posted
Too soon after our cross country trip I found myself in Florence, SC waiting for the 11:39 am Palmetto to Richmond. This was a long planned visit with friends for my college homecoming weekend in Ashland, VA. So I was looking forward to it, even though a nor'easter promised to make the weather miserable.
No. 90 was on time throughout the trip, until just south of Staples Mill station. We sat there for about 10 minutes until the Silver Star cleared the station and then pulled in a little before 5:30pm. A nice trip.
The train was in good shape. Business class was sold out, so I was in coach (and it was almost full too). I was pleasantly surprised. It was clean, even the carpets, all seats had electrical and both the passengers and the car were strangely quiet throughout the trip. Maybe CSX track work is paying off.
And there was plenty evidence of track work north of Florence. The prior day ended an extended period where the Palmetto made a detour to avoid the work. It was evident, though, that work would continue after the weekend. Ties were placed beside the track on double track segments and work train equipment was sitting in various sidings.
I was happy to see the Business class/cafe car was on the rear (the proper place for first class passengers) and was envious of those in the nice leather 2/1 seating with a good view out the rear window.
I wonder if additional coaches are added in Washington. Since Amtrak now places the cafe in the middle of the train on NEC, that would explain the cafe/BC being on the rear. Our train had a baggage, 4 coaches (3 of them LD 25xxx), and the BC/cafe.
Our tailgate area in Ashland was maybe 50 feet from the track, but that was small compensation for standing for five hours in a 45 degree heavy drizzle (fortunately we did have a tent). After another excellent dinner in the Ironhorse restaurant, our group was treated to the Silver Meteor passing through as we left - at a speed far exceeding that allowed through town. One was amazed that passenger trains still operated to Florida.
After 5 on time LD trains in the past month, my string was broken on the return. No. 89 was delayed, according to the conductor, for track and signal problems in Alexandria and Fredericksburg and waiting for connecting passengers in Richmond. That third track Washington to Richmond can't come too soon. And this was a Sunday when local freights and commuter trains are absent. We waited in Richmond for about twenty minutes for a late Boston train from Newport News. It was trapped behind a broken rail near Main St. station for over 2 hours.
Fortunately there were no further delays south of Richmond in that CSX Bermuda triangle area, so we slowly gained time on our 1 hour 30 minute late Richmond departure. The trip south was uneventful as most in our car seemed to be dozing off the effects of the weekend, as was I.
The train consist was the same with most passengers leaving at Fayetteville and Florence. The train appeared to be only 10% full as it left Florence. I believe the Palmetto would carry many more passenger if it was extended back to Jacksonville, or maybe Orlando.
Arrival back in Florence was a little over one hour late. It certainly beat I-95 on that rainy weekend and, as I heard several passengers say, it was cheaper for them than a couple tankfuls of gas.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Wouldn't it be nice if the Palmetto and/or Carolinian made a station stop in Ashland as well? You could have stayed at the Henry Clay and walked everywhere you needed to be.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: Great report Palmland, thanks.
Wouldn't it be nice if the Palmetto and/or Carolinian made a station stop in Ashland as well? You could have stayed at the Henry Clay and walked everywhere you needed to be.
So true, David, but I suspect most Ashalnd passengers are heading north. But it would be nice if at least one of the trains heading south made the stop. I suspect that will be even less likely when when another stop is added at Main St. station.
Amtrak would not sell me a through ticket with only a 45 min. connection in Richmond. While I could have gotten two separate ones, it was just easier to have one of my buddies pick me up. They are all faintly amused by my taking the train all the time, but, by now, are used to it.
According to the conductor, 32 boarded at Florence. For the first time I can recall, they boarded at two doors. One was for those heading to points north of Richmond and the other, including me, was for Richmond and southern destinations. Fully 3/4 were headed for Washington and beyond.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
In the mid-90's the Palmetto became the Silver Palm terminating in Tampa for awhile.....and then was briefly discontinued for a couple of years until returning as a train through to Miami.
No particular point in that I was aboard the next to last southbound Silver Palm Richmond to Fayetteville with a very surly crew as the entire on-board staff of that train was on the unemployment line as soon as that particular run terminated.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: ....as the entire on-board staff of that train was on the unemployment line as soon as that particular run terminated.
Mr. Presley, may the one with Class I Labor Relations experience around here revise your quoted statement?
.....as the entire on-board staff of that train was confronted with abolishment of their positions as soon as that particular run terminated. They likely all were aware that the "bid and bump' process is no fun for anyone "younger" in seniority than the "oldest" being displaced - and somebody, likely a new hire on the extra board, is looking at the unemploymwent line.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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With discontinuance for the Silver Palm of that era looming, on-board employees with sufficient seniority (and mobility) had recently bid into assignments on other southeastern trains (notably the Star, Meteor, Carolinian and Crescent). Those remaining for the lame-duck Silver Palm were a dejected smattering of 'newest hired' and 'extra board' folks.
Thinking he might have sufficient seniority to survive, I asked my coach attendant what he anticipated his 'next line' would and he snorted "My next line is the unemployment line. I'm going to sign up tomorrow afternoon if we're on-time in the morning."
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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If any kind of a position, be it Op or Non-op, is in jeopardy, any "old head" holding such will bid off so at the end when the jobs are actually abolished, the "young' holding, and likely "forced assigned" to, such at the end could well be looking at unemployment.
There was a saying on the railroad, well at least my railroad, that if you bid on a job, you have thirty days in which to qualify, if you "bump' into a job, consider yourself lucky if you have eight HOURS in which to do so.
Obviously, to bump in can cause animosity amongst co-workers - and to management, considerable loss of productivity.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Great trip report. I heard that they are studying reinstating passenger service down the FEC, so maybe they might extend the Palmetto, to Miami.
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
That is the Florida East Coast Railway, a line extending from Jacksonville to Miami roundly paralleling I-95. This railroad reportedly is quite profitable hauling high value export/import traffic handled at Port Everglades and Miami.
The line last hosted a through passenger train during January 1963. The last passenger train of any kind during 1968. Despite the line having been passenger train free well before A-Day, "there's been talk' on any a number of occasions regarding an Amtrak passenger train, and even a Tri-Rail commuter train being routed over their rails.
posted
I'm hoping they do reinstate Amtrak thru there, it would make the run a lot faster, and maybe that could help draw some new riders. Specially the Daytona travelers. Not to mention it is all double track I think, so Amtrak wouldn't be delayed that much.
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Mr. Amtrak 92 (from Elgin SC on the Seaboard MP 344.7 about twenty rail miles North of Columbia and on the perimeter of Fort Jackson), any diversion of service away from the Rodent and his Court Jesters, i.e. Orlando, would be counterproductive. Localities along the Coast can be served by Ambus from Orlando should traffic warrant.
Additional LD service such as a third frequency, Silver Palm, routed via FEC? 'don't think so". First, the Florida convention and tourism industry does not foresee their interests enhanced by additional rail service, Secondly, there is no Florida legislator with a large enough "political chip' to cash in with 1600, such as will be the case with Sen. Baucus (D-MT) should he deliver Health Care legislation that the President wants. If Sen. Baucus thinks that chip is a restored North Coast Limited, it will happen, but then there is no assurance his chip will be railroad, let alone railroad passenger, related.
Finally, despite some bravura to the effect of "we're ready to work with any responsible party...." from FEC management, I'd lay my wager that the less they see of a passenger train interfering with their timetabled freight operations, the happier they be.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Your very smart you pinned me down with no trouble. Yeah it might take trafic from my home line. I agree there is no political chip in florida good enough for it, but we can hope.
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I'm not so sure we should dismiss passenger rail on the FEC. But maybe it shouldn't be Amtrak.
After spending a week south of Cocoa Beach last spring, I was surprised at the population density (not to mention traffic) for Florida's central coast. Except for Canaveral National Seashore, Merritt Air Force Base, and NASA it's nonstop developments all the way down to Palm Beach.
Florida should be making the case for intrastate service. If it makes sense in NC, it certainly does in Florida. Connecting state supported trains in Jacksonville with Amtrak would be a better option than trying to have Amtrak do it all.
Now, given the political realities of that state, the electorate is going to have to make a change at the polls for that to happen.
Aside from that option, Amtrak using the FEC doesn't mean there has to be three trains to FL, which is admittedly a stretch (although I'm still rooting for the Palmetto extension back to Jax).
Go back to the original schedule that worked well for many years. Let the Meteor split in Jax. The main section would go to Miami, but over the FEC. The other smaller section would run via Orlando and terminate in Tampa (cafe/lounge, 1 sleeper). The Star would be primarily a Orlando train but continue directly to Miami on CSX. I'll bet this scenario would improve equipment utilization so that minimal additional cars in the loop would be required. If the state wants to fund a Tampa - Miami train, great.
The Class 1 railroads seemed to have figured out that it pays to be nice about running passenger trains, as long as the fedi-bucks are there. I think the FEC would be all too glad to have their hand out.
I'm also not sure passenger would be such a burden. Consider that outside of an occasional mineral train from one of the quarries, it's primarly a scheduled intermodal railroad, as GBN indicated, without slow moving coal drags or grain trains. A one a day passenger shouldn't be a big deal if it was slotted on the markers of an intermodal.
If ever there was a railroad suited for passenger trains, it would be the FEC with its nice level tangent track and right of way that is waiting for the double track to be relaid.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Florida should be making the case for intrastate service. If it makes sense in NC, it certainly does in Florida. Connecting state supported trains in Jacksonville with Amtrak would be a better option than trying to have Amtrak do it all.
One major difference: North Carolina owns the railroad. NS is the leasee.
quote:Originally posted by palmland: I'm also not sure passenger would be such a burden. Consider that outside of an occasional mineral train from one of the quarries, it's primarly a scheduled intermodal railroad, as GBN indicated, without slow moving coal drags or grain trains. A one a day passenger shouldn't be a big deal if it was slotted on the markers of an intermodal.
If ever there was a railroad suited for passenger trains, it would be the FEC with its nice level tangent track and right of way that is waiting for the double track to be relaid.
Unfortunately, the last paragraph is somewhat simplistic. There are paltforms, stations ro shelters, control of pedestrian access, etc to consider.
Also, unless the passenger train is truly on the blocks of the intermodal, or visa versa, so that they are in the same siding at meets, there will be the need for additonal sidings, ro addtion of sections of second main.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Not to mention somewhere I heard that the FEC is a nighttime railroad. I can't remember where that was. If Amtrak would run on it, it would probably be a daytime train
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I read somewhere today, that in 2012 they are planing to split both the Star and the Meteor in Jacksonville, and run half to Tampa, via the current route, and the Miami section is going to use the FEC, and so will some new corridor service.
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Perhaps one of the two trains would operate the Miami section via Winter Haven and the Tampa section via Ocala.
Thus you would have
1 Amtrak RT on the FEC 1 Amtrak RT on the former ACL through Ocala 1 Amtrak RT serving Lakeland 1 other Amtrak RT serving Winter Haven 3 Amtrak RT's via Orlando.
Or you could go with the plan as stated by Star92 and add a single state supported RT Tampa to Miami to maintain Winter Haven service.
Just some thoughts.
Ohhhhhh..... and my hopes of getting up to ride the Adirondack have been scotched......
As a consolation I'll be getting a Winter Park - Miami RT Novemeber 8 and 9. Looking forward to getting onboard a train 'somewhere'.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
David, in November, I believe I'd pick FL over upstate NY. Might be fun to check out Tri-Rail and I think Miami light rail now goes to the airport?
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: David, in November, I believe I'd pick FL over upstate NY. Might be fun to check out Tri-Rail and I think Miami light rail now goes to the airport?
I understand that construction has begun on a new terminal adjacent to the Miami Airport. Tri-Rail trains are already stopping at a platform there but ultimately Amtrak and Miami's metro will serve the station. There will be either a people mover or moving sidewalk to move folks to the airport.....
Anyway, I'm curious to see what's going on. I've not been to the Miami airport since 1987 and I've never ridden Tri-Rail....... something that I'll check out the morning of the 9th while waiting for #92 to depart.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I'm pretty sure they are going to do something at least as far north as Stewart (huge population density up to here). It might just be Tri-Rail extension, but they are talking Amtrak thru to JAX. I guess it all depends on any monies FL will put up.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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