posted
As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm thinking of making a relatively quick trip on the Cardinal next March or April, since I fear it's endangered, and since I've never been on it and you all say how nice it is, esp that time of year before the trees leaf in. But I have a few questions:
(a) I know from your posts that the route is nicer west to east, but which side of the train has the best views in that direction? If I take it both ways, should I see what's on the other side when I go east to west, or should I view the same side in case I miss something in the other direction, in your opinion?
(b) The sleepers starting in 2007 are simply too expensive for me, especially since I will have the cost of a motel or hotel in Charlottesville or Washington because the train is too late getting back to NYC so I'll have to catch another train (or bus-train combo) the next day. But the Cardinal is a Viewliner train, with no observation car. If I go coach, will I be able to see enough? Will it be too crowded that time of year in coach? In your opinion, if I can only go coach, is it worth my going at all?
(c) I have always wanted to see downtown Indianapolis and likely will do that on this trip if I can afford a few nights there. What it seems best to do is go down to NYC and catch the Cardinal to Indianapolis on a Wednesday, arrive in Indianapolis on Thursday and stay there 2 nights, catch the Cardinal or a bus to Chicago early Saturday morning, mosey around in Chicago until the Cardinal leaves, and take the Cardinal back later in the day to either Charlotteville or Washington on Sunday. Is there a reasonably priced and conveniently located (but comfortable, safe and clean) hotel or motel anyone recommends in downtown Indianapolis and in Charlottesville near the train station?
(d)Will Charlottesville be a problem on a Sunday (that day was a problem for me in downtown Jacksonville, for instance--nothing going on, a waste of time to be there then!)? I'm tempted to stay there instead of Washington because I get to Washington enough, and because Charlottesville will be cheaper. But I don't want to stay there if there is nothing to do or see without a car. (Also, I've been to Monticello so don't need to see that--though it was very long ago!)
Thanks so much for your help!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
a) Side of train varies.....let's assume that you are going west to east on the Cardinal. When the sun first comes up you should be in Kentucky with great views of the Ohio River on your LEFT. Left is probably best for the next few hours. Your views will include the Kanawha River and the West Virginia state capitol dome still on your LEFT as you pass through Charleston.
At some point about 30-45 minutes after leaving Montgomery, WV you will see an attractive small town across the river still on your LEFT. This is Gauley Bridge, WV. Shortly after this point the train crosses the river and enters the New River Gorge. From here all the way to Charlottesville most people would prefer the RIGHT side of the train. That's where the river is at first and that's the side that will have the most stunning views later as you descend off Afton Mountain down into Charlottesville.
b) The amfleet II coaches are not bad and the windows are generally a little better than one would assume. This is contrary to the plan you have outlined BUT I believe that the Tuesday night departure from Chicago is likely to be the least crowded on this train. I do miss the superliner equipment on this route though.
There is a Hampton Inn listed on trainweb within one half mile of the Charlottesville station. If this is too posh for you, there is stll the Olde Towne Inne in Manassas just three blocks from the station. HOWEVER, if you have had to settle for coach, the hotel in Charlottesville is going to pamper you and that's preferable!
c) Indianapolis Hotel - There is one that backs up to the train/bus station in Indy. (It is literally within 50 feet of the platform but blocked from view by a corrugated metal wall. You must leave the rail/bus terminal, walk half a block, turn to walk through the railroad underpass, and then turn to walk back half a block to access it though.) Some of the rooms are in old pullman cars parked on the surplus union station tracks. This property used to be a Holiday Inn but it has been transferred to another operator. It's convienant but pricey. I have never stayed there myself but I snuck through their lobby once while going to see Kentucky play Indiana in basketball at the adjacent RCA Dome.
d) The Amtrak station in Charlottesville is within a mile or so of the University of Virginia campus. If you are there while school is in session, I think you'll find places open and buzzing even on a Sunday afternoon.
Now I'm ready to go for a ride on the Cardinal myself!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why not try a roundtrip via the Cardinal and Capitol. I believe a roomette on the Capitol may be less expensive than the Cardinal. If you do wind up in Charlottesville on your return, another option would be take the Crescent the next morning back into DC.
If you go via the reverse route and take the Cardinal westbound, I highly recommend a regional train to Ashland, Va in the afternoon, the morning train into Richmond then the Thruway connection over to Charlottesville. You can't beat the Henry Clay Inn in Ashland for train watching. Sit on the front porch with a cool one and watch the parade go by. Ashland also happens to be where I went to college many years ago and is a great small town with the Ironhorse restaurant offering outstanding food with a trackside location.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Further to David's excellent description, I would add that you should try to install yourself on the left hand side of the train as your chosen seat (going west to east) as I would say there are more hours of scenery on that side than the other. This includes Cincinnatti and DC in addition to the sights already mentioned.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Whenever I've traveled on the Cardinal, the coaches have been extremely full, in part because the train doesn't run every day. If you decide to take the plunge, make sure that you not only get to NY Penn and/or Chicago Union Station well before departure time, but that you're also near the head of the line when it comes time to board. Otherwise, you risk spending much (if not most) of your trip in an aisle seat -- where you'll quickly realize that you would have been better off staying home.
quote:Originally posted by palmland: Ashland also happens to be where I went to college many years ago and is a great small town with the Ironhorse restaurant offering outstanding food with a trackside location.
While at Randolph-Macon, Mr. Palmland, did your barracks or frat house have a rail side view???? We both know the campus is quite visible from Amtrak while rolling down Center Street.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
The sleepers on the Capitol are almost $200 cheaper than the Cardinal. There is no dining car on the Cardinal,just a snack car. I miss the old Superliner days too.
That said I still enjoy taking the Cardinal in the fall. I travel in Coach going East. One night in coach I can handle. In late October I booked a nice weekend trip.Southwest had a $49 fare to Chicago from Philly.I booked that for Saturday morning,then I ll take CTA into Chicago and take the Cardinal back that night. with the H570 code(someone here alerted meto it..I didnt know it existed)the coach fare drops to $56. For a little over a hundred bucks I have a nice weekend planned.
One nice thing when you wake up in the morning you have a whole day of train riding to look forward to. Thats my idea of a nice way to spend a day!
Posts: 176 | From: Bloomsburg Pa | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by palmland: If you go via the reverse route and take the Cardinal westbound, I highly recommend a regional train to Ashland, Va in the afternoon, the morning train into Richmond then the Thruway connection over to Charlottesville. You can't beat the Henry Clay Inn in Ashland for train watching. Sit on the front porch with a cool one and watch the parade go by. Ashland also happens to be where I went to college many years ago and is a great small town with the Ironhorse restaurant offering outstanding food with a trackside location.
You have made a fantastic suggestion. I spent a weekend getaway at the Henry Clay in February 2005 and found it a fantastic railfan destination!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
If this train had a Superliner trainset, it would have more capacity - particularly with the sleepers. The Viewliner sleeper has fewer rooms (and room variety) than a Superliner sleeper. The Viewliner sells out quickly - and thus the higher prices. With more capacity, supply and demand takes hold and the sleeping accommodations may come up cheaper. A Sightseer Lounge, in place of a full service Superliner Diner, would even be an improvement over current single level operations.
This route, and its scenery, is deserving of a Superliner Sightseer Lounge Car. Cut the terminus back to Washington DC.
I remember when this train operated with up to two Superliner Sleepers, a Trans Dorm/Sleeper, Sightseer Lounge, full service diner and at least three coaches. Its consist today is a joke. That's why I am hesitant into buying into the theory that the Cardinal's extension to NYC actually boosted ridership. There was some sort of lull in between the transition between bi-level and single level trainsets that seems unaccounted for - or some sort of funny accounting.
Posts: 337 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for all the info, and anyone with any more info (esp re hotels in Indianapolis), do feel free to add more!
David, I feel a little guilty getting all this helpful info from you, since if I do the Cardinal trip next year, I likely won't be doing the trip through NC and to New Orleans (not enough moolah for all that and the Banff trip too!). But, hopefully there's always 2008!!! (one never knows with Amtrak, but I do think I'd better get to the Cardinal soon, especially. . .. )
JP, having the train go to NYC has not been helpful for me in the west-to-east direction, even though I am going back to NYC and, from there, upstate. That's because it simply gets into NYC too late!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Somewhere on the internet I've read that the Cardinal operates under the patronage of influential Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia and that he also specified the train's scheduling through his state. If such be the case, the train will run at least as long as he is a Senator.
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by delvyrails: Somewhere on the internet I've read that the Cardinal operates under the patronage of influential Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia and that he also specified the train's scheduling through his state. If such be the case, the train will run at least as long as he is a Senator.
But given that Senator Byrd, a great Amtrak supporter, is about 90 years old now......well....every day is a gift.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
High seniority congressmen tend to get what they want. At one time West Virginia had three passenger train routes under Amtrak:
1. The Cardinal or did they call it the George Washington then, which was I believe daily, and in its early days had a Charlottesvelle to Richmond to Newport News section as well as the Washington DC section. 2. The Mountaineer which ran the Norfolk and Western from Norfolk to was it Cattletsburg WV where it connected with the GW / C. 3. A Washington DC to Parkersburg WV train on the B&O main through Cumberland. This was a Turbotrain at the beginning. All of these were somewhat less than large volume people haulers.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ah yes, George -- I fondly remember the George Washington/James Whitcomb Riley, the Mountaineer, and the Shenandoah!! Wish we still had those routes (of course, the route of the Capitol Ltd between WAS and Cumberland is the same route that the Shenanadoah started on)
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Item no. 3 was known as "Harley's Hornet" or the "Harley Staggers Special", after the noted House transportation legislator from Keyser, West Virginia, who instigated its operation.
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
George, I,too, remember the George Washington/James Whitcomb Riley. We used to take it from Chicago to DC. I never figured out why the name change to the Cardinal. I know that is the state bird of Va. but the train starts in NY and ends in Illinois.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mr. Norman, thanks. At least something now makes sense. Sojourner, remember there is no checked baggage or diner on the Cardinal. When they changed over from superliner to viewliner I was told it was because there had been a number of accidents and they were running short of superliners to replace the "injured" ones. Since the cardinal runs only 3 days a week they felt they could replace theirs. I imagine the same thing applies to the diner but as far as no checked baggage "'tis a puzzlement". Does anyone know the answer?
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I returned from Nam I rode cross country Oakland - Chicago on the Zypher and from Chicago to Washington on the JWR/GW. At that time there was a dome Chicago to Charlottesville. No baggage car. I had a footlocker and a large duffel bag checked. Went looking for them, and found that one of the roomettes was full of baggage, including my stuff. Rode coach, except sleeper Denver to Chicago. Spent most of the trip across WV in the dome. About 4 hours late from Cincinatti on. Roared out of Chicago on the fast adn dead straigth IC main, then made the left turn at Kankakee and settled down to a bumpy 25 mph for most of the distance from there to Cincinatti. This was early December 1971.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
An excellent Indianapolis hotel is the Omni Severin Hotel. It is just a block from the station and its rooms facing the front have a good view of the tracks with plenty of freight action plus the Cardinal and Hoosier State. The hotel with the old Pullmans is the Crown Plaza. Take the Omni if you find a good rate. My recent Cardinal ride revealed a lounge car with tables in the dinette end that were not next to windows and the inconvenient lack of checked baggage. Incidentally, I went to Randolph-Macon briefly in the early 1970s...when did you attend, Palmland?
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks again, everyone. I have checked both the Omni and Crowne Plaza prices and I'm afraid they are well above my budget. According to my (year old) Triple A guide, there was a Comfort Inn & Suites on S Capitol across from the RCA Dome, but it seems to have closed! Other hotels are further from the train station but I guess I need to consider those--the Hampton Inn isn't too far, and it's a lot less expensive (plus includes breakfast).
There is a chance, though, that I may get in to Indianapolis on an Amtrak bus kinda late. Would that be a problem, getting to the Hampton Inn? What is downtown Indianapolis like at night? (It would be a week night.)
Thanks!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
SilverStar92 - I graduated in 1966. From my freshman room in Thomas Branch, I could look out my bunk and see the RF&P. I was there for the big show, but did I take pictures, no. If only....Was more interested in frat parties and sweet young things.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Palmland- I attended RMC in fall 1972 before coming back to Florida. I lived in one of the then-new dorms and had a great view of the RF&P. It was great. I used to see the original AutoTrain pass while I was running on the track for PE...I'd run backwards so I could watch it sail by. That was a great place for train watching. I even remember seeing an RF&P local freight back into a little siding by the south end of campus close to downtown. BTW, I like your pen name...I once rode the Palmland from Jax to Miami.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sojourner- Too bad the rates are so high but not a surprise. We recently spent a week in Indy and found downtown fine for walking in the evening. I do not recall seeing the Hampton but the AAA book shows it to be close to the Omni, perhaps 4 blocks from the station. That is a nice city to visit with lots of sights to see. Many great things like the zoo, Indiana State Museum, and minor league baseball stadium are on the western edge of downtown within an easy walk. During the day there is a free shuttle trolley that runs on many downtown streets so getting around is easy. There are also 2 Courtyard Marriotts within a mile of the station so check them but otherwise that Hampton looks good.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
