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Hi all, I'm planning a trip from LA to Tucson over the summer via Amtrak. I have a question for all you Rail-vet's, When I make reservations, I have a choice of the Texas Eagle or the Sunset Limited. One is more money than the other(Texas), but both have the same schedule as the other. Are they the same train? And, can I expect any freight delay's traveling form LA to Tucson? Or does that hit after Tucson? And one more question, Why does it take almost 11 hours(according to Amtrak's website) to get from LA to Tucson, when I could drive and get there in 8-9 hours? Aren't the train faster with less traffic? Just curious why. I would drive, but want to experience rail travel, never been. Thanks to all who reply. Andy
Posts: 4 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Yes, the Texas Eagle and the Sunset Ltd are the same train as far as San Antonio. The rear 2 cars come off (sleeper and coach) and form part of the northbound Eagle to Chicago.
The Sunset has a lot of padding it its schedule - an hour and a half added since 4 years ago between LA and Tucson. This should help with any delays but I think you'll find the worst delays east of Tucson or in the LA area itself.
The railroad might have less traffic than the road in vehicle terms but the highway is not like a railroad. With few restrictions, cars can overtake slower trucks and flows in both directions at once. Much of the railroad between LA and Tucson is single track with passing loops/sidings every 10 miles or so - little opportunity to overtake since the sidings have to be used to pass trains in opposite directions. UP is spending big bucks to double track much of the route but can only realistically do a few tens of miles a year.
Hope that explains things a little - and enjoy the trip!
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I was checking the price on a trip to New Mexico (from LA) recently, and I also noticed that they cahrge more for the Texas Eagle then the Sunset Limited even though its the same train..I dont know why they do this.
Posts: 1082 | From: Los Angeles, CA. USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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So, they have to let all the freight trains go by before the passenger's trains go? How long are the delay's? Are you just sitting on a track in the middle of no-where, hurrying up and waiting? How many "stops" do the make? Or do they crawl behind a freight train, waiting for the opportunity to pass it? Sorry for all the "never-been" on a train before questions(except in europe). And thanks for replying! A
Posts: 4 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by peskyfish: So, they have to let all the freight trains go by before the passenger's trains go? How long are the delay's? Are you just sitting on a track in the middle of no-where, hurrying up and waiting? How many "stops" do the make? Or do they crawl behind a freight train, waiting for the opportunity to pass it? Sorry for all the "never-been" on a train before questions(except in europe). And thanks for replying! A
The short answer to your question is 'Yes'.
To expand a little, all of these scenarios are possible. Stopping in the middle of nowhere to let one, two, or even three freight trains going in the opposite direction; crawling for miles behind a slow moving freight until it reaches a siding.......I've experienced both scenarios on the Sunset. Cannot predict where, when, or how often because every trip is different. Each delay could be anywhere from ten minutes to n hour or more.
If you've absolutely got to be somewhere at the published time, the Sunset isn't for you.....other trains such as the Southwest Chief....seem less susceptible to delay.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Regarding the travel time between L.A. and Tucson: While obviously the train time ought to be significantly less than the driving time, and it's an embarrassment that it's not, remember that an hour of train time and an hour of driving time aren't necessarily equivalent. On the eastbound train you can have dinner, which you'd normally have to stop to do if driving; and on the westbound train, if it's not running too late, you can have breakfast and a full night's sleep, especially if you get a sleeping car room. (In fact, on the westbound trip, there's hardly time for anything else.)
A point of clarification about the conflict between freight trains and passenger trains: You'll often hear passengers, or journalists writing articles about Amtrak, or sometimes even Amtrak crew members, sagely stating that "freight trains have priority over passenger trains". This is not actually true. Amtrak trains have always had legal priority over freight trains on the various host railroads Amtrak trains run on, though the law provides exceptions for "emergenc[ies]", and for the establishment of specific alternative terms by the Secretary of Transportation in response to a host railroad's formal request for "relief" (see U.S. Code, Title 49, Chapter 243, Section 24308(c)). Emergencies might include situations in which the size and/or the position of a freight train makes giving it priority unavoidable or nearly so. The problem is that outright violations of Amtrak's legal priority occur, to the point where at some times, on some host railroads, the rule may seem like one of those that are "more honored in the breach than in the observance". Host railroads will at times violate the law because they know that they'll probably get away with it, and that if Amtrak does take action against them for their pattern of violations, the consequences won't be too high. Often Amtrak will avoid taking action against host railroads because they'd rather not spoil the at least somewhat collegial relationship they have with them.
To expand on Mr. Norman's "supply/demand" answer about why Amtrak is charging more for Texas Eagle seats than Sunset Limited seats from L.A. to Tucson: It sounds as if there is a relatively higher demand for Texas Eagle coach space from passengers traveling from some or all points on the L.A.-Tucson stretch to points north of San Antonio (the city where the trains split), than there is for Sunset Limited coach space from passengers traveling from some or all points on the L.A.-Tucson stretch to points east of San Antonio. Amtrak's pricing honchos are therefore using the higher fares to steer passengers traveling on at least some of the possible itineraries lying entirely within the L.A.-Tucson stretch away from the Texas Eagle coach seats and into the Sunset Limited coach seats, in order to keep a viable number of Texas Eagle coach seats free for passengers who, as indicated above, want to start from some or all points on the L.A.-Tucson stretch and continue north of San Antonio. (The statements about the L.A.-Tucson stretch above may in fact also apply to some or all of the whole L.A.-San Antonio stretch.) Amtrak is arguably foolish to let website customers see this price differential, though, because most people will not think about what the rationale for this situation might be, but will simply conclude that Amtrak is silly and disorganized. Even rail cognoscenti, who might be able to make an informed speculation about what the rationale might be, have little reason to care. Another problem with the existing website situation is that it creates a pitfall, namely the potential for customers to waste money by inadvertently booking space on the higher-priced train. Amtrak should have the software constructed so that only the lower-priced alternative is shown, perhaps with an asterisked footnote to let potential purchasers know that "x" number of additional seats are available at a higher price on a different section of the train, in case someone is trying to buy more seats than are available in the lower-priced section.
By the way, you mention that you're traveling, apparently by coach, from L.A. to Tucson, but you don't mention anything about the return trip. Were you planning to use some other mode, such as flying? Since you're new to American train travel and want to get to know the American passenger train experience, I'd strongly recommend returning to L.A. on Amtrak, but this time in a sleeping car room. It's (obviously) quite a different experience from traveling coach, and one that many of us treasure as one of the greatest of all travel experiences, in concept at least if not always in execution. Note that Amtrak uses private rooms only--not the curtained-off "open sections" you might have seen in old movies, or the semi-public "couchettes" you might have encountered on some European trains.
Posts: 86 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Believe me, Mr. Peskyfish, I gain no pleasure from drawing this analogy, but this famous disclaiming message is not that far "out of line:
NOTICE! TRAVELERS intending to embark on the Atlantic voyage are reminded that a state of war exists between Germany and her allies and Great Britain and her allies; that the zone of war includes the waters adjacent to the British Isles; that, in accordance with formal notice given by the Imperial German Government, vessels flying the flag of Great Britain, or any of her allies, are liable to destruction in those waters and that travelers sailing in the war zone on the ships of Great Britain or her allies do so at their own risk.
IMPERIAL GERMAN EMBASSY Washington, D.C. April 22, 1915
Other than to carefully note (absent your being an impatient Type A person that must always be in control) your personal health and safety is hardly at risk, to travel over the UP does connote a 'war zone' - or maybe a hospital ER after a disaster when service is "triaged'. The war is simply UP struggling to move the freight with the resources at hand. This brings another quotation to mind:
"You go to war with the Army you have, and not the Army you want"
SecDef Rumsfeld
In closing, the Sunset schedule is simply some kind of "funny paper'; you will get there when you get there - alive?, fear not; exasperated? well, depends upon yourself.
Posts: 9979 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
It's not as simple to say that passenger trains have priority over freights. If you have a single track with a passing siding and two trains, one freight, one passenger, and nothing else around, then yes the passenger gets the priority.
However, when you have 10 freights going westbound and only 1 passenger going eastbound, what do you do? Delay all 10 freights, causing congestion further down the line, or do you strike a balance and let Amtrak take some of the delays?
Dispatching is not an easy task, especially on such a relatively busy and constricted railway. When one is sitting on the train, it's easy to say "oh, but we should have been given priority", when the reality is you cannot see the whole picture. The dispatcher CAN the whole picture - and it's (s)he who generally decides who gets priority.
The signallers in the UK have a mantra: minimise overall delay. That means an express may well give way to a local stopping service if delaying the local would cause more delay later on. Not always popular but good for the system as a whole.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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[QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by peskyfish: [qb] So, they have to let all the freight trains go by before the passenger's trains go?
If only all Amtrak passengers would understand that, and that it was not Amtrak's direct fault.
Posts: 1082 | From: Los Angeles, CA. USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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Peskyfish, thus far it has been implied, but not specifically stated, that the Sunset line is the most heavily congested freight line in the nation. But I am told despite the delays, it is still a very good ride IF you are willing to go with the flow, as Mr. Norman stated.
There is nothing like a train trip as a way to relax, see the wonders of our country, and let somebody else do the driving. Just be prepared for delays and let them happen. I think you'll find, as many of us regulars do, that once you are aboard a train, time has less influence on people than it does everywhere else in society. It is a very liberating feeling.
posted
Spot on, Mr Toy. "Go with the flow" is what you have to do. I took the Sunset Ltd all the way from ORL - LAX last month and it was absolutely brilliant (the travelogue is a bit further down the board if you want more details).
Posts: 395 | From: england | Registered: Sep 2002
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"Go with the flow' is great advice. While I would dare say that 99% of "US" here at this Forum, have the same attitude regarding life, this is of course not universal.
I'll never forget my Father (1909-2001), who on a 1963 California Zephyr trip Glenwood-Oakland, was as good as a caged lion "How can I WORK with this thing rattling around'. 'You mean it doesn't get there until tomorrow AFTERNOON????...now Gil, you should have been more honest about this!!!!!
We "bailed out' at 3rd Street for a taxicab direct to The Mark, and I was never to get that last mile to Middle Harbor in the mileage book. Suffice to say, he 'abandoned ship' for the return that my Mother and I did on the "Daylight-LAUPT-Super" (my Mother had the Drawing Room all to herself; I had my Roomette).
Posts: 9979 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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When it works, yes! I spent the last 5 hours on an ailing and late Sunset Ltd into LA with no head end power - toilets would not flush and it was 90 degree heat outside. Inside was like a greenhouse - and a smelly one at that. The doors between cars were kept open but most people were downstairs where there were opening windows.
But that's a rarity, unlike here in the UK where the first hint of heat throws the AC on trains into apoplexy.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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How many "stops" do the make? Or do they crawl behind a freight train, waiting for the opportunity to pass it? Sorry for all the "never-been" on a train before questions(except in europe).
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