posted
Awhile back I started a thread on the Frommers rail board entitled "Do you want better trains in the US?" I almost forgot about it until today, then discovered I'd stirred things up. Take a look: http://www.frommers.com/cgi-bin/WebX?128@10.elPDabfs8nT^7@.eec825f
Incidentally, Frommers has combined its rental car, bus and rail forums into one.
[This message has been edited by Mr. Toy (edited 11-18-2004).]
Just read through it. Seems like you got a few people thinking and a few others ranting opinions as a substitute for thought. . . as usual. Good wrap up from you on some of the loonier rants.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Mr. Toy: I agree with Mr. Harris. Your summary of others' arguements, and your rebuttals, were along the lines of what I was about to type at Frommers, but you beat me to the punch. Well done You got some folks thinking, which is productive & helpful, but it was unfortunate that you had a portion of "ranters" as well. At least you were able to reach some of the people. Frommers needs more posts like yours, to counter the negative ones. Keep fighting the good fight.
------------------ Over 20,000 miles aboard Amtrak trains.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain.
posted
Our "paid lobbyist" around here started up a most interesting thread over at Frommers.
The "misinformation" aboundeth, starting with paid.. and ending with God knows what.
But a few random observations on my part after reviewing that thread:
1) The participants over at Frommers are not railfans, you cannot expect them to have "our' level of involvement or interest in passenger rail.
2) If the Frommer site offered some kind of poll, and the question were posted "What percent of all railroad revenues come from passengers?" I'll bet the response would be in the range of 50% (actual; less than 2%).
3) As for the lady who noted her one "bummer' trip on the Acela and thereafter switched to the Chinatown Bus (actually, I have met some rather well to do "yuppies' who ride it; it is some kind of a "cult' thing), all I can note is give Amtrak another chance. Surely you have been on fouled up airline flights; aside from the "refuse to fly" crowd around here, who hasn't??
[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 11-19-2004).]
[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 11-19-2004).]
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Somehow, people seem more forgiving of airline foulups (oh, the punny intention to say fowlups). Usually you will hear lengthy complaints of this or that airline's ineptitude, and meet people who for various reasons have certain companies on their only-if-there-is-no-other-way list. But the airlines are capable of monumental messes, some beyond their control, but a lot of their own making.
With 14 years of working overseas where we make a once a year see everybody marathon plus the occasional special event or emergency trip and a random business trip, total about 25 trans-Pacific trips, we have seen some foulups that were so thorough that they had to have required detailed planning. We are talking DAYS, not hours. Two trips had TWO hotel nights courtesy of NWA. For one of them, one night in San Francisco, where we got on ond off the plane 3 times before it took off, twice backing out and returning, the third without even moving, and the second night in Tokyo. Another time, but with only one hotel night, we went out from Seattle 3 hours and then returned, night in hotel and a wait for the crew to have their required rest before taking off again. Sometime visit the international terminal at LAX at midnight and see what happens when you try to put out a bunch of 747's for 12 hour plus flights from adjacent gates in an hour. But, enough.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
I think we should note, Mr. Harris, that people are more forgiving of airline foulups simply because what are they to do about such?.
Stop flying Northwest and start using United? It is a safe statement they have 'em too.
Alternatives? I don't think either Matson or American President Lines are "exactly' in the passenger business today (I beleve, APL is now owned by Singaporean interests and simply uses the initials as its tradename).
[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 11-20-2004).]
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I think the fellow, from Montana, who was the first to reply to Mr. Toy made some good points. The old indian expression about "don't criticize until you walk in the other guy's moccasins" is valid. The lack of an place to conveniently board the train, surly attendants, poor on-time performance, etc is a real problem with most people..and most people pay taxes.
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: I think the fellow, from Montana, who was the first to reply to Mr. Toy made some good points. The old indian expression about "don't criticize until you walk in the other guy's moccasins" is valid. The lack of an place to conveniently board the train, surly attendants, poor on-time performance, etc is a real problem with most people..and most people pay taxes.
I put my two cents in over on the Frommers board.
Looking at this post I'm reminded of a trip eastward across Montana in coach in 1998. The 'Empire Builder' was absolutely packed with summer tourist traffic, running hours late, and an older diabetic male passenger was having trouble resolving an issue with a somewhat surly car attendant.
We reached a crew change point, probably Havre, and a new conductor comes on board. The passenger stops the conductor and demands "I need your help solving a problem." The conductor replies "I'll find your car attendant for you." The passenger, somewhat dejectedly, responds "My car attendant IS the problem."
Yes, the 'Empire Builder' crews were overwhelmed that day and yes, this particular passenger had a different complaint about every thirty minutes. However, the issue is that too many casual riders have bad experiences with the on-board service folks. A recent example is one I saw on the 'Carolinian' this past weekend badgering a passenger with two small children about being "ready to get all this baby stuff off at Burlington because the train is only going to stop there for one minute and if you're not ready we'll leave with you still on." She (car attendant) started in on this passenger about a minute after leaving Durham with Burlington still at best 35 minutes running time away. Then our 90 minute late 'Carolinian' went into the hole at Mebane, NC for 30 minutes so as not to delay the Raleigh bound 'Piedmont'. The passenger and her children huddled just inside the coach by the door to the vestibule for an hour so as not to be kept on the train when it stopped in Burlington for just one minute. Totally uncalled for.
------------------ David Pressley
[This message has been edited by notelvis (edited 11-21-2004).]
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I hope those of you who agree with the gentleman from Montana realize he begins his post with a great amount of exaggeration.
"The nearest AMTRAK depot to me here in Montana is 6 hours by car from where I live, which is near the biggest city in Montana."
Billings is 207 miles from the Malta station. At 34.5 mph on the open road in the state that just recently established rural speed limits, Mr. Munn could be at great risk.
"Bus service is frequent to Billings, and even to many small local towns."
Two eatbound buses go through Billings at 12:30am and 6:30am. It takes 30-35 hours to get to Chicago, requires 2-3 transfers and multiple bus companies, all of which are subsidized.
"The closest AMTRAK office in Michigan could not give me a firm schedule for arriving in Montana..Not even within plus/minus 12 hours on a trip from Michigan..Nor could I get a firm price even".
The Empire Builder has one of the best on-time performance records on the system. I doubt bus or plane could meet his expectations for firm. Try Julie or the internet!
The Amtrak North Coast Hiawatha ran through Billings in the '70s, almost always on time and full of people. And for probably less subsidy than the bus service currently gets.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Julie might be helpful, but the internet certainly hasn't been lately. I've been trying most of this week to book a very simple trip (SEA/PDX) and I can only get to Step 4 in the process before I get a message saying "Sorry for the inconvenience. Currently there is a system issue preventing your request from being processed.". Yesterday, at one point, I got a message saying that "Maintenance" was being done on the system. I contacted Amtrak via e-mail and got a response saying I would get an answer to my question in 24 hours. That was on Friday.
I guess I'll talk to one of Julie's friends or just go down to the depot.
Frank in sunny SBA AKA "America's Riviera"
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I ache for the days when you could go to your local Amtrak station (without reservations) and take a big and detailed trans-continental trip with 3 stop-overs all-of-a-sudden, pay for your ticket and go! I used to do it repeatedly in the late 1970's and 80's. Oh for those simple days---"you pay your moneys and they you goes!" Wha' happened!?
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Posts: 287 | From: Palatka, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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You got some folks thinking, which is productive & helpful, but it was unfortunate that you had a portion of "ranters" as well. At least you were able to reach some of the people. Frommers needs more posts like yours, to counter the negative ones. Keep fighting the good fight. 
