posted
As I've noted both at this and other Forums, it would not work.
I think I can be categorized as an Auto Train veteran having made some 15 trips, including one with the private concern, over the years. I have found that long about noon the following day (I've been as much as 15hrs late) "arewerthereyetitis' sets in and fast.
The passengers using Auto train, or at least in season when I use it, are not railfans. They are not even train riding enthusiasts, or non-fans that simply enjoy the laid back environment of an LD train travel experience. They are simply people that are looking for the most expedient way to move the Bennie-Caddy-Lex South for an extended stay. Yhey are not about to drive around in some wind up toy for maybe three months that an auto rental concern calls a 'full sized car'. They are accustumed to driving about in something that is "not exactly' seen on the auto rental lot, and they are of financial means that they are not about to compromise.
I believe any kind of Auto train service away from the existing NE-Florida route would prove to be a hard sell. Auto Train Corp found that out the hard way, when they initiated service Sanford-Louisville using equipment hauled by a long defunct Amtrak train, the Floridian.
Stick to what works, and be thankful it is there.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I dissagree. Louisville to Florida is not the same as L.A. to Florida. I think a lot of seniors familiar with their own car would use this service coast to coast. The I-10 corridor here in Beaumont is full with California/Florida cars. My one concern would be drug smugglers....
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I think an Auto-Train Coast-to-Coast that takes for-ev-uh to get there would not work either. As it is now Amtrak's 'Sunset Limited' has an on-time schedule that can be clocked with a sundial.
Fugetaboutit!
If anything Amtrak should build a High-Speed rail of their own from NOL-LAX, run it daily and have it connect with the City of New Orleans, Crescent, and the current Sunset Limited which would only go from ORL-NOL.
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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Texas has just added a Houston-College Station-Temple, the T-bone, to the High speed train corridor. It connects the South Central High Speed Corridor with the Gulf Coast High Speed Corridor.
BTW, Europe put cars onto their high speed trains going under the English Channel.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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BTW, Europe put cars onto their high speed trains going under the English Channel
I would presume that translates to mean that automobiles are handled on railcars through the English Channel tunnel. If that be the case, the statement is correct, here is some material in support of the statement:
Passengers either take the train from the international terminal at Waterloo, or drive their own car onto 'Le Shuttle' and remain with their vehicle for the journey. Four cars are sealed into each carriage, the white plastic and chrome interior of which gives one the curious feeling of being locked inside a large, cheap, tumble dryer
There are other "auto train' services in Europe traversing the various Alpine X-ings between France, Switzerland, and Italy. I once rode such during 1960 under the St Gotthard Pass.
But is should be noted these journeys are of very short duration; no amenities need be offered as passengers simply remain in their autos.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Maybe on the Surfliner or Coast Starlight? But Amtrak is not even thinking about that right now!
Posts: 1082 | From: Los Angeles, CA. USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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What if there was simply an option to drop your car off at Sanford, fly to LAX, then pick up your car a couple of days later? A couple of days in a rental car?
This would be similar to the scheme where somebody drives your car for a fee within a certain timeframe. In this case the car owners will also be without their own vehicle for a few days. The advantage Amtrak would have is security and the knowledge that somebody "unknown" has driven thrashed and wrecked your trusty tin.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by CoastStarlight99: Maybe on the Surfliner or Coast Starlight? But Amtrak is not even thinking about that right now!
I wasn't holding my breath for it. lol. SL first needs to fix it's on time problem and get daily serves before considering an auto-train.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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Amtrak does not have authority to haul freight - neither did the private Auto Train Corp. When Amtrak assumed the ATC's operations, that presumption of hauling passengers with autos, save emergencies such as 9/11, would be the nature and scope of the business.
There are several private sector concerns that offer combination passenger and auto plans. some even use rail service to move the auto, however all only offer air travel to move you.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
No. I don't believe an Auto-Train on the sunset route would prove viable. As Mr. Norman points out, the route is too long and as others have mentioned the timekeeping would be too unreliable. Citing the failed Louisville-Sanford Auto-Train route is entirely appropriate for this discussion. That train failed mostly because the train did not cover the route quickly enough to appeal to the clientle an auto-train service is intended to attract.
The northeast-Florida route can be (CSX notwithstanding) covered in the 18 hours or so that well-heeled snowbirds are willing to put up witha train. This demographic and this migratory path are not duplicated to the same extent on the Sunset route.
INTERESTINGLY HOWEVER, I did spot three former auto-train car carriers in service on a UP freight train while riding the Eagle earlier this week.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I think, Mr. Pressley, those carriers were en-route to a scrapyard somehwere in Texas.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
What does time keeping have to do with the Sunset Limited. The reasoning for an auto-train on the SL is for Califorians to have their own car in Florida/east coast and vice-versa. Save people the long and tiring drive. Unless you thought I ment an auo-train port at every stop on the SL. No, just Sanford and L.A. The extra money for the service would cut down on subsidizes. L.A. MSA of nearly 13 million and Orland/Miami 1.5/5 million people could support the service. 200 cars on 1 train at $2,000 would be a $400,000 in revenue per train.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by gp35: What does time keeping have to do with the Sunset Limited. The reasoning for an auto-train on the SL is for Califorians to have their own car in Florida/east coast and vice-versa. Save people the long and tiring drive. Unless you thought I ment an auo-train port at every stop on the SL. No, just Sanford and L.A. The extra money for the service would cut down on subsidizes. L.A. MSA of nearly 13 million and Orland/Miami 1.5/5 million people could support the service. 200 cars on 1 train at $2,000 would be a $400,000 in revenue per train.
People who ride the current auto-train are not of the 'railfan' sect. They are not interested in unusual consists or unique routes. They are not interested in going in the hole for another twin-stack freight every thirty minutes. They are interested in point A to point B transportation but only willing to allow 16-24 hours to that end.
The auto-train is marketed as a premium service at a premium fare to people who will not accept poor timekeeping (ie: a train that virtually never reaches it's endpoints anywhere near on-time) or a train that would take three or four days (LA - Sanford) to complete it's trip.
The existing auto-train succeeds because the route is the 'just-right' length for the clients it's marketed to. One writer addressing a different subject noted that had Amtrak not been created that it is probable Seaboard's New York-Florida streamliners would have been the last surviving privately operated long-distance passenger trains. The market for travel in that corridor is firmly established and the trip is "about the right length" for most potential passengers..........stretch it to more than one night and the majority of the auto-train demographic would lose interest.....just not willing to give that much time over to pure travel.
Personally, I would like to see the auto-train concept extended into other Amtrak markets. I just don't believe that the Sunset route is a strong candidate for getting that type of service. The 'Texas Eagle' route mid-Illinois to Dallas area would be a stronger candidate......due to the length of trip thing again.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
People ride the train for different reason. Just because those riding the auto-train ride for X reason, does not mean others won't ride for Y reason. I would use an auto-train on the SL if it was available. I'm sure there is more people like me on the very highly populated I-10 corridor who feels the same. We just have a difference of opinion.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
When we road the Ghan from Sydney to Alice Springs in 2001 there were a number of AutoCarrier cars and they seemed to be quite popular. I believe they are also used on the Indian-Pacific, coast to coast which is comparable in distance to Orlando/Los Angeles. The cost would have to beat out a rental at the other end, though, and I doubt that the economics would work.
Frank currently in TLH but soon to be home in sunny SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
There were two basic reasons for failure of the of the Louisville to Florida Auto Train failure other than length of trip. One was the attempt to mix the AutoTrain and standard passenger service on the same train. The autotrain people may not feel the occasional passenger stop at long intervals as unreasonable delays, but if stops are frequent or long they will. The other, and probably more important was the erratic timekeeping over the L&N / SCL due to traffic and track conditions prevailing at the time. The average running speed was also significantly less than that on the East Coast route. The 18 hour east coast time is about the same as reasonable driving time with stops for that route. The Lousiville to Sanford time was several hours slower than driving time.
As to a 2 night Auto Train, who knows what the market is right now? Maybe a six month trial could be run, but I would think the SL route would not be the one to try, not until a reasonably reliable schedule could be achieved.
Australia does not have the equivalent of the long distance interstate hgihway system on the route of either the Ghan or the India Pacific. Instead, you are talking a long drive on a two lane highway with lots of trucks, so it is really not a good equivalence.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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