited by 20thCenturyLimited (edited 11-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by 20thCenturyLimited (edited 11-19-2001).]

I do not know what they usually do, but the last time I rode the southbound Coast Starlight, we were several hours late, and they did put the people on busses all the way from Emeryville. I think they were going to meet the Southwest Cheif in Kingman. In talking with the train attendants, they tell me that this is common. A few years ago when I rode the Coast Starlight, they bussed people from Simi Valley to meet the Southwest Chief in San Bernadino (I may have the stations a little wrong, but something similar to this)

As for the comment about why I don't fly: Most of the time I do fly, but I would rather take a train. Since Amtrak provides terrible customer service, I tend to stay away from it more often than not. When I travel with my wife, I take the train. When I travel with my children, we fly. Until Amtrak gets some better way of assigning seats, it is almost impossible to find six seats together to take my family. That is only one of the many examples of poor quality service.

Please don't misunderstand me. I am a supporter of passenger railroads. I just think that our country could do a much better job of providing passenger service than what Amtrak provides.

Your namesake train, the 20th Century Limited was a quality train. Amtrak's version of it, the Lake Shore Limited is a terrible train.

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Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale) www.geocities.com/evrr

[This message has been edited by 20thCenturyLimited (edited 11-20-2001).]

At SLO, there are three Surfliner schedules that are buses to Santa Barbara then trains to LAX and beyond. Paso, there's one Surfline connection and one San Joaquin Connection, both of which arrive Los Angeles pretty close to eachother.

The first time I attempted to make the westbound connection in 1993 while traveling from New Orleans to Sacramento, the Sunset was 7 hours late. This was too late even to connect with the last San Joaquin of the day. Depending on eventual destination, connecting passengers were routed north on two or three buses on different routes. Though treated to the "stunning" scenery of the Central Valley instead of the central coast in a cramped bus seat, I actually reached Sacramento little later than if on the scheduled Coast Starlight.

The next time I headed west a few years later, this time on the Southwest Chief, I scheduled two nights in San Diego, before heading north on the Coast Starlight via an on-time connection on a then San Diegan.

If making the connection from the north, I'd recommend leaving the Coast Starlight at Santa Barbara, spending a night or two, then continuing on a Pacific Surfliner for an on-time connection to the Sunset. There are a number of hotels and motels in Santa Barbara within easy walking distance of the station. Outside of summer weekends, finding a room shouldn't be too difficult.

What's often overlooked, is that Amtrak as are the airlines are transportation companies. The contract of carriage specifies that the passenger will be provided transportation to the destination. It does not specify by what means or guarantee timeliness, though both are obviously important for return business. Amtrak would prefer that passengers reach their destinations by rail and as close to on-time as possible. When that fails, Amtrak is willing to use other means to try to keep passengers on schedule. Unfortunately, that sometimes means bus transportation.