posted
Went to pick up our friends last night, they were coming in on the late CS, about midnight. The main lobby was quite dark and the floor wet from its recent mopping. We settled down quietly in the inner lobby area and read our books for about 1/2 hour. The security guard then approached and asked if we were traveling out on a train. (At midnight? Maybe the next morning's CS?) No we happily replied, just waiting to pick up friends.
Well he said, you will have to leave the building and sit in the outside patio. You are kidding me I said. No indeed, no one is allowed to sit in the building unless they are taking a train (or a guess a Thruline Bus, some of them leave during the night.) He also told several other people the same thing.
I suppose this is an effort to prevent transients from using the building but I do hope we did not look like street people. That outside patio would have been a bit cool and damp at that hour but at least it wasn't raining.
We chose instead to wander up the tunnel and wait by the Amtrak tracks. Once our friends appeared we were just a step away from our parking area in the MTA lot. I noticed that none of the other sitters, respectable looking all, got up and moved.
It does seem that some judgement might be used in deciding who can actually sit in the building. But perhaps that is too much to ask. It is another all or nothing thing I guess.
Sue will post a report of her trip soon, I hope. She had an interesting time on the LA to CHI circuit, SWC, CZ, CS.
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
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Not the best approach in my opinion on how to treat the general public.
They should focus more attention on the guys that beg for spare change during the day time. Gets pretty old after being asked for the fifth time by the same guy (sorry tangent rant).
I look forward to a trip report, if posted, about her Amtrak journey, especially the part about the Southwest Chief. Always enjoy reading about that train
-------------------- Matt Visit gallery for photos of our train layouts Posts: 579 | From: San Bernardino Subdivison | Registered: Dec 2001
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Miss Vickie, sorry the incident occurred, but if the security guard, likely working for not much more than minimum wage, were to start making discretionary calls, Catellus could be open for discrimination matters.
That you observed others who ignored the guard's "directive", that was an action on their part that could have found themselves on the wrong end of a Catellus sworn peace officer, or even LAPD.
Last Friday, I got the shakedown from TSA at ORD; you know me face to face - do I look like Abdul Abbas or whoever? I don't think so, but if TSA did not have a random selection process in place they would be on the wrong end of discrimination matters.
Just my thoughts; but glad to learn you and Mr. Art were "good sports" about it all.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I've been sitting in the main hall of Union Station in the late morning when it is very busy, and the security guards have gone up to transients telling them to leave. I think it's a great idea, because they stink, they're usually drunk or high, and it's not good to have them sitting next to little kids or families. One woman was sitting there passing gas over and over and picking her nose. Finally a security guard came and told her to leave. But I'm not sure why they do it late in the evening like that when you're obviously there for train business, even if you're not traveling. I wonder if that security guard was overstepping what he was told to do? I wouldn't even know who to contact for that---Amtrak? Catellus? The City? The security company?
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Last Friday, I got the shakedown from TSA at ORD; you know me face to face - do I look like Abdul Abbas or whoever? I don't think so, but if TSA did not have a random selection process in place they would be on the wrong end of discrimination matters.
Just my thoughts; but glad to learn you and Mr. Art were "good sports" about it all.
I totally disagree with the TSA'a stance on profiling. Targeting Arab males between the ages of 17 and 40 is not racial profiling, it is criminal profiling. Racial profiling would be targeting all Arabs, from the new born to the ancient grandma.
And I was panhandled in LA's Union Station by a woman. I told her No.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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I doubt that there exists a regular Amtrak passenger who has not been panhandled.
A good way to deal with them is to decline politely and offer to escort them to Traveler's Aid. (They do get all huffy, but they remember you and leave you alone next time.)
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Criminal profiling has been going on for eons, but the PC media has turned an excellent crime fighting tool into something that seems "disrespectful". A simple example of criminal profiling would be this: If you have a ritzy neighborhood with multi-million dollar homes, and then one night at 3 o'clock in the morning, a low-rider with 6 young Hispanic males with bandanas pulls into the neighborhood and starts driving around---well guess what? That is unusual! Does it mean they're all going to jail? Nope. Does it mean they've automatically committed a crime? Nope. Does it mean it's suspicious and should be looked into? Absolutely! Anyone living in that neighborhood would (rightfully) call the police. Unfortunately, in these times that we are living in, so many common sense issues are being tossed out the window for reasons that I simply do not accept (or fully understand). I think the masses are being a little bit brainwashed, as crazy as that might sound. I hope things get back to normal some day....I really do.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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On my travels over the years I have noticed that Washington DC and Chicago have an ebb and flow when it comes to panhandlers. It gets worse and worse until you arrive one day and the panhandlers are gone----then it starts all over. DC was like running a gauntlet a few years back.
Security guards and TSA are not like the real police. They have more power than their brains can handle. TSA people give me no confidence at all.
Posts: 139 | From: myrtle creek oregon | Registered: Jul 2006
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LA's Union station is the only place I have ever been asked to show proof that I was traveling on a train. Once shown the tickets the security lady went on her way. But I have to question the IQ of this woman - I had two pieces of luggage in my possesion with Amtrak luggage tags clearly visible. (My next destination was Williams Junction, AZ - no checked baggage to there.)
Dee
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
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You know Dee, on second thought just having 2 pieces of luggage tagged with Amtrak tags doesn't prove that you're going on Amtrak.Of coure you could have had bombs in there and who would know.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Almost 70 - White haired, Great Grandma - Mobility and breathing challenged - Most grateful for the Red Cap who got me and that luggage to that seat in Union Station (and dependent on him coming back and getting me to the train) ---
Pretty safe bet I am traveling on Amtrak.
One would think security's time would be better spent dealing with the drunk that was slumped on the floor at the entrance to the rest rooms. Or to the panhandler that was looking for "coffee money".
Dee
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
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Dee, just to play devil's advocate..Did security lady know your age, you are physically challenged and a great grandmother? Or maybe she was just showing that she was IN CHARGE.I have found this security thing to be rather uneven. Only once in Denver have we had to show ID. In DC every time we check bags,In Chicago we get passes in the lounge and then go out to eat. Never once has anyone stopped us when coming back to check,once going south on the Crescent. One would think they could get their act together.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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I have occupied those big leather chairs in L.A. Union Station many times and have never been accosted by security. Of course I've never been there very late at night, but I have seen security guards ejecting various dubious characters who have no reason to be there. The only time I have been asked for ID is in Buffalo's Depew station. Why this station and not big city terminals e.g. Chicago, L.A., Denver, Seattle, New York seems strange. So called security is whatever someone feels like doing at any particular moment. For example it says on the Amtrak Website you are supposed to show ID when you purchase an Amtrak ticket, but not once have I ever been asked to do so by any ticket seller.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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The same thing here. I have never shown id.also seniors are supposed to show picture id and we have never shown any of any kind. Oh yes, you are supposed to sign your tickets and half the time I don't . No one has caught it yet.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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I make 2 or 3 little sojourns to LA each month from my little 'burg of San Diego. I've had some personal experience with this topic as well...it seems that after the second-to-the-last southbound Surfliner departs at 8:30 PM, the guards do a methodical "sweep" of Union Station, and I mean EVERYBODY in the main lobby. Having luggage "next to you" means nothing- it could be somebody sitting there with all their worldly possessions. So when I missed the 8:30 by 5 minutes last month, I had to "sit it out" and wait for the 10:10 PM Surf. I had my Amtrak company ID, but no paper ticket. That did it, and he let me stay, but that guard was covering everyone, no matter what they looked like. Like others have said, the guards cannot take it upon themselves to pick and choose who gets asked; it's gotta be all or none. I am glad they do it; skid row is not far from LAUS and I recall in the 80s, the station actually had street people living in the depot, in grimy corners with all their "stuff."
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Let us hope Catellus is not reviewing this topic too closely, as those plush chairs that I noted on any on my visits to LAUPT (last visit 1991), and evidently are still in place, could easily be replaced with plastic bus stop seating.
What Catellus could get for those chairs from collectors would easily pay for some plastic.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Yes, they own the building. And they have all the nice, close to the elevator parking spots in the MTA garage reserved for themselves.
I guess that you can't let the security guards decide who to let stay and who has to leave but it sure seems there should be a way for people to wait inside to pick up passengers.
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
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I would think that common sense (Looking at the train board and seeing that there was a late train.) would enter into the decision by the security guard.
And, I can personally vouch for the fact that neither you nor Art look like trouble. Well, maybe Art.
Frank in overcast SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Right Frank, there is usually a smattering of business for that last Surfliner, the 10:10 PM southbound. After that one departs, the guards must get really vigilant--could be people waiting for a late Starlight to pick up arriving passengers, or passengers waiting for one of those obscure Ambusses that leave between MN and 4 AM... I am idly wondering what they do with the "meeters," ie. the legitimate people waiting for a late #11. These persons would not be able to present a paper ticket, yet still have a valid reason for being there. It would be kind of harsh to "put them out" into the cold on one of the outside patios...?
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Bob, legitimate meeters is what we were, waiting for that late #11. And respectable looking, except for Art as noted by Frank above. But we were to be put out in the cold. Funny that he didn't care when we wandered down the tunnel to the tracks. There were a few other meeters there and they seemed to ignore the go outside request.
By the way, are you joining in on the quotation mark challange? (Just teasing Gil a bit).
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
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I've got to admit you've got me there--what pray tell is the "quotation mark challenge?" If GBN is involved, I'm sure it will be a thoughtful, well-reasoned kind of thing...(-:
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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